Got my new Mac Pro but..

[GrBear]

Ok, so I had my G4 Sawtooth for 7 years and finally took the plunge into upgrading. I ran 10.3 on it, and in the all the years I've been running OS X (started with the original store bought beta version), I had ONE single kernal panic in all that time, and that was with the beta.

The Mac Pro is a work of art.. but..

When I got it home, I transfered over all my data, downloaded the latest versions of all my software, and I started installing stuff. I was playing iTunes, crash.. Ok, fine, played a stream via VLC, crash..

In the course of 24 hours, I managed to have 5 complete "hold power button down to reboot" crashes.

My mate says ever since upgrading to 10.4 he's had ALOT or random crashes on both his G5 and Powerbook G4. Is this normal? Is 10.3 that much of a POS that it randomly crashes for no apparent reason? It's never the same program that crashes, never the same time being on or memory being filled. Before I go buy a ram testing program to verify it's not that, I wanted to get opinions on if people have noticed much higher frequencies of crashes with 10.4 because frankly this is so unMaclike.

 

[roland.g]

Ok, so I had my G4 Sawtooth for 7 years and finally took the plunge into upgrading. I ran 10.2 on it, and in the all the years I've been running OS X (started with the original store bought beta version), I had ONE single kernal panic in all that time, and that was with the beta.

The Mac Pro is a work of art.. but..

When I got it home, I transfered over all my data, downloaded the latest versions of all my software, and I started installing stuff. I was playing iTunes, crash.. Ok, fine, played a stream via VLC, crash..

In the course of 24 hours, I managed to have 5 complete "hold power button down to reboot" crashes.

My mate says ever since upgrading to 10.3 he's had ALOT or random crashes on both his G5 and Powerbook G4. Is this normal? Is 10.3 that much of a POS that it randomly crashes for no apparent reason? It's never the same program that crashes, never the same time being on or memory being filled. Before I go buy a ram testing program to verify it's not that, I wanted to get opinions on if people have noticed much higher frequencies of crashes with 10.3 because frankly this is so unMaclike.

My bet is that something you transferred is creating havoc with your system.

 

[mkrishnan]

How are you running Panther (10.3) on a Mac Pro?

Early builds are not always stable... but were you on a PPC and using 10.3.8 or better, it should be fine. 10.4.9 is fine also... which hopefully is what you are using on your Mac Pro.

Two major possibilities:

1) Most likely: bad hardware -- particularly the possibility of bad memory. Can try unseating / reseating it if you're comfortable, or have Apple deal with it.

2) Less likely: interference from something you transferred over. Thing to try is creating a new user account, use it for a few days with minimal stuff transfered over -- only documents and data files and no programs or settings. If this eliminates the crashes, there's something you transfered over that does not belong on an Intel mac.

 

[GrBear]

How are you running Panther (10.3) on a Mac Pro?

Errr.. *blushes*

Sorry, I was running 10.3 on the G4... 10.4 on the Mac Pro. Sorry for the confusion, I took a year off from my Mac and was running XP on a PC because Second Life wouldn't run on my G4 (more than 4 frames per second if I was lucky).. had my OS version numbers confuddled.

 

[GrBear]

Two major possibilities:

1) Most likely: bad hardware -- particularly the possibility of bad memory. Can try unseating / reseating it if you're comfortable, or have Apple deal with it.

This is a possibility, my Mac Pro came stock with 2x512 from Apple and I added another 2x512 from OWC. I'll have to grab Techtools Pro and test the RAM overnight. Considering how beat up the box was when I got it, it could very well be the Apple RAM might need reseating.. will do that tonight.

2) Less likely: interference from something you transferred over. Thing to try is creating a new user account, use it for a few days with minimal stuff transfered over -- only documents and data files and no programs or settings. If this eliminates the crashes, there's something you transfered over that does not belong on an Intel mac.

That's going to be fun to track down if it is. The last error I got complained of memory issues, so I guess I'll start there before considering a re-install.

 

[Felldownthewell]

In my experiance the majority of kernel panics are either software related or RAM related. How much RAM do you have in it right now? VLC is a pretty intensive program, and on my computer it uses quite a bit of RAM (I don't know if a UB is out yet and I think I'm running a PPC version, so my processor/RAM usage numbers may be inflated compared to a UB version). My best guess is that it is the RAM. Try testing out your programs and files to see if anything in particular crashes the system. Then try to see if it is more likely to crash under RAM intensive operations or not.

