Google Pixel Event: @16m.16s in: The spec race is over.

[Puddled]

Rick Osterloh:

"The playing field for hardware components is levelling off.......Core features are Table stakes now...... Moore's law and Dennard scaling are ideas from the past"

I found this particular comment during the event very striking and i am surprised it hasn't got more attention tbh. It is a huge statement on the current and future state of mobile phone tech.

I found the whole event a flag flying exercise for this comment. Google are not focusing on tech specs. Google isn't about what you have, it is about what you can do with it. I was struck by the lack of focus on the hardware and how much was thrown into the software/AI/ML aspects and abilities.

Indeed, the Pixels are not spectacular exercises in manufacturing abilities. they are good, but no real difference from the other mid-upper range phones in the market really.

I would think Samsung and Apple will take a keen interest in this event and the future it is predicting.

Honestly, i look at my S6 and the iphone 8 and wonder where the the 2 years of progress between the models actually is.

 

[AustinIllini]

The problem is, Google and Apple have the the luxury of ignoring spes because they basically own the software.

 

[JaySoul]

Great thread, must admit I missed that part of the presentation.

Tbh I think he's right and Google's focus on computational software is fascinating. These lenses that all manufacturers are using are fantastic, the different is how you use it in conjunction with chip, ISP, software etc.

Extrapolate that into the whole phone/services then he's right. I mean the A11 chip is insane, but to what end? It's overkill for 99% of people. Ditto 6GB RAM.

The truth is most people don't care about these things, they care about the huge distance between Google Assistant and Siri. They care about cameras. They care about running out of storage.

This is where I feel Google will catch up, and eventually overtake Apple (via Android One etc) over the next decade.

 

[AustinIllini]

Great thread, must admit I missed that part of the presentation.

Tbh I think he's right and Google's focus on computational software is fascinating. These lenses that all manufacturers are using are fantastic, the different is how you use it in conjunction with chip, ISP, software etc.

Extrapolate that into the whole phone/services then he's right. I mean the A11 chip is insane, but to what end? It's overkill for 99% of people. Ditto 6GB RAM.

The truth is most people don't care about these things, they care about the huge distance between Google Assistant and Siri. They care about cameras. They care about running out of storage.

This is where I feel Google will catch up, and eventually overtake Apple (via Android One etc) over the next decade.

The reason I think it matters more than you think, though is Apple has committed to "privacy". That means Apple has to push the envelope on processing ability because Apple's "AI" is done almost entirely on device.

Yeah, Assistant is a lot better than Siri because Assistant lives in the cloud.

 

[5105973]

Well I think Apple was always preaching that message, but the problem is they seem to be forgetting aspects of it. They’ve introduced an amazing processor in my IPhone 7 Plus and an even more amazing processor in the 2017 IPhones. We’ve got desktop class power in our hands, or so I’m told.

But functionally my iPhone 7 Plus is performing most of the same tasks my iPhones have since about iPhone 5.

It’s now with AR that I’m starting to see something different. Apple fell asleep at the wheel with AI. I know Siri is fluent in the most languages or something like that, but she doesn’t understand my very clear unaccented English a lot of the time. And what’s worse, she used to. So to me Siri’s taken a big step back.
[doublepost=1507295643][/doublepost]

Great thread, must admit I missed that part of the presentation.

Tbh I think he's right and Google's focus on computational software is fascinating. These lenses that all manufacturers are using are fantastic, the different is how you use it in conjunction with chip, ISP, software etc.

Extrapolate that into the whole phone/services then he's right. I mean the A11 chip is insane, but to what end? It's overkill for 99% of people. Ditto 6GB RAM.

The truth is most people don't care about these things, they care about the huge distance between Google Assistant and Siri. They care about cameras. They care about running out of storage.

This is where I feel Google will catch up, and eventually overtake Apple (via Android One etc) over the next decade.

Ah, you beat me to it. I just said the same thing. Lol, that’s what happens around here some mornings when I try to post and a kid needs something. Ah well, good morning y’all,

 

[AustinIllini]

Well I think Apple was always preaching that message, but the problem is they seem to be forgetting aspects of it. They’ve introduced an amazing processor in my IPhone 7 Plus and an even more amazing processor in the 2017 IPhones. We’ve got desktop class power in our hands, or so I’m told.

