Grief over Perfect Ebay 12" PB Sale

[Calvinatir]

Well, it seemed as though it was time to sell the ol' 12" Powerbook SD/1.25GB. The best of the best for the 12" powerbooks. So I put it up on ebay Ebay Link and fortunately for my it ended within HOURS of the Macbook release and I got a VERY good price for it ($1252 Shipped). I had this 12" PB from the day it was release back in Feb 05 until the final day of it's existence on the apple website, truly perfect and due mostly to Macrumors.com. I know that if I were the person who bought it, I'd be pretty peeved as well. Well, I got payment almost immediately and shipped it off the next day as soon as I heard the Macbook news. Hours later i got an ebay message saying she wanted a refund because of some credit card balance issues, which I took as a ploy to get a refund from me. I took it straight to the point and asked her if it was about the new Macbook, and she responded by saying again that her credit card was over the balance.

I then told her that I'd refund the 1st payment if I received a 2nd payment within the next week. After that I received NO correspondence and was forced to keep the original payment. Over 2.5 weeks later (tonight) i receive an email from Paypal saying that the bidder filed a "Chargeback" on the payment and now I have a $-12xx amount on my paypal account! I just now filed my formal writing with paypal and it's in the dispute overview phase. It was also confirmed as delivered and has >$1000 insurance and was shipped in the original box inside of another box so there is no chance at damage. I'm just really peeved that this chick is doing this to me. I can no longer use my paypal and who knows if I'll have to fork out the $1200 bucks before this is resolved...UGH


Then again, if it all works out it will still be the most PERFECT apple laptop sale in history, thanks to MR!!

 

[PatrickF]

Well there goes some very negative feedback for her on eBay! Oh, I'd also file a complaint with eBay. From what I read you never received full payment. I believe you can file a non-payment complaint with eBay.

PayPal are totally useless at sorting stuff out so beware! A friend of mine had his debit card registered on another person's account without him knowing (after giving his card details out to pay for a pizza over the phone) and had money taking out of his bank account. It's amazing how PayPal even let's people register other people's debit cards without verifying that they own the card.

 

[Abstract]

I avoid Paypal. They don't provide you with anything. If I was to sell something, I would go with the direct deposit option, but I've never dealt internationally before though, so maybe I'd give in.

.....meh, actually, no I wouldn't. Too many problems with Paypal and getting money deducted from your account, as was the case here.

 

[mward333]

Another scam. Yuck. I'm sorry it happened to you.

It happened to me once. I'll never use eBay, paypal, Fedex, etc., again (my story was posted on MR two years ago). When it comes down to it, all of these services can easily fail the honest internet seller or buyer. This is a huge generalization, but there are zillions of stories about such scams.... we see this stuff on MR all the time.

As a side note: I learned my lesson when it happened to me, and I only use craigslist now, just doing local selling/buying, and I've never been cheated. In fact, I've had lots of success. I always have buyers meet me at my office (I teach at the university), and we have an easy transaction in a public place. I mean, I'm not running a business here! Just an occasional sale every few months, but craigslist is so easy.

 

[ImNoSuperMan]

Then again, if it all works out it will still be the most PERFECT apple laptop sale in history, thanks to MR!!

May be it got just a bit too perfect I guess /

Anyways I dont think you`ll get the money. IMO the deal will be cancelled and all you could do is give the girl a -ve feedback.

If I was i your place I`d just try convince the girl to buy it at a lesser price may be. Give her a discount of 50-100$ and see if she agrees. Since the PB has already shipped it`d be better to sell it to her only. Getting it back and selling it again, paying fr the shipping again and hoping this time you do get the money; will be one big trouble you should try to avoid definitely.

 

[mward333]

In a perfect world, what vikas soni said would be right (trying to correct the sale by talking with the buyer)....

but I'm sure that the buyer is long gone!! I'm sorry to say you'll probably never hear from the seller (or see your laptop!) again.

Just focus your efforts on getting your money back from paypal/eBay. It is a tough process, and they might not back you up anyway, so keep working on that.

Again, I'm sorry to hear about your loss.

If it sounds "to good to be true" folks..... then avoid it!

 

[ImNoSuperMan]

I'm sure that the buyer is long gone!! I'm sorry to say you'll probably never hear from the seller (or see your laptop!) again.