If they are totally random and you can't find out what is triggering them, call up AppleCare or bring it in to the store. The only problem is that if they are totally random you may not be able to reproduce the effect for the guys at apple, which is why finding the trigger might be really useful.

Good luck!

 

[Kosh66]

If your "crash" is a Kernel Panic, then no it's not normal to have Kernel Panics that often. Like you (on your Sawtooth), I think I've had one in 1 or 2 years and then it was because I had something installed that I shouldn't.

Since you added RAM, the first thing I would try is pulling the extra RAM and running the machine without it for a couple of days.

Second, do you have any Norton stuff installed. Get rid of it. It causes more problems then it solves.

Did you have MacOS 9 installed still on your Sawtooth. Some MacOS 9 stuff copied over has been know to cause problems on Mac Pros (at least that's what I've heard).

It could have been something else that got copied over that is causing problems or it could be another hardware problem. One other thing to try is booting from the System DVD and see if your machine is stable then. If it is, this may mean it's time for a reinstall of the MacOS System (Archive and Install maybe?).

 

[GrBear]

For those interested, here is my panic log:

*********

Tue Apr 17 23:13:27 2007
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x006B2CC4): Uncorrectable Fbd memory error detected. ferr = 20000000 , nerr == 00000000, fErrFat = 20000000  nErrFat == 00000000 

Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack) 
0x108cd8 : 0x128d08 (0x3cb134 0x108cfc 0x131de5 0x0) 
0x108d18 : 0x6b2cc4 (0x6b4f1c 0x20000000 0x0 0x20000000) 
0x108da8 : 0x6b2f58 (0x3ce5b80 0x3ce5b80 0x2 0x820044) 
0x108e38 : 0x62f712 (0x3ce5b80 0x0 0x3720280 0x0) 
0x108e68 : 0x62f59b (0x370d380 0x0 0x0 0x1c) 
0x108e88 : 0x6429be (0x1c 0x108ef8 0x8 0x6444be) 
0x108eb8 : 0x642b68 (0x370fb1c 0x17 0x370d4ca 0x36ff120) 
0x108f18 : 0x64f743 (0x36b5888 0x0 0x108f48 0x398f1d) 
0x108f38 : 0x6cd4fb (0x36b5888 0x0 0x3636c80 0x0) 
0x108f68 : 0x63553f (0x3706600 0x0 0x3704180 0x49) 
0x108f88 : 0x62ec1f (0x36e7800 0x0 0x3704180 0x49) 
0x108fa8 : 0x3bb95a (0x370dd00 0x0 0x370db80 0x49) 
0x108fe8 : 0x19aef0 (0x24ffbe30 0x24ffbe30 0x19bf46 0xa6d000) 
0x24ffbf18 : 0x1a545b (0x18 0x364a254 0x24ffbf38 0x6) 
0x24ffbf38 : 0x19e871 (0x0 0x1 0x4b085c 0x206) 
0x24ffbf58 : 0x135f14 (0x0 0x0 0x24ffbf98 0x0) 	Backtrace continues...
      Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
         com.apple.driver.AppleMCEDriver(1.1.2f1)@0x6af000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.2.0)@0x629000
         com.apple.driver.AppleAPIC(1.2.0)@0x6cc000
         com.apple.driver.AppleACPIPlatform(1.0.8)@0x62d000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.2)@0x58d000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.2.0)@0x629000

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.9.1: Thu Feb 22 20:55:00 PST 2007; root:xnu-792.18.15~1/RELEASE_I386


*********

Wed Apr 18 22:00:23 2007
panic(cpu 0 caller 0x006BDCC4): Uncorrectable Fbd memory error detected. ferr = 20000000 , nerr == 00000000, fErrFat = 20000000  nErrFat == 00000000 

