Help! Mac Pro 5,1 Power Issues

[Lord Blackadder]

I’ve had an issue with my Mid-2010 Mac Pro (5.,1) for over a year now…the machine still runs fine when it is on, but has the issues with startup/sleep described below. I’ve spent many hours reading posts on the Apple Support community, Macrumors, and elsewhere. From what I have gathered, nobody seems to understand why the computer behaves this way, and people inevitably end up replacing their PSU to fix the problem.

Has anyone ever discovered the cause of this type of problem and/or can anyone suggest a fix other than replacing the PSU? Given that I now have to buy a new (Metal compatible) video card in order to upgrade the OS to Mojave, I really can't afford to also get a refurb PSU at the same time. I am hoping to find a less drastic fix if possible.

EDIT: I found this cryptic and very unhelpful discussion relating to what seems to be the same symptoms, but the solution is articulated so poorly in the post I don't understand what they are talking about. How does the power button "change to a sleep button", and if so how does one change it back? This sounds like the power management changes implemented in Mavericks, but I'm not sure it's relevant anyway:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6646621

Issues

1. Computer will not power on when power button is pressed (push button relay clicks, then nothing)
2. To power on, I must hold down the power button for several seconds until relay click is heard, release power button, then press power a second time and the computer will power on.
3. However, IF the computer has recently been shut down (i.e. the machine is warm and has been running), hitting the power button once will immediately turn on the computer (in other words, the power button works normally).
4. Computer will not wake from deep sleep.
5. Computer usually (but not ALWAYS) fails to automatically start up if set to do so.
6. On the rare occasions the computer does start itself up (I had it set to boot up and run backup tasks overnight), it almost always fails to shut itself down if set to do so.

Things I have done to try to fix this problem:

• Check Energy Saver Settings
• Reset NVRAM
• Reset SMC
• Replace backup battery on logic board
• Upgrade OS X (twice, though not an archive and install)
• Remove all disk drives, expansion cards, and memory DIMMS and check they are seated properly
• Innards have been cleaned a dozen times

System

Mac Pro Mid 2010 (MacPro 5,1)
Quad Core 2.8 GHz
24 GB RAM
Radeon HD 5770
Samsung EVO 840 SSD (Boot)
2x Western Digital 2TB HDD
1x Western Digital 1TB HDD
Stock OEM DVD-RW
Inatek USB 3.0 card (Installed long after issues began)
OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan (Issue first surfaced when using OX 10.9 Mavericks)

 

[fhturner]

I'm having similar issues w/ a recently acquired MP4,1 > 5,1. Everything works very well, except the sleep and startup behavior. Actually, the problems really only come about when it has gone to sleep. I'm unable to wake it, then have to hold down the power button to turn it off. At that point, it is as you describe, you can hear the relay click, but nothing happens. A long press-short press combo hasn't worked for me; I'm having to pull the power cord and start over.

I cannot confirm 100% that this issue was present when I first got the eBay-sourced machine, as after initial diagnostics succeeded, I quickly updated the firmware to 5,1 then 0089 then 140.0.0.0.0, upgraded to X5680 6-core, and installed an RX 580 and Mojave. But I'm pretty certain it was already doing this— the machine came w/ 3 screws rattling around inside it, the plate behind the DVD drive (covering the power supply cable) missing, and both screws for the power supply behind the DVD drive missing (1 was included in the 3 rattling around, so I reinstalled it). So I think a previous owner or the ecycling seller performed or attempted a power supply replacement, likely due to experiencing the same issue.

I wonder if it could be something corrupted in firmware or NVRAM. @tsialex has observed quite a lot of this and fixed some boot ROMs in other threads. Alex, might this possibly be a symptom of corrupted boot ROM?

Also, so far, mine seems to only have trouble when coming up from what appears to be true hibernation (your "deep sleep" probably). I might tinker w/ the pmset command and see if I can have it sleep normally but not hibernate.

Fred
[doublepost=1546749382][/doublepost]Nevermind on the