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temende

macrumors 6502
Original poster
Oct 28, 2021
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1,372
In theory, excessive swap usage (from using much more memory than you have available RAM) will wear down an SSD over time. However, I am curious if anyone has actually run into this in practice? Has anyone had a Mac with an SSD that failed and it was determined (or suspected) it was due to excessive swap usage?

I am mostly just asking because I am curious to see how often SSD failures from swap actually happen in practice.
 

hobowankenobi

macrumors 68020
Aug 27, 2015
2,125
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on the land line mr. smith.
My org has about 2500 Macs, and while I do (rarely) see a failed SSD, I can't say one of them failed because of wear/swap. Not sure how one could prove or disprove that. FWIW, none of the other techs here have ever suspected excessive wear either. Typically it would be in MBP that likely died due to rough use, liquid damage...or once it great while it appears to be defective (in the first year or so). Even harder to sort out, as the entire logic board gets replaced, really no way to say what component failed, is what order, or why.

I did see a small SSD fail in our last Xserve...buit it was a third party boot drive (from OWC), and it ran 24/7 for nearly 4 years with much higher-than-desktop swap use, and considering it was only 64GB the swap use per sector must have been much higher than the typcial SSD. That's the only SSD failure in over 10 years that I would attribute to "wear".
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
6,024
2,617
Los Angeles, CA
In theory, excessive swap usage (from using much more memory than you have available RAM) will wear down an SSD over time. However, I am curious if anyone has actually run into this in practice? Has anyone had a Mac with an SSD that failed and it was determined (or suspected) it was due to excessive swap usage?

I am mostly just asking because I am curious to see how often SSD failures from swap actually happen in practice.

I think a lot of this depends on how heavily you use your system. I have a ton of M1 Macs that are the base 8GB of RAM/256GB SSD/7 GPU Core variant. On those machines, I don't really do a lot of heavy lifting. So, I probably won't wear out my SSD on those machines before I'm ready to replace them. However, if you generally juggle a lot of stuff, you will probably wear out your SSD quicker.

All that to say that there are probably several folks (including M2 owners with the 8GB/256GB configuration) that don't have a lot running at once, don't use their machine for much more than the basics, that will never wear down their SSD or notice any issue. But that's not to say that there won't be those that couldn't afford a beefier configuration, got an 8GB/256GB machine and are putting strain on the SSD.

Much like the "slow" SSD speeds of the 256gb M2's, this is much ado about nothing. Something for tech bloggers/vloggers to theorize and talk about, nothing more.
It's much ado about nothing for those that don't do anything intensive on their machines. For those buying into the notion that an M2 MacBook Air would blow the lid off of an Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro (something often espoused on both this site and on Apple's marketing) and using it as such, you might have issues down the road.
 
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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
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Good question. After all the posts about the potential of Apple SSDs failing due to swapping here are a couple of large scale installations that haven't had a single such failure. Haven't seen any post reporting an Apple SSD failing due to swapping.
 
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sdwaltz

macrumors 65816
Apr 29, 2015
1,086
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Indiana
I think a lot of this depends on how heavily you use your system. I have a ton of M1 Macs that are the base 8GB of RAM/256GB SSD/7 GPU Core variant. On those machines, I don't really do a lot of heavy lifting. So, I probably won't wear out my SSD on those machines before I'm ready to replace them. However, if you generally juggle a lot of stuff, you will probably wear out your SSD quicker.

All that to say that there are probably several folks (including M2 owners with the 8GB/256GB configuration) that don't have a lot running at once, don't use their machine for much more than the basics, that will never wear down their SSD or notice any issue. But that's not to say that there won't be those that couldn't afford a beefier configuration, got an 8GB/256GB machine and are putting strain on the SSD.


It's much ado about nothing for those that don't do anything intensive on their machines. For those buying into the notion that an M2 MacBook Air would blow the lid off of an Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro (something often espoused on both this site and on Apple's marketing) and using it as such, you might have issues down the road.
I would argue that the people looking to upgrade from a 16" Intel MBP likely wouldn't be looking at a MBA in the first place, much less a base model. I'm sure they exist, but they'd be very few and far between.
 

Yebubbleman

macrumors 603
May 20, 2010
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2,617
Los Angeles, CA
Good question. After all the posts about the potential of Apple SSDs failing due to swapping here are a couple of large scale installations that haven't had a single such failure. Haven't seen any post reporting an Apple SSD failing due to swapping.

