'Google pays Web pioneer to bash Apple'

[niuniu]

According to Venturebeat,

http://venturebeat.com/2010/03/15/google-tim-bray/

Tim Bray isn’t as well-known as Sir Tim Berners-Lee, but the guy has had a leading role in defining the Internet. His name tops the list of editors on the official specs for the Internet’s XML language, the basic building block for all Web pages.

Bray can be entertainingly cranky, but it was off-putting today to read his blog post announcing his new job as an evangelist to software developers for Google’s Android platform. He wasted only a couple of paragraphs before getting to his point: Apple sucks.

“The iPhone vision of the mobile Internet’s future omits controversy, sex, and freedom, but includes strict limits on who can know what and who can say what. It’s a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers. The people who create the apps serve at the landlord’s pleasure and fear his anger.

“I hate it.”

The problem with this post is obvious: He praises the Web as “the first-ever platform without a vendor,” yet Bray has taken a job as spokesman for Google, a vendor. The company sells the Nexus One phone that runs on the open-source Android platform he admires.

Google is also in an escalating business battle with Apple. Google and Apple’s CEOs went from best buddies in August 2006 to open enemies in August 2009, demonstrating a key problem with the vendors Bray doesn’t want to control the Internet. Vendors pledge to do one thing, then go against their word when the winds of cash flow change direction.

And at this point in his career, Bray also knows that whenever techies disagree with someone, they look for the money strings to discredit the other side. He probably thinks he’s taken a lot of guff over the years as a steward of the complicated XML standard, but the Apple fanboy army will now simplify things for him: He’s a shill for Google.

In his first post as a Google employee, Bray brags that he gets to say whatever he wants on his blog. Yet he also admits the post was pre-screened by Google PR. They “didn’t suggest any changes,” he writes. Of course they didn’t, Tim. Apple is a sterile Disney-fied walled garden blah blah lawyers is exactly what they're paying for.

 

[rhett7660]

After reading this, he sounds like a complete ass. His tone is very sarcastic and seething, not just because he pushing utter crap:

“The iPhone vision of the mobile Internet’s future omits controversy, sex, and freedom, but includes strict limits on who can know what and who can say what. It’s a sterile Disney-fied walled garden surrounded by sharp-toothed lawyers. The people who create the apps serve at the landlord’s pleasure and fear his anger.

“I hate it.”

You know, because you can't go to any of those sites with the browser..... Please.

 

[Melrose]

He's not getting the spotlight Tim has, so he's going for the next best thing: Controversy. Bash a company that's incredibly popular and suddenly you'll be the stuff of tech blogs again. He should just stand on his own legs, keep his dignity intact, and keep working hard trying to further this idealistic view he has of a completely utopian internet, not going around showboating. It's business, not Xanadu; Companies, including Apple and his precious Google, are out to make money. Period. What did he think?

...and Google's no great hero of freedom either. The information they gather about every one of their users, just so they can target advertising to make more money-- yeah, that's completely open, fair, and not at all Big Brother like. If the government did that, even if it were for different reasons (eg, security), people would have a hernia.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

He's not getting the spotlight Tim has, so he's going for the next best thing: Controversy. Bash a company that's incredibly popular and suddenly you'll be the stuff of tech blogs again. He should just stand on his own legs, keep his dignity intact, and keep working hard trying to further this idealistic view he has of a completely utopian internet, not going around showboating. It's business, not Xanadu; Companies, including Apple and his precious Google, are out to make money. Period. What did he think?

...and Google's no great hero of freedom either. The information they gather about every one of their users, just so they can target advertising to make more money-- yeah, that's completely open, fair, and not at all Big Brother like. If the government did that, even if it were for different reasons (eg, security), people would have a hernia.

But the government does do that.

As for the tech blogger he seems like a lot of tech geeks to me. Tech geeks oposise sensor ship on the internet and software. Apple is the king of sensor ship and software when it comes to smart phones.

Just look at the complaints here about the lack of loading apps from places other than the App store, and the complete lack of customizing the iPhone. You can change the ring tone and get limited alert sounds for everything else. Only get APPLE approved apps. Apple tells you what is best and so on.