Backtrace, Format - Frame : Return Address (4 potential args on stack) 
0x108cd8 : 0x128d08 (0x3cb134 0x108cfc 0x131de5 0x0) 
0x108d18 : 0x6bdcc4 (0x6bff1c 0x20000000 0x0 0x20000000) 
0x108da8 : 0x6bdf58 (0x3870a00 0x3870a00 0x2 0x820044) 
0x108e38 : 0x63a712 (0x3870a00 0x0 0x36fa280 0x0) 
0x108e68 : 0x63a59b (0x36e7380 0x0 0x0 0x1c) 
0x108e88 : 0x64d9be (0x1c 0x108ef8 0x8 0x64f4be) 
0x108eb8 : 0x64db68 (0x36e9b1c 0x17 0x36e74ca 0x36d9120) 
0x108f18 : 0x65a743 (0x3690ec8 0x0 0xe6e27a03 0x4a88) 
0x108f38 : 0x6d84fb (0x3690ec8 0x0 0x3610c80 0x0) 
0x108f68 : 0x64053f (0x36e0600 0x0 0x36de180 0x49) 
0x108f88 : 0x639c1f (0x36c3800 0x0 0x36de180 0x49) 
0x108fa8 : 0x3bb95a (0x36e7d00 0x0 0x36e7b80 0x49) 
0x108fe8 : 0x19aef0 (0x4094680 0x4094680 0x19bf46 0xa47000) No mapping exists for frame pointer
Backtrace terminated-invalid frame pointer 0xb019fdb8
      Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
         com.apple.driver.AppleMCEDriver(1.1.2f1)@0x6ba000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.2.0)@0x634000
         com.apple.driver.AppleAPIC(1.2.0)@0x6d7000
         com.apple.driver.AppleACPIPlatform(1.0.8)@0x638000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(2.2)@0x58d000
            dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOACPIFamily(1.2.0)@0x634000

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 8.9.1: Thu Feb 22 20:55:00 PST 2007; root:xnu-792.18.15~1/RELEASE_I386


*********

Seems to be a RAM error.. going to run a mem test right away

 

[MacNut]

Pull out the 2 new sticks of RAM and see what it does.

 

[GrBear]

Pull out the 2 new sticks of RAM and see what it does.

Will do..

I had pulled out both RAM carriers, popped out the dimms and reseated them then reseated both carriers.. crashed again. *grumbles* Time to pull ram out.

btw, I ran 20 loops of tech tool pro's memory test and it detected nothing abnormal.

Also, I'm not sure the references about a 'bad file'.. Font I knew caused issues, but a non running application?

Anyways, off to yank some ram.

 

[akadmon]

Will do..

I had pulled out both RAM carriers, popped out the dimms and reseated them then reseated both carriers.. crashed again. *grumbles* Time to pull ram out.

btw, I ran 20 loops of tech tool pro's memory test and it detected nothing abnormal.

Also, I'm not sure the references about a 'bad file'.. Font I knew caused issues, but a non running application?

Anyways, off to yank some ram.

Why not do a fresh OS install on another hd? Chances are you've brought over some conflicts from your old machine.

 

[Kosh66]

Will do..

I had pulled out both RAM carriers, popped out the dimms and reseated them then reseated both carriers.. crashed again. *grumbles* Time to pull ram out.

btw, I ran 20 loops of tech tool pro's memory test and it detected nothing abnormal.

I've heard from retailers that fix machines that sometimes those RAM tests don't detect the problem.

 

[GrBear]

Just as a bit of an update. I pulled those two OWC sticks out, and WoW'd all night without a single crash, which was pretty much happening about every 5 minutes into playing WoW last night.

I guess I'll be giving OWC a phone call this morning.

 

[Sdashiki]

Im with everyone else when it comes to KPs, its almost always RAM related.

Let us know what OWC says.

 

[Max Payne]

Great that you found what was causing all the trouble. Hope you won't have any problems with OWC.

 

[GrBear]

I got an RMA from OWC on Friday, so I have to send these back. No word on if they cross ship or if I have to wait till they get mine, then ship the replacements. If thats the case I could be waiting two or more weeks for the new ones (I'm in Canada).

I can honestly say the stock 1gb is underwhelming. *sighs*

Generally speaking, how many people have had issues with OWC dimms and their Mac Pro? When I get another 2gb, I'm strongly considering buying from somewhere else that will cross ship if they're memory is faulty from the get-go.

 

[akadmon]

I got an RMA from OWC on Friday, so I have to send these back. No word on if they cross ship or if I have to wait till they get mine, then ship the replacements. If thats the case I could be waiting two or more weeks for the new ones (I'm in Canada).

