iPad Pro HDR on 12.9 2021 IPP?

[paulcons]

So what I know is HDR, both DolbyVision and HDR10+ are sets of meta data that a display can or can't be used to modify a "normal" image being displayed. Reading the marketing, "XDR" sounds like it delivered the same thing. BUT how can this be... does video hold some XDR meta data (I think not)?

I see marketing from the fruit saying the support DV & HDR+, but do they REALLY USE the meta data to display what is called a HDR image? I THINK (but don't know for sure) that the streaming guys (Netflix & Prime mostly) can detect a suitable display to show the end user a badge showing they are sending the DV/HDR+ signal to the output device. WILL they detect the new 12.9" as showing a HDR image?

 

[cloudphrenia]

I can't really say I fully understand your question, but my 2018 iPP plays back HDR titles just fine. I don't see why HDR support would be dropped or degraded on the 2021 iPP.

 

[Slartibart]

As you mentioned it’s depending on the app, read the developer. Apple provides them with all necessary information and methods to implement support. Additionally I share #cloudphrenia’s assessment.

 

[AutomaticApple]

but my 2018 iPP plays back HDR titles just fine. I don't see why HDR support would be dropped or degraded on the 2021 iPP.

Yeah, if anything, it'll be miles better on the M1 chip.

 

[Aetherhole]

I don't know if your understanding is correct or if I am understanding what you are saying correctly. HDR10+ and Dolby Vision apply ONLY to HDR content. It won't be used for "normal" (SDR) content, which is most everything. HDR10+ and DV are both dynamic metadata implementations for HDR which try to calculate on a scene by scene to even a frame by frame basis the incoming metadata to better fit the displays capabilities.

HDR content on the new XDR display should be a good amount more impressive due to the capabilities of the screen itself. And I believe the iPad Pro will properly detect. If done right, DV and HDR10+ formats should show negligible differences between the two.

That being said, my experience previously has already led me to believe that apps (and even individual titles) have their default method of delivery, which will show when you're looking at the details/info. Netflix I think uses Dolby Vision pretty exclusively, so it would likely default to that.

 

[sparksd]

I don't know if your understanding is correct or if I am understanding what you are saying correctly. HDR10+ and Dolby Vision apply ONLY to HDR content. It won't be used for "normal" (SDR) content, which is most everything. HDR10+ and DV are both dynamic metadata implementations for HDR which try to calculate on a scene by scene to even a frame by frame basis the incoming metadata to better fit the displays capabilities.

HDR content on the new XDR display should be a good amount more impressive due to the capabilities of the screen itself. And I believe the iPad Pro will properly detect. If done right, DV and HDR10+ formats should show negligible differences between the two.

That being said, my experience previously has already led me to believe that apps (and even individual titles) have their default method of delivery, which will show when you're looking at the details/info. Netflix I think uses Dolby Vision pretty exclusively, so it would likely default to that.

Netflix supports DV and HDR10 but I mainly see DV when scanning titles -

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/42384

 

[Krevnik]

I’ll just add that XDR is the name Apple is using for their LED displays that can reach upwards of 1000 nits. It shouldn’t be confused with the video metadata.

The thing is, HDR metadata is a weird duck. The only requirement is that something needs to understand the capabilities of the display, and use the metadata to map the raw video signal to the wider brightness range, and adjust for the limits of the display. TVs provide this, which would make you think the display has to do the mapping, but that’s not true. It’s just easier this way, since the TV has a processor in it, to do it on the TV side of things.

As far as I know, both Apple and Microsoft drive HDR displays from the OS side of things: kick the display into its HDR mode (which forces the full brightness range and locks a couple settings) and drive it directly from the OS. This means the decoding of metadata is done as the video stream itself is decoded. But many players can do this as well, since you need the metadata to convert HDR to SDR (just ignoring the metadata washes out the video). It’s also how you have to do it if you want to properly mix SDR and HDR content on a PC or tablet where multiple apps can be visible at the same time. But last time I saw, both Microsoft and Apple don’t mix the content properly.

In terms of what that means for the XDR iPad: As long as Netflix can already pull down a DV stream, it should work. I think Netflix already does this since iPads have supported HDR metadata for a while.

 

[Aetherhole]

Netflix supports DV and HDR10 but I mainly see DV when scanning titles -

https://help.netflix.com/en/node/42384

HDR10 is required by all, but HDR10+ is optional. Dolby Vision is also optional and I think is Netflix's preferred method of delivery. Anyone without a DV-capable will default to HDR10 (non-plus).