Just focus your efforts on getting your money back from paypal/eBay. It is a tough process, and they might not back you up anyway, so keep working on that.

That would be the guy`s worst nightmare if he doesnt even get his PB back. But I have a bit more faith in PayPal. The guy is not at fault in any way. And I dont think he`ll ever loose money. It`ll definitely take some time(plus a lot of effort) but he`ll get the money in the end.

Also taking a look at the feedbacks the buyer doesnt sound fraud IMO. But that doesnt assure you that she`ll stay honest and genuine this time too. I m sure this is all bout MB as the OP said. I m suggesting a discount as this will be the least worst option possible(if possible at all).

Any ways I hope you dont loose the money Calvinatir. Just make sure you keep us updated bout the matter. I`d really be surprised if PayPal doesnt help the guy.

 

[Stridder44]

Another scam. Yuck. I'm sorry it happened to you.

It happened to me once. I'll never use eBay, paypal, Fedex, etc., again (my story was posted on MR two years ago). When it comes down to it, all of these services can easily fail the honest internet seller or buyer. This is a huge generalization, but there are zillions of stories about such scams.... we see this stuff on MR all the time.

As a side note: I learned my lesson when it happened to me, and I only use craigslist now, just doing local selling/buying, and I've never been cheated. In fact, I've had lots of success. I always have buyers meet me at my office (I teach at the university), and we have an easy transaction in a public place. I mean, I'm not running a business here! Just an occasional sale every few months, but craigslist is so easy.

Thats it. Ive heard too many horror stories. Im closing my PayPal & eBay accounts right now.

/Thank God I've never used them

 

[lamina]

Please keep us updated on what happens...

 

[California]

What do you mean first and second payment?

This happened to me on a logic board sale. The bids went pretty high. I was surprised, as the item was listed as damaged. I had no way of testing the board and stated so in the auction and it turned out it worked except for the video. They tried to charge back through PayPal. I fought it as an honest sale, I was truthful and as up front as possible about the item. (it had been dropped!) I threatened legal action, because eBay is a legit sale. Wrote many forceful and honest letters backed up by my honest description on the auction page. I won. Money returned to me.

I don't understand how the girl only paid you the "first" payment. What does that mean? I thought you got the money right away? Your first mistake was to give in. Unless you stated some refund policy on the auction page, this is a firm sale.

 

[ImNoSuperMan]

I don't understand how the girl only paid you the "first" payment. What does that mean? I thought you got the money right away? Your first mistake was to give in. Unless you stated some refund policy on the auction page, this is a firm sale.

I guess OP meant that the girl paid him in full through PayPal making it her first and final payment. But next day she demanded a refund as their was some problem with her credit card balance. OP then asked her to use some other credit card and make another payment of the same amount first(which he reffered to as Second payment) so that he can refund the first payment.

 

[Atlasland]

I guess OP meant that the girl paid him in full through PayPal making it her first and final payment. But next day she demanded a refund as their was some problem with her credit card balance. OP then asked her to use some other credit card and make another payment of the same amount first(which he reffered to as Second payment) so that he can refund the first payment.

Right. That makes sense. Thanks for clearing that up.

Paypal sucks huge monkey balls. eBay sucks them harder.

 

[Chrispy]

Paypal is TERRIBLE. I had a similar incident happen to me and even after I told paypal what happened they still held me responsible. Give them the tracking information so you have proof it was delivered. They sent a collection agency after me and I wrote the agency a letter telling them how it was a wrongful collection. It has been a year and I have not heard from them again, thankfully! Fight this until the bitter end and don't give up. Screw paypal.. they never stick by their sellers!

 

[danny_w]

I've personally never had a problem with PayPal or eBay, but their fees are getting outrageous and these horror stories just make it seem not worthwhile anymore. I have gone to selling most of my stuff for cash locally via craigslist with good results. I would rather get the cash in a face-to-face transaction than risk the problems with eBay and PayPal.

 

[interlaced]

What a horrible situation! Hopefully emphasizing the fact that you contacted her back about setting up a payment schedule but never received any response will help you out. Unfortunately, I was in a similar situation once but didnt get one red cent back even after contesting it with legitimate proof. I was out $1400 and after reading up on threats that Paypal does to send you to a debt collection agency, I paid the $1400 to get my balance out of the red. Ugh, not fair. Now I don't use PayPal. US Money Orders all the way or straight up cash. Try Craigslist sometime. I sold my 12" to someone in WeHo for $1100 AFTER the Macbooks came out, and it was only the Combo and 60GB version. Good luck to you, though.