 

[niuniu]

His views have some validity, but so do most people's tech views whether you agree with them or not. I was just surprised at the tone of the thing, it felt like I was reading a scathing rant from a late teen, not a tech professional. I'd be surprised if contrary to Venturebeat's opinion that he was paid for this, that Google doesn't actually come down on him and ask him to reel it in a bit. It can't reflect well on them to have a Maddox on the loose in the long term.

 

[DaveSW]

I wonder what he thinks about this.

Despite Tough Talk, Google Still Censoring in China

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_still_censoring_in_china.php

FOUR years of chinese censorship.

 

[Abstract]

You know, because you can't go to any of those sites with the browser..... Please.

He's probably referring to "app approval" by Apple.

I agree with the bolded paragraph, to be honest. This article, along with this author, may deserve some criticism as well, but that doesn't make what he said above (in bold) any more invalid. It's true.

On the other hand, if you knew this already, you don't need to get an iPhone. It's a free market. Don't like Apple's ridiculousness? Buy a phone from another company. There may not have been good alternatives before, but there are certainly some great alternatives today.

 

[*LTD*]

Google can pay anyone to bash Apple. Makes no difference. The proof is in the Apple pudding. Apple products speak for themselves.

No one for the last decade has bashed Apple successfully. Too late for that now, unless Apple creates its own disaster. Good luck.

 

[Full of Win]

Actually, it sounds about right. The only thing I would add is there is a exit to the so-called 'walled garden'. Apple does not force any user or dev in, and you are free to leave at any time.

 

[mmfphotodude]

Thats just kinda... LOW, especially for Google

 

[DaveSW]

Thats just kinda... LOW, especially for Google

Well, they've been doing this for FOUR years. The lowest of the low.



Despite Tough Talk, Google Still Censoring in China

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_still_censoring_in_china.php

FOUR years of chinese censorship.

 

[ChazUK]

Well, they've been doing this for FOUR years. The lowest of the low.



Despite Tough Talk, Google Still Censoring in China

http://www.readwriteweb.com/archives/google_still_censoring_in_china.php

FOUR years of chinese censorship.

Dali Lama apps on iPhone in China? Looks like the Chinese government wouldn't approve.

At least apple didn't back down by excluding wifi in their iPhones, did they. D-d-did they?


<Vader>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo...........

 

[Consultant]

This fudster fails to notice Apple iPhone's mobile Safari is the most Acid3 compliant mobile browser.

 

[DaveSW]

Dali Lama apps on iPhone in China? Looks like the Chinese government wouldn't approve.

At least apple didn't back down by excluding wifi in their iPhones, did they. D-d-did they?


<Vader>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo...........

Nobody cares about that stupid app.

Censoring search results -- EVIL

 

[pdjudd]

Dali Lama apps on iPhone in China? Looks like the Chinese government wouldn't approve.

At least apple didn't back down by excluding wifi in their iPhones, did they. D-d-did they?


<Vader>NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOooooooooooooooooo...........

Wifi is hardware - and if memory serves, was a choice that was out of Apple's hands at the time. Not that it mattered anyway, you would just get to the same filtered internet anyway. Way different than actually filtering the internet. Apple's safari browser operates the same no matter where you are located. What Google did in China is a mountain. Apple's omission of Wi-fi was more of a mole hill.

 

[ChazUK]

Wifi is hardware - and if memory serves, was a choice that was out of Apple's hands at the time.

Out of Apple's hands and enforced by whom exactly?

Not that it mattered anyway, you would just get to the same filtered internet anyway. Way different than actually filtering the internet. Apple's safari browser operates the same no matter where you are located. What Google did in China is a mountain. Apple's omission of Wi-fi was more of a mole hill.

Very nice. Now, what about those Dali Lama apps?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/185604/apple_censors_dalai_lama_iphone_apps_in_china.html

Apple appears to have blocked iPhone applications related to the Dalai Lama in its China App Store, making it the latest U.S. technology company to censor its services in China.

The tyranny!

 

[rhett7660]

He's probably referring to "app approval" by Apple.