But functionally my iPhone 7 Plus is performing most of the same tasks my iPhones have since about iPhone 5.

It’s now with AR that I’m starting to see something different. Apple fell asleep at the wheel with AI. I know Siri is fluent in the most languages or something like that, but she doesn’t understand my very clear unaccented English a lot of the time. And what’s worse, she used to. So to me Siri’s taken a big step back.

Apple has always been asleep when it comes to services. Apple mail sucks, Siri sucks, Calendar kind of sucks, iCloud Drive sucks, and Apple Music is good for content/poor for design. The only good Apple services are iMessage (Which I will miss as I move to Android) and Maps (which is still better on Google's version)

Apple hits a homerun with hardware but as phones become black slabs with screens, they have to innovate in other ways. By and large they have failed on that front.

 

[ultravisitor]

Google's focus has been on software and services for a while, dating back at least to the Moto X. There's been a lot of argument about it in the Android community because some of the OEMs and their fans feel like MOARCORES is the way, the truth, and the light, AMEN, and others are like, "Um, these phones are all pretty powerful. How about we focus on experience rather than simply filling up the phone with the latest hardware and un-optimized software?" Focusing on the experience has typically been something that Apple is good at but that Android OEMs aren't as good at.

I mean, really: how much RAM do we honestly need in our phones? Personally, I'm not trying to run a server for 750 people out of my pocket, so...

 

[5105973]

Apple has always been asleep when it comes to services. Apple mail sucks, Siri sucks, Calendar kind of sucks, iCloud Drive sucks, and Apple Music is good for content/poor for design.

Apple hits a homerun with hardware but as phones become black slabs with screens, they have to innovate in other ways. By and large they have failed on that front.

Just a quick question because you’re not the only one who has said so—how does Apple mail suck? I do a lot of my mail on my Samsung app but I don’t mind the one on my iPhone when I need to use it. Though there have been some emails that came in from merchants on Amazon that I could not read because the were mashed up with graphics running over text. I could see them in my Samsung Mail app, though. Is that the sort of thing you’re referring to?

 

[AustinIllini]

Google's focus has been on software and services for a while, dating back at least to the Moto X. There's been a lot of argument about it in the Android community because some of the OEMs and their fans feel like MOARCORES is the way, the truth, and the light, AMEN, and others are like, "Um, these phones are all pretty powerful. How about we focus on experience rather than simply filling up the phone with the latest hardware and un-optimized software?" Focusing on the experience has typically been something that Apple is good at but that Android OEMs aren't as good at.

I mean, really: how much RAM do we honestly need in our phones? Personally, I'm not trying to run a server for 750 people out of my pocket, so...

Right. At some point the screen can't accommodate the level of multitasking multi-core processors enable.
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Just a quick question because you’re not the only one who has said so—how does Apple mail suck? I do a lot of my mail on my Samsung app but I don’t mind the one on my iPhone when I need to use it. Though there have been some emails that came in from merchants on Amazon that I could not read because the were mashed up with graphics running over text. I could see them in my Samsung Mail app, though. Is that the sort of thing you’re referring to?

I should clarify. The app is fine. It's a big meh. They change the way it's organized sometimes which drives me insane, but the app is fine. What's not fine is the me.com/icloud.com email service. It's horrible and buggy and spammy.

 

[JaySoul]

The reason I think it matters more than you think, though is Apple has committed to "privacy". That means Apple has to push the envelope on processing ability because Apple's "AI" is done almost entirely on device.

Yeah, Assistant is a lot better than Siri because Assistant lives in the cloud.

I think that's the excuse Apple trot out for certain things. It's relevant for some stuff, but not others.

For example, Siri vs Google Assistant: speech recognition is now at 95% success rate on GA. That's better than HUMANS, apparently! (Certainly better than my Dad with his hearing aid).

Now, you could say "Well, that's because they want your data" but when it comes with a vastly superior service, is that a trade off worth (knowingly) making?

It's a matter of personal preference. I'm starting to use Facebook less and less (because they are snooping on me more and more without enough of a benefit).

