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Bluepig45

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 28, 2020
98
37
I've owned three Mac Pro computers (4 if you count the Power Mac); the Power Mac G5, the 2010 Mac Pro, the Mid 2012 version, and finally the affectionately named Trashcan. All of them were starter, lowest configured units, as I did not need more. All of them were very functional pieces of art, not one of which still hangs on my wall. How is a person who is now relegated to hobby web stuff supposed to justify a $6k starting price? No, I'm not asking for permission, just a technical justification when a comparable PC will run you $2,500 (home built) to $3,500 with a big name on the box.

Don't get me wrong, my Midi-chlorians are pushing me toward the dark side, but every time I pull my wallet out, I start thinking new truck or Mac Pro?
 

ssgbryan

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,488
1,420
You don't.

The 7,1 was designed primarily for Hollywood video production houses.

The base model is around $1500 in parts - the other $4500 is for the case and the Apple Tax. The technical justification is:

1. Because Apple can.
2. You are chained to the OSX ecosystem.

And keep in mind, the base model is out performed by mainstream AMD CPUs (Ryzen), not the HEDT CPUs (Threadripper).

Look at what you actually use your computer for. Does the 7.1 fit? If not, you can either hold with what you have, or move onto a system that actually works for you (iMac "Pro", mini, or a laptop - or you can move to Windows 10).

I went to a Ryzen system myself (12 cores/24 thread system for $1400). It was a great 20 year run, but Tim doesn't want me as a customer. And that is fine by me. I have a new, much faster system than the Mac Pro I am retiring, and more importantly, because I have left Apple desktop ecosystem, I am now much more productive in what I use my computer for (3d Art).
 

Bluepig45

macrumors member
Original poster
Mar 28, 2020
98
37
You don't.

The 7,1 was designed primarily for Hollywood video production houses.

The base model is around $1500 in parts - the other $4500 is for the case and the Apple Tax. The technical justification is:

1. Because Apple can.
2. You are chained to the OSX ecosystem.

And keep in mind, the base model is out performed by mainstream AMD CPUs (Ryzen), not the HEDT CPUs (Threadripper).

Look at what you actually use your computer for. Does the 7.1 fit? If not, you can either hold with what you have, or move onto a system that actually works for you (iMac "Pro", mini, or a laptop - or you can move to Windows 10).

I went to a Ryzen system myself (12 cores/24 thread system for $1400). It was a great 20 year run, but Tim doesn't want me as a customer. And that is fine by me. I have a new, much faster system than the Mac Pro I am retiring, and more importantly, because I have left Apple desktop ecosystem, I am now much more productive in what I use my computer for (3d Art).


Generically I'm right there with you. I've purchased them in the past because I can, not because I needed them. My primary ecosphere is Windows, and that is where I produce business creativity. In the past I've used Apple for sound and video production on a very amateur level. I've built systems since 1988 and have put out a few pretty heavy duty systems, one for a friends Grandson who was in a graphics program in central Florida. His friends would do their renders on his system because it was faster than the ones in the lab.

To your points:
1. Amen, but I wonder how the economic downturn (Covid) will effect Apple's bottom dollar, and if they will devolve to a more economical street value?
2. Amen, not unlike my iPhone 11. Apple's motto should be "it's our way or the highway." As part of my corporate solution prior to retiring in 2014 I used iPhones because they were company issued. When I left I switched to Samsung's and the Android OS. Not that I like anything to do with Google, but as to flexibility Android gives you nearly limitless customization. Apple gives me either 4 or 5 icon wide home screens.

But... that computer is so damn sexy! Hearing my monkey brain talking.
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Generically I'm right there with you. I've purchased them in the past because I can, not because I needed them. My primary ecosphere is Windows, and that is where I produce business creativity. In the past I've used Apple for sound and video production on a very amateur level. I've built systems since 1988 and have put out a few pretty heavy duty systems, one for a friends Grandson who was in a graphics program in central Florida. His friends would do their renders on his system because it was faster than the ones in the lab.

To your points:
1. Amen, but I wonder how the economic downturn (Covid) will effect Apple's bottom dollar, and if they will devolve to a more economical street value?
2. Amen, not unlike my iPhone 11. Apple's motto should be "it's our way or the highway." As part of my corporate solution prior to retiring in 2014 I used iPhones because they were company issued. When I left I switched to Samsung's and the Android OS. Not that I like anything to do with Google, but as to flexibility Android gives you nearly limitless customization. Apple gives me either 4 or 5 icon wide home screens.

But... that computer is so damn sexy! Hearing my monkey brain talking.
Ps. I'm back on iPhone because my kids are all over, and Apple has video chatting down pat with Facetime. I no longer need the flexibility of Android, so I'm back in Apples over bearing care.
 