When an SSD fails, are you really able to say that it failed due to swapping? That seems like an argument you can't really make one way or the other unless you are a forensic data recovery specialist (which I'm guessing neither of us are).

Excessive swapping creates wear on your SSD. That much isn't up for debate. Enough wear on your SSD and your SSD will fail. That's also not up for debate. Whether your SSD will fail before you discard the Mac, that IS up for debate, but it's highly subjective. The fact of the matter is that the SSD isn't a separate module on these computers. There hasn't been a MacBook Pro where you could have a separate module for the SSD sold in the last three years and change.

Furthermore, this is the Macrumors.com forums, where the prevailing rationale is that the Apple doesn't make failure-prone products and that any media that says otherwise is click-bait sensationalism. Treating posts on here as gospel should be done carefully.

I would argue that the people looking to upgrade from a 16" Intel MBP likely wouldn't be looking at a MBA in the first place, much less a base model. I'm sure they exist, but they'd be very few and far between.
You can argue that all you want. That doesn't change the fact that Apple has been marketing Apple Silicon MacBook Airs as MacBook Airs that are capable of doing the kinds of work that you previously could only do on an Intel 16-inch MacBook Pro. You are going to have people doing prosumer grade tasks on these Macs because they do not want to spend more money on a MacBook Pro.

Yes, the kind of user that would be just as fine on a Chromebook will be just fine on any Apple Silicon MacBook Air with the base storage and RAM (whether M1 or M2).

That doesn't mean that excessive Swap isn't a bad thing.

That also doesn't mean that Apple using fewer NAND modules on the base M2 configuration results in a better SSD than its predecessor nor that anyone whose use cases are minimal will notice or care.

But your argument that only a handful of folks will buy the MacBook Air and intend to push it to its limits, especially after all the hubbub from both Apple and others about how capable an Apple Silicon MacBook Air is compared to its Intel predecessors, is based solely on antiquated marketing of Intel MacBook Airs that are long gone at this point.
 
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HDFan

Contributor
Jun 30, 2007
7,290
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Excessive swapping creates wear on your SSD. That much isn't up for debate. Enough wear on your SSD and your SSD will fail. That's also not up for debate

No disagreement about the theory, however the fact that there hasn't been a single post about an SSD wearing out due to TBW limits (that I have seen) would indicate it is a theory only, without any documented instances. My boot SSD is at 96% of its estimated lifetime with 1.1 PB written. My Mac will have to be replaced long before it reaches its TBW limit.
 

theluggage

macrumors G3
Jul 29, 2011
8,015
8,449
No disagreement about the theory, however the fact that there hasn't been a single post about an SSD wearing out due to TBW limits (that I have seen) would indicate it is a theory only, without any documented instances.
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence and certainly doesn't disprove the theory. You wouldn't really expect to see failures after only a couple of years - the real question is what is going to happen after 5+ years. Plenty of people are still rocking 5-10 year old Macs today, so expectations of life expectancy are quite high. Even if you plan on upgrading after 3-4 years, SSD anxiety could reduce the resale value of your Mac.

It's true that with "normal" use, SSD lifetime shouldn't be an issue - but, unlike most of the other components a Mac, they do wear out after a given number of writes and the concern is that if anything causes abnormal use(excessive swap usage, software faults, malware) it may take years off that life - which could easily have been resolved by putting the SSD on a replaceable daughterboard, certainly on the MacBook Pro models, if not the ultra-thin MBA. One reason why I chose a Mac Studio over a Mini - the SSD is replaceable like-for-like, even if Apple block upgrades.

Much like the "slow" SSD speeds of the 256gb M2's,
...they're still slower than the old model and again, the problem only exists because Apple cut corners by only fitting a single 256GB Flash chip and wasting half the bandwidth... probably because nobody else is bothering with 128GB modules - with so many laptops at that price now starting at 512GB - and fitting 2x128GB would cost more, while fitting 2x256GB would eat into that lovely money-for-nothing "upgrade" revenue.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,243
13,316
I don't worry about swap "burning up" my drives.
But... my reason for "not worrying" is different than everyone else's.

That's because I have TURNED OFF VM disk swapping on my Macs.
No need to worry about swap-related damage if there's no swap in the first place.

No RAM-related crashes (no crashes, anyway).
The Macs still run great (2018 Mini and 2021 MBP 14").
 
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