I appreciate certain things Apple do, but a lot of it is for profiteering - e.g. storage configurations/iCloud etc.

It's a complex issue but Google is getting further ahead.

 

[Suckfest 9001]

The reason I think it matters more than you think, though is Apple has committed to "privacy". That means Apple has to push the envelope on processing ability because Apple's "AI" is done almost entirely on device.

Yeah, Assistant is a lot better than Siri because Assistant lives in the cloud.

That's not really true at all. Siri's AI is entirely cloud-based. The only processing that happens on-device is detecting contacts in emails and giving you app suggestions and other simple stuff like that.

 

[jamezr]

Rick Osterloh:




I found this particular comment during the event very striking and i am surprised it hasn't got more attention tbh. It is a huge statement on the current and future state of mobile phone tech.

I found the whole event a flag flying exercise for this comment. Google are not focusing on tech specs. Google isn't about what you have, it is about what you can do with it. I was struck by the lack of focus on the hardware and how much was thrown into the software/AI/ML aspects and abilities.

Indeed, the Pixels are not spectacular exercises in manufacturing abilities. they are good, but no real difference from the other mid-upper range phones in the market really.

I would think Samsung and Apple will take a keen interest in this event and the future it is predicting.

Honestly, i look at my S6 and the iphone 8 and wonder where the the 2 years of progress between the models actually is.

I agree...the whole benchmarks race or specs race or speed tests race videos are soo useless and pointless.

Google gets it with last years Pixel and this years models as well.

It is all about the user experience

Everything else takes a back seat! Specs or benchmarks do not mean much if the user experience suffers as a result of those specs and benchmarks.

 

[JaySoul]

That's not really true at all. Siri's AI is entirely cloud-based. The only processing that happens on-device is detecting contacts in emails and giving you app suggestions and other simple stuff like that.

I think maybe they are talking about the data being stored locally as opposed to ultimately handed over and mined.

 

[Rum_Becker]

Extrapolate that into the whole phone/services then he's right. I mean the A11 chip is insane, but to what end? It's overkill for 99% of people. Ditto 6GB RAM.

The 2015 A9 chip is my iPhone SE destroys the chip in my 2017 Samsung A5, but I don't really care. When I bought my google home, I tried to use it with my SE but it sucked so I picked up my A5 and its works great. The only thing I miss from my SE is iMessage and the camera.

 

[I7guy]

Great thread, must admit I missed that part of the presentation.

Tbh I think he's right and Google's focus on computational software is fascinating. These lenses that all manufacturers are using are fantastic, the different is how you use it in conjunction with chip, ISP, software etc.

Extrapolate that into the whole phone/services then he's right. I mean the A11 chip is insane, but to what end? It's overkill for 99% of people. Ditto 6GB RAM.

The truth is most people don't care about these things, they care about the huge distance between Google Assistant and Siri. They care about cameras. They care about running out of storage.

This is where I feel Google will catch up, and eventually overtake Apple (via Android One etc) over the next decade.

I can’t say everybody cares about google assistant or Siri or cameras to the extent their thinking about the way their smartphone phone use is altered. My use case, I don’t and

But that computational software is where high powered chips are going to make the difference, the race is clearly on though.
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Rick Osterloh:




I found this particular comment during the event very striking and i am surprised it hasn't got more attention tbh. It is a huge statement on the current and future state of mobile phone tech.

I found the whole event a flag flying exercise for this comment. Google are not focusing on tech specs. Google isn't about what you have, it is about what you can do with it. I was struck by the lack of focus on the hardware and how much was thrown into the software/AI/ML aspects and abilities.

Indeed, the Pixels are not spectacular exercises in manufacturing abilities. they are good, but no real difference from the other mid-upper range phones in the market really.

I would think Samsung and Apple will take a keen interest in this event and the future it is predicting.

Honestly, i look at my S6 and the iphone 8 and wonder where the the 2 years of progress between the models actually is.

I thought Moore’s law was gone 10 years ago and Samsung and Apple both are in that type of mindset. However it Appear to be a truism that software lags hardware.

 

[Technarchy]

I agree...the whole benchmarks race or specs race or speed tests race videos are soo useless and pointless.

Google gets it with last years Pixel and this years models as well.