I agree with the bolded paragraph, to be honest. This article, along with this author, may deserve some criticism as well, but that doesn't make what he said above (in bold) any more invalid. It's true.

On the other hand, if you knew this already, you don't need to get an iPhone. It's a free market. Don't like Apple's ridiculousness? Buy a phone from another company. There may not have been good alternatives before, but there are certainly some great alternatives today.

I know that is what he is talking about, but he doesn't make that clear. If you read it at face value all he saying is apple won't let you do it period. He total neglects the fact you can do all the above via the browser.

 

[pdjudd]

Out of Apple's hands and enforced by whom exactly?

I presume the telecom. I cannot say for sure though.

Very nice. Now, what about those Dali Lama apps?
http://www.pcworld.com/article/185604/apple_censors_dalai_lama_iphone_apps_in_china.html


The tyranny!

Read your own link. "Appears" is just speculation on the behalf of the author. Furthermore it is irrelevant since I was not in any way talking about Apps - I was talking about Mobile safari and the Web - all of which is filtered beyond Apple's control since they don't provide web services like search.

Nobody questions that the app store is censored. That is not the point of my posting however.

 

[ChazUK]

I presume the telecom. I cannot say for sure though.

This is the best I can dig up: Source

The official iPhone heading to China isn’t exactly the same as the ones we see here: Apple removed Wi-Fi hardware from its iPhones for China Unicom to comply with Chinese government standards. Why? The history behind China’s Wi-Fi regulation on smartphones is controversial and complicated. For years, the country has been trying to push tech companies to adopt its own wireless encryption standard called Wireless Authentication and Privacy Infrastructure (WAPI), which competes with the Wi-Fi (IEEE 802.11) standard.

Looks like the Chinese Government trying to push quite a controversial standard onto the Chinese population.

Mobile phones in China are controlled by MIIT.

Can this be seen as an Apple backdown to the Chinese government at all?

 

[pdjudd]

Can this be seen as an Apple backdown to the Chinese government at all?

Well according to your link it says:

The Ministry of Industry and Information Technology is not responsible for the regulation of content for the media industry.

So content censoring is not the issue here like it would be with Google. The MIIT sounds like it deals with regulation of electronics and information services beyond what the FCC does. It's not a censorship group though. Sounds like they just determine what devices can operate and what cannot.

As far as dropping Wi-fi, it seems as though the intent was to simply avoid additional manufacturing costs to implement non-standard technology that Apple didn't want to deal with.

ETA: A disclaimer, all of this is just my interpretation since I am not a Chinese government expert and have little idea what divisions interact together in any way.

 

[yg17]

Nobody cares about that stupid app.

Censoring search results -- EVIL

I'm sure the Tibetans who are being opressed by the Chinese government care about that stupid app

But it's OK, just put your hands over your ears and pretend the world is perfect because you have your iPhone.

 

[pdjudd]

I'm sure the Tibetans who are being opressed by the Chinese government care about that stupid app

But it's OK, just put your hands over your ears and pretend the world is perfect because you have your iPhone.

Lets not bring in political discussions into this please. This is not the place for it and it's just distracting, not to mention besides the subject.

 

[ChazUK]

ETA: A disclaimer, all of this is just my interpretation since I am not a Chinese government expert and have little idea what divisions interact together in any way.

Me neither, but I'm enjoying the discussion.

 

[surferfromuk]

Alta-Vista was the biggest search engine in the world in 2000 - by 2002 they were practically extinct.

Search loyalty is very fickle thing. It is sensitively related to the users perception of integrity and trust.

Right now I'm seriously concerned that my life's searches are in the hands of a company whom I now realise I know very little about and whose ethics have suddenly been revealed to be quite contrary to those I had been led to believe in.

Put simply - I suddenly realise that I don't trust Google anywhere near as much as I trust Apple.

 

[str1f3]

The curious thing about his statement is that this guy has worked on web standards such as CSS. Apple is not trying to interrupt open standards and is merely controlling the App Store. They are not trying to control the web.

He is making himself seem an ass. If all he's got left in him is rhetoric, than it was a poor hire for Google.