 

[paulcons]

The concept of adding metadata to video stream to facilitate a better image on a HDR display is a good one. Having differing standards kinda kills the promise. Yeah, I heard Netflix uses DV almost exclusively... AND as Samsung refuses to get a license for it, logic says most Netflix HDR content does NOT work on Samsung TVs. Thing is I have seen NO marketing from the fruit about them supporting any of the HDR metadata standards.

MAYBE my problem is that these metadata standards are IN ADDITION to an already HDR image... is that the case? Now my bet is there is going to be no way to turn HDR on or off on a 2021 IPP 12.9... just to see the difference. BUT I didn't trade in my gen 2 IPP, so at least I can do some side by side. AND RSN (real soon now) that can happen as my 2021 unit is out for freaking delivery!

 

[sparksd]

The concept of adding metadata to video stream to facilitate a better image on a HDR display is a good one. Having differing standards kinda kills the promise. Yeah, I heard Netflix uses DV almost exclusively... AND as Samsung refuses to get a license for it, logic says most Netflix HDR content does NOT work on Samsung TVs. Thing is I have seen NO marketing from the fruit about them supporting any of the HDR metadata standards.

MAYBE my problem is that these metadata standards are IN ADDITION to an already HDR image... is that the case? Now my bet is there is going to be no way to turn HDR on or off on a 2021 IPP 12.9... just to see the difference. BUT I didn't trade in my gen 2 IPP, so at least I can do some side by side. AND RSN (real soon now) that can happen as my 2021 unit is out for freaking delivery!

It is a pain. And you're right - Samsung does not support DV on their TVs (I have two). Samsung does support HDR10+.

 

[paulcons]

My understanding is that when one is seeing an HDR video (movie or series) at least on Netflix, it has a specific HDR badge. Just got my 12.9 5th gen and immediately went there... nope, no badge. So the "HDR" iPad doesn't do HDR?

So I checked others. Amazon shows a UHD badge, which I believe means they are sending a 4k signal. BUT in the several titles I looked at, this only applied to their own created content. Even movies from 2020 and 2021 do not carry the UHD badge... this one is NOT on the iPad, it's what Amazon is sending down the line.

Then I got clever... how about the fruit own stuff? Well, well. Most titles I looked at (their own content) badged 4K, Dolby Vision, and Atmos (among other unrelated badges, although they use SDH instead of CC).

So do Amazon & Netflix do HDR? OR just not for this expensive tablet... because far as I know, they both do.

 

[sparksd]

My understanding is that when one is seeing an HDR video (movie or series) at least on Netflix, it has a specific HDR badge. Just got my 12.9 5th gen and immediately went there... nope, no badge. So the "HDR" iPad doesn't do HDR?

So I checked others. Amazon shows a UHD badge, which I believe means they are sending a 4k signal. BUT in the several titles I looked at, this only applied to their own created content. Even movies from 2020 and 2021 do not carry the UHD badge... this one is NOT on the iPad, it's what Amazon is sending down the line.

Then I got clever... how about the fruit own stuff? Well, well. Most titles I looked at (their own content) badged 4K, Dolby Vision, and Atmos (among other unrelated badges, although they use SDH instead of CC).

So do Amazon & Netflix do HDR? OR just not for this expensive tablet... because far as I know, they both do.

Not sure if Amazon does HDR on the iPad. On the iPad, their app is limited to 720p but you get 1080p on their website in Safari. So Amazon Prime's iPad support is not great.

 

[theNullCrown]

My understanding is that when one is seeing an HDR video (movie or series) at least on Netflix, it has a specific HDR badge. Just got my 12.9 5th gen and immediately went there... nope, no badge. So the "HDR" iPad doesn't do HDR?

So I checked others. Amazon shows a UHD badge, which I believe means they are sending a 4k signal. BUT in the several titles I looked at, this only applied to their own created content. Even movies from 2020 and 2021 do not carry the UHD badge... this one is NOT on the iPad, it's what Amazon is sending down the line.

Then I got clever... how about the fruit own stuff? Well, well. Most titles I looked at (their own content) badged 4K, Dolby Vision, and Atmos (among other unrelated badges, although they use SDH instead of CC).

So do Amazon & Netflix do HDR? OR just not for this expensive tablet... because far as I know, they both do.

You need the highest tier plan on Netflix to playback DV. Amazon Prime probably does not support HDR on iPad. Also the metadata is not separate from HDR, All PQ HDR content needs metadata to be displayed properly on target device. Metadata cannot turn SDR into HDR, it just ensures that the HDR content is displayed properly since it was mastered on a different display. If you watch it on the display where it was mastered you wouldn’t need metadata.