Korican100

macrumors 65816
Oct 9, 2012
1,213
617
i will also add that the hefty apple tax also includes your freedom to upgrade in the future as this is a very modular machine. Something all other computers in their portfolio cannot offer.

So within the next decade, this machine will be able to change accordingly to your personal demands and the technology available.
 
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mattspace

macrumors 68040
Jun 5, 2013
3,344
2,975
Australia
i will also add that the hefty apple tax also includes your freedom to upgrade in the future as this is a very modular machine. Something all other computers in their portfolio cannot offer.

So within the next decade, this machine will be able to change accordingly to your personal demands and the technology available.

the freedom to update to a very specific list of overpriced, underperformant parts from Apple, or alternatively third parties, if you don't mind losing basic reliability for sleep / wake etc.
 
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ssgbryan

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,488
1,420
i will also add that the hefty apple tax also includes your freedom to upgrade in the future as this is a very modular machine. Something all other computers in their portfolio cannot offer.

So within the next decade, this machine will be able to change accordingly to your personal demands and the technology available.

That assumes that drivers will be written for any expansion cards. Any 3rd party is going to look at how many 7,1s are sold before they commit to writing drivers. Nvidia is still out. How long will you have to wait for USB4 cards?

Still going to be on PCIe 3.0.

Still going to be on a dead socket.

This machine made a lot more sense in 2017.
 

endlessike

macrumors member
Jun 8, 2010
80
72
That assumes that drivers will be written for any expansion cards. Any 3rd party is going to look at how many 7,1s are sold before they commit to writing drivers.

It would be trivial for Apple to ensure proper drivers are developed for MacOS the next time it inks a supply deal with AMD (or NVIDIA).

Apple moves enough units of iMacs and MacBooks that they could make that happen.
 

jinnyman

macrumors 6502a
Sep 2, 2011
762
671
Lincolnshire, IL
i will also add that the hefty apple tax also includes your freedom to upgrade in the future as this is a very modular machine. Something all other computers in their portfolio cannot offer.

So within the next decade, this machine will be able to change accordingly to your personal demands and the technology available.
Well I'm not so sure mate. The future upgradability depends on an assumption that Apple will continue to provide updated drivers for newer parts. With ARM around corner with ever increasing snippets of rumors, I'm not so sure. They may keep providing macOS upgrade for foreseeable future, but what about a new hardware upgrade and the drivers?

Can you be sure? What if, just like what happened to 6,1, 7,1 is the end for another 10 years with no updated drivers? I guess they probably provide continued support for another 1~2 years, but their track record on this is slim. Apple should be very clear about their future roadmap if they want to keep serious business players. With the ARM rumors, I would be bothered enough to reconsider shelling out the money unless you are a truly big player who can afford the machine for one or two projects.
 

ssgbryan

macrumors 65816
Jul 18, 2002
1,488
1,420
It would be trivial for Apple to ensure proper drivers are developed for MacOS the next time it inks a supply deal with AMD (or NVIDIA).

Apple moves enough units of iMacs and MacBooks that they could make that happen.


Let us know how those Nvidia drivers are working out.

Oh, wait.....


You do realize that slots are used for more than video cards, right?
 

codehead1

macrumors regular
Oct 31, 2011
117
98
I think it would be going too far to overstate the target audience as "video editors". (I'm not saying anyone here did.) But doing do would make it difficult to justify the cost, compared to the alternatives. It makes it very easy to dismiss the importance of wanting to run OS X, for one thing, and it makes it easy to bring up AMD as an alternative processor. When you pay for a computer or phone from Apple, you are paying for the OS, as Apple hammered that home many years ago when they stopped charging for it separately. If you're doing 3D rendering, the OS may be completely unimportant to you, so a Mac Pro looks like a spectacularly bad choice. (Personally, I've used Windows and Mac OS daily for decades—for my personal projects, it's worth a lot to me to be away from Windows. YMMV. And no, I'm not going to dick with a hackintosh and running "most" things, and for I'm not sure how long. Time is money.) BTW, also, for some it's not just video editing, but FCPX editing.

If the goal is Mac OS, for most people an iMac is the way to go. Or an iMac Pro for some. For me personally, a quiet computer is worth a huge price premium. iMac Pro would be the minimum I'd consider for power + quiet. But I don't like the lack of expandability, I'd prefer any fan noise whatsoever to not be within a foot or two fo my head, and the difficulty of expandability with the iMac Pro is a negative. But the thing that clinches the deal is that once I configure an iMac Pro with everything I want, it's just not that far from a new Mac Pro, and it's not exactly the monitor configuration I want.

And on the noise front, Apple's pricey reconfiguration of video cards to get rid of fans is a plus for me, not a minus.