 

[Ryan T.]

This is why I'd MUCH rather sell my computers here on MR, even at a little bit of a loss. While not fool proof or "safe", it does provide a better chance of an honest transaction.

That being said, I sold my G5 tower on eBay and it was a flawless sale.

 

[savar]

so much paranoia!

Most of the eBay/PayPal horror stories involve people who didn't know any better. I don't think eBay/PayPal is an unsafe place to do business, you just have to keep in mind that its a long-distance transaction with a complete stranger. Keep that in the back of your mind at all times and be cautious. I've bought and sold many things on EBay, and conducted lots of non-auction transactions through PayPal. Of course, I always try Craigslist first if I think its reasonable, but the local market is so much smaller than the national market that sometimes Craigslist just doesn't make sense. Unless you're trading in cash and in person, Craigslist isn't any safer -- in fact, its LESS safe than eBay/PayPal.

Let's just all wait and see what happens. I will be really shocked if the poster doesn't get his money back. My only comment on his sale is that he should not have contacted the buyer to ask if she wanted to buy a MacBook. The buyer was legally obligated to pay, no matter what her reasons for wanting the money back. I wouldn't feel bad about profiting from the timing of the sale -- you were only using information that was just as available to her as it was to you.

edit: I just looked at interlaced's post. If someone threatens to refer you to a debt-collection agency, don't let that scare you. It's a little bit of work, but if you write a letter to the debt-collection agency explaining your side of the story they will probably just leave you alone and write it off to bad debt (or take it back to the original debt owner). If they report you to a CRA (EquiFAx, Transunion, etc.), then you write letters to THEM explaining your side. If you're a literate adult and you write a nice, balanced letter, printed envelope, etc. (i.e. be professional about it), then people will take you seriously. Keep in mind that you can force an expensive endgame -- litigation -- and most of these companies won't take that risk for relatively small debt ($1-2K) if you've made a good case and presented yourself professionally. There is far more low-hanging fruit out there that they can make money on.

 

[Chrispy]

Let's just all wait and see what happens. I will be really shocked if the poster doesn't get his money back. My only comment on his sale is that he should not have contacted the buyer to ask if she wanted to buy a MacBook. The buyer was legally obligated to pay, no matter what her reasons for wanting the money back. I wouldn't feel bad about profiting from the timing of the sale -- you were only using information that was just as available to her as it was to you.

edit: I just looked at interlaced's post. If someone threatens to refer you to a debt-collection agency, don't let that scare you. It's a little bit of work, but if you write a letter to the debt-collection agency explaining your side of the story they will probably just leave you alone and write it off to bad debt (or take it back to the original debt owner). If they report you to a CRA (EquiFAx, Transunion, etc.), then you write letters to THEM explaining your side. If you're a literate adult and you write a nice, balanced letter, printed envelope, etc. (i.e. be professional about it), then people will take you seriously. Keep in mind that you can force an expensive endgame -- litigation -- and most of these companies won't take that risk for relatively small debt ($1-2K) if you've made a good case and presented yourself professionally. There is far more low-hanging fruit out there that they can make money on.

I did exaclty what you described with the collection agency when paypal sent one after me. The collection agency backed off and must have written it off as a bad bebt. I would not be surprised if PayPal takes him money and turns him over to a collection agency even with proof. They are just starting to think they are invincible. Finally, I also agree that you should have told the lady she was out of luck and she committed to the sale. Fight this to the end and DO NO give in to paypal. Follow this posters advice and be professional about it to the very end. It worked for me and it will work for you, or anyone else for that matter as well.

 

[Calvinatir]

I guess OP meant that the girl paid him in full through PayPal making it her first and final payment. But next day she demanded a refund as their was some problem with her credit card balance. OP then asked her to use some other credit card and make another payment of the same amount first(which he reffered to as Second payment) so that he can refund the first payment.

Yes, sorry for the confusion, she paid in FULL the first time. Then I told her I'd refund the 1st payment if I received a 2nd. No word back from either party yet, this is just complete BS and I hope paypal doesn't send it to a collections for having a negative balance. What other proof can I send to paypal so that they will believe it was a legitimate sale? I tried to sell it here and on Craigslist to no avail before I went to ebay. Thanks for your support!