It is all about the user experience

Everything else takes a back seat! Specs or benchmarks do not mean much if the user experience suffers as a result of those specs and benchmarks.

I don’t think Apple’s processors are being pushed to new heights of performance for simple bragging rights.

It’s pretty clear Apple is working toward something. It’s not apparent to the public yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple released a new product line around their A Series of processors in the next 5 years.

 

[Rum_Becker]

I don’t think Apple’s processors are being pushed to new heights of performance for simple bragging rights.

It’s pretty clear Apple is working toward something. It’s not apparent to the public yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple released a new product line around their A Series of processors in the next 5 years.

Not sure about a new product line, but I could see Macs ditching x86. 99% of my computer use is in Chrome, so my next laptop will be a chromebook.

 

[jamezr]

I don’t think Apple’s processors are being pushed to new heights of performance for simple bragging rights.

It’s pretty clear Apple is working toward something. It’s not apparent to the public yet but I wouldn’t be surprised if Apple released a new product line around their A Series of processors in the next 5 years.

If they move away from the x86 architecture they will lose all the people who want to dual boot windows.

 

[Technarchy]

If they move away from the x86 architecture they will lose all the people who want to dual boot windows.

I don’t see Tim Cook being too concerned with Windows users.

Though I can see Apple switching over the MacBook Air or 12” MacBook into an A processor based platform, and just using X86 on the MacBook Pro.

Or beefing up Apple TV into something more. Maybe focus more on the gaming capabilities.

Either way, the A Series is a surely destined for greater things.

 

[Rum_Becker]

If they move away from the x86 architecture they will lose all the people who want to dual boot windows.

And Apple would not care one bit.

 

[Michael Goff]

If they move away from the x86 architecture they will lose all the people who want to dual boot windows.

Not necessarily. Microsoft is making Windows run on ARM. All Apple has to do is work with Microsoft to let them run on Apple’s chips and for people to be able to buy that version through

 

[Rum_Becker]

Not necessarily. Microsoft is making Windows run on ARM. All Apple has to do is work with Microsoft to let them run on Apple’s chips and for people to be able to buy that version through

If Apple and Microsoft worked together, they could rock up the entire industry. Apple gives A chips to Microsoft and Microsoft builds office and Enterprise apps for their new OS. Intel would get the biggest shaft and Google (Chrome OS) would have to work hard against these new Apple and Microsoft products.

I think X86 would be relegated to a small niche market kinda like how dedicated Graphics cards are today.

 

[dallas112678]

Honestly, it's been this way for awhile now. It's not even necessarily that hardware won't continue to get better, it's just that current software doesn't actually keep up with the current hardware.

You can look at the a11 for example, apple likes to advertise that it's stronger than processors in laptops, but what software on iOS is remotely complex enough to take advantage of all that power? None.

 

[kawalerzysta]

Not sure about a new product line, but I could see Macs ditching x86. 99% of my computer use is in Chrome, so my next laptop will be a chromebook.

I agree. I have gaming PC that I just use for gaming. For everyday use, I have Samsung Chromebook Plus with ARM processor and it does all I need. And it looks that Microsoft and Qualcomm working together to have Windows run on Snapdragon processors. Apple will probably do the same with their A chips. In near future it will not be surprising if most of laptops for home and school use will have ARM processors.

 

[jamezr]

I don’t see Tim Cook being too concerned with Windows users.

Though I can see Apple switching over the MacBook Air or 12” MacBook into an A processor based platform, and just using X86 on the MacBook Pro.

Or beefing up Apple TV into something more. Maybe focus more on the gaming capabilities.

Either way, the A Series is a surely destined for greater things.

I am not so sure about that. Historically MBP sales skyrocketed when the went to Intel chips. It was a huge selling point for them.
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If Apple and Microsoft worked together, they could rock up the entire industry. Apple gives A chips to Microsoft and Microsoft builds office and Enterprise apps for their new OS. Intel would get the biggest shaft and Google (Chrome OS) would have to work hard against these new Apple and Microsoft products.

I think X86 would be relegated to a small niche market kinda like how dedicated Graphics cards are today.

I don't ever see that happening to be honest......
If that was a viable option they would have done it by now.