I can honestly say the stock 1gb is underwhelming. *sighs*

Generally speaking, how many people have had issues with OWC dimms and their Mac Pro? When I get another 2gb, I'm strongly considering buying from somewhere else that will cross ship if they're memory is faulty from the get-go.

I believe OWC cross-ships if you pay the shipping charges on your original (bad) sticks.

EDIT:

OWC will either refund the money, or they will "advance ship" your replacement RAM. they cover all shipping costs within the first 14 days. This is from here:

http://eshop.macsales.com/Customized_Pages/Framework.cfm?page=PowerBook_Memory/memhead/warranty.html

 

[mperkins37]

Keep an eye on it!

Keep an eye on that mac over the next month or so.
The fact that you mentioned "badly banged up box made me shudder.
Logic board problems are nefarious & sneaky. It may be the solder on the ram board sockets is hinky, or there is a hairline crack on a capacitor.
If so, I would call apple immediately & log the problem.
The earlier they catch it the easier it is to trade a lemon in for a good machine in a pristine box. The key red flag here is the shipping containers condition.
I talk from experience. UPS, what can brown do to your mac?
GOOD LUCK!
Mperkins

 

[GrBear]

OWC will either refund the money, or they will "advance ship" your replacement RAM. they cover all shipping costs within the first 14 days.

True enough, that is the case. My problem is I ordered the RAM and Mac Pro the same day.. the RAM came in next business day.. the Mac Pro came in 12 days after I ordered it. Oddly enough, it wasn't built until 4 days after I ordered it. It wasn't until the 15th day that I nailed it down to being the RAM.

Still running crash free though, so I'm more than confident it was the RAM indeed causing the crashing.

 

[mustang_dvs]

It's probably your RAM that's having issues, and I know it's a smack your forehead type of question, but...

Have you made sure that you're using the Universal Binary version of VLC?

When I first got my Mac Pro and used the migration assistant to transfer everything from my PowerMac G5, which was running 10.4.9, anytime Quicktime was invoked, it would crash the system. Turns out that I had an old Quicktime plug-in that was written in PPC code, which theoretically shouldn't cause a problem, but did.

Since then, I've also combed through my Applications, System Pref Panels and Internet Plug-ins and found a lot of old, PPC-only code that either doesn't work or has an available Universal Binary update in the wild. (In addition to helping stability, it will speed things up even more.)

 

[GothicChess.Com]

I've heard from retailers that fix machines that sometimes those RAM tests don't detect the problem.

I wrote a RAM test utility that can test down to an individual IC on a chip. Basically it loops through and sets every bit of every byte of physical RAM to a "1", then loops again, locates every "1" and sets it to "0". It then examines every byte (8 bit clumps) and makes sure they are all 0. If not, then maybe an IC is failing.

This simple test is very effective. I was pulling my hair out about 2 years ago trying to debug some crashing after application launches, and this thing proved to the Apple Dealer that the RAM was defective even though "their tests" said it was OK.

"You can't argue with bad bits!"

 

[GrBear]

Got my replacement RAM from OWC. After testing it extensively over the weekened (my WoW Warlock 5 gained levels *giggles* and handbrake encoding my Spirited Away DVD to load onto my iPod), it's running perfectly. Infact it runs consistantly about 4c lower than the Apple memory.

If Apple hadn't dragged their behinds in building and shipping my Mac Pro, I would've had the replacements quicker since I missed the 15 day OWC cross ship policy by 1 day.

Now, my connundrumm is do I risk ordering another 4x512 from OWC and risk another bad DIMM or try another place.

 

[product26]

Got my replacement RAM from OWC. After testing it extensively over the weekened (my WoW Warlock 5 gained levels *giggles* and handbrake encoding my Spirited Away DVD to load onto my iPod), it's running perfectly. Infact it runs consistantly about 4c lower than the Apple memory.

If Apple hadn't dragged their behinds in building and shipping my Mac Pro, I would've had the replacements quicker since I missed the 15 day OWC cross ship policy by 1 day.

Now, my connundrumm is do I risk ordering another 4x512 from OWC and risk another bad DIMM or try another place.

good to hear that you got it sorted.

OWC is pretty good. I would imagine that you have nothing to worry about. Order some more.