Sure, I wish Apple either lopped a few $k off the price, or came out with something at half the price that had most of the good points. Unfortunately, no other company came out with one either. Haven't bought yet, probably would have right away if the X5700X were an option.
 

Schismz

macrumors 6502
Sep 4, 2010
343
395
Sure, I wish Apple either lopped a few $k off the price, or came out with something at half the price that had most of the good points.

It's been mentioned, but... Apple didn't. Just using a regular case would have accomplished it and they could still have tacked the Apple Tax on top of it and made some profit. Obviously they decided not to position the Mac Pro aimed at any target demographic except the top 1% - .1% in terms of cashflow/needs, because nobody else is going to buy it.

Which is exactly what Apple seems to want. "There's Cheesegrater, that's what 'you' (professionals) asked for, go buy it, or don't, we'll update it again in another half-decade." It's over in supercar/halo effect category. They obviously want to sell fewer units rather than more, and push everybody who doesn't urgently need it or has a larger than average disposable income, away from box with slots, towards iMacs -- or out of the Apple ecosystem altogether, "FU Apple! <shaking fist at sky> I'm gonna buy a Threadripper with liquid cooling, NOS Injection and a supercharger, for $12" ... but continue using your iCrap, and services. Honestly I don't know anybody who needed Mac Pro, that didn't already leave Apple around release of trashcan. I know a lot of individuals and production houses that still have 5,1s and 6,1s in use, but can think of none that solely rely upon them at this point.

Mac Pro 7,1 looks incredibly cool, albeit opinions are always subjective. It will also generate endless conversations/attention, from people who are never going to buy it or contribute .5 cents to Apple's bottom line via this specific product, and I think Apple is well aware of this.

Generically I'm right there with you. I've purchased them in the past because I can, not because I needed them.

To your points:
1. Amen, but I wonder how the economic downturn (Covid) will effect Apple's bottom dollar, and if they will devolve to a more economical street value?

But... that computer is so damn sexy! Hearing my monkey brain talking.

It looks like they're already trying that with new MacBook Air, iPad, etc. If the entire world economy crashes and we enter a recession (highly likely), despite its massive cash reserves, Apple still needs to sell products to somebody. But I wouldn't hold my breathe waiting for Mac Pro. If there's a recession, they will just let it sit without upgrades longer (so half a decade at least, instead of possible upgrade in 3 years).

I've owned three Mac Pro computers (4 if you count the Power Mac); the Power Mac G5, the 2010 Mac Pro, the Mid 2012 version, and finally the affectionately named Trashcan. All of them were starter, lowest configured units, as I did not need more. All of them were very functional pieces of art, not one of which still hangs on my wall. How is a person who is now relegated to hobby web stuff supposed to justify a $6k starting price? No, I'm not asking for permission, just a technical justification when a comparable PC will run you $2,500 (home built) to $3,500 with a big name on the box.

Don't get me wrong, my Midi-chlorians are pushing me toward the dark side, but every time I pull my wallet out, I start thinking new truck or Mac Pro?

The p0w3r of the Dark Side is Shiny! Also, it's return of cheesegrater!

At the end of the day: be happy for 1st world problems. Many here can coast for years, decades, or forever; then go on shopping spree whenever stock market craters into sub-basements and hits somewhere near final bottom, but on the flipside of this headspace/life situation, it seems like half of America lives from paycheck to paycheck and is freaking out about how to buy food and pay their rent next month a lot more. I believe that most of planet Earth is over in this category. Mac Pro reboot was green-lighted during "strong" economy at absolute height of stock market and Apple's profitability/valuation. Right now I doubt anybody would green-light the project and their full focus will be on the low-end, and ensuring somebody out there is buying the next generation of all the iCrap which is what floats Apple's market cap.

If you're not a video editor or married to macOS ecosystem and small handful of programs that benefit from Mac Pro, and need further help with rationalization, here's a good review of 28-core from someone who is not in entertainment industry:


The question would be: do you need a new truck or a new Mac Pro? If you *need* neither, and can't justify cash outlay for both simultaneously, which do you want more? If you need even further help with rationalization, well hey, you can keep Mac Pro going for a decade if necessary and upgrade it with myriad 3rd party parts which don't exist yet. Apple kept official support going for 5,1 for literally a decade.

Cheers, and good luck getting over on yourself and rearranging the content of your headspace until it seems like a good idea to push the [BUY!] button. <Passing you pitcher of Apple Koolaid> ...just keep staring at it. Let the lattice hypnotize you. It's based upon a naturally-occurring phenomenon in crystal structures. You need that. It will make you 900% more creative & generate over 27 times your current cashflow, while releasing 3x as much dopamine every time you get within 5 feet of it.

 
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