 

[macpastor]

And now everyone knows why I choose to never take PayPal. In PayPal land the buyer takes preference over the seller. I sold a LCD screen for $500, adn it got shipped, buyer received, then he claimed he never got it, put a claim in to PayPal and a week later they freeze my account and drop it to a negative $500 so they could pay him back.

2 years later, it is still there and I can't get it off.

I opened a new account a year ago, and sold many things, and finally a computer. The buyer bought it, I shipped, and 2 weeks later I get a drop of $1500 in my paypal account because the buyer used a credit card that was fraudulent. I tried to contact PayPal and they would never work with me on the phone or e-mail. They sent me to collections, and it took me a year to pay off the $1500.00

They are a bad experience all around. I will NEVER use them. I have heard to many horror stories.

Want to hear more? www.paypalsucks.com

 

[drift1492]

Did you ship the computer with a tracking number? It seems like if you could prove that you shipped the computer to HER address that might be enough for paypal. I mean, if she told her credit card company in the chargeback that she didn't receive anything, and that info was sent to paypal, then the fact that you have proof she received something from you would be enough. Just a thought. Good luck with this.

The main problem here is that it is easier for paypal to screw you over without asking for your side than to fight a credit card chargeback.

Also, I try not to use paypal for high dollar stuff. Anything over about 300 bucks and I will ask for Postal Money Orders. I may lose out on potential bidders because they want the "buyer protection" that paypal provides, but I won't get screwed over like this.

 

[interlaced]

savar, thanks for that. I should have asked around more before paying that money to PayPal. =\

 

[Calvinatir]

Did you ship the computer with a tracking number? It seems like if you could prove that you shipped the computer to HER address that might be enough for paypal. I mean, if she told her credit card company in the chargeback that she didn't receive anything, and that info was sent to paypal, then the fact that you have proof she received something from you would be enough. Just a thought. Good luck with this.

The main problem here is that it is easier for paypal to screw you over without asking for your side than to fight a credit card chargeback.

Also, I try not to use paypal for high dollar stuff. Anything over about 300 bucks and I will ask for Postal Money Orders. I may lose out on potential bidders because they want the "buyer protection" that paypal provides, but I won't get screwed over like this.

It was sent Insured with a tracking Number and she received the item.
I just got off the phone with paypal and it seems that she circumvented paypal (probably because she thought she tried to file an argument with paypal). She called up American Express and called the charge fraudulent or something to that effect. So the lady from paypal said that they are fighting on the seller's (my) behalf. It could take up to 75 days but she said that money was just a hold and wouldn't go to collections. This really just sounds like steeling though, she has the money and the PB now. UGH

 

[drift1492]

It was sent Insured with a tracking Number and she received the item.
I just got off the phone with paypal and it seems that she circumvented paypal (probably because she thought she tried to file an argument with paypal). She called up American Express and called the charge fraudulent or something to that effect. So the lady from paypal said that they are fighting on the seller's (my) behalf. It could take up to 75 days but she said that money was just a hold and wouldn't go to collections. This really just sounds like steeling though, she has the money and the PB now. UGH

Im sure you have seen this, if not, it could be helpful.

Specifically,

What information can a seller provide to increase the chances of winning a chargeback dispute?

Some types of information that sellers can provide to PayPal to increase the chances of winning a chargeback include:

Proof of delivery, such as online tracking numbers
Copies of the original item description or auction description, including any photos
Proof that the buyer was already refunded
Proof that the buyer was provided with a replacement product
Correspondence with the buyer or feedback from the buyer
Any agreements signed or accepted by the buyer at time of purchase
Any return policy that was communicated to the buyer

Try to send as much of that to paypal as you can to help them convince the credit card company that the chargeback was fraudulent.

 

[Eluon]

i sold my old iBook G4 laptop to a guy here on macrumors. the guy sent the money to my paypal account, then 2 weeks later (after i had deposited it into my checking account) removed the money. he kept giving me B.S. reasons and paypal wouldn't help me. It took me about 6 months to get the last dime from him - after he made payments that were rather infrequent. the whole time paypal giving me garbage about my account being negative.

no more selling via paypal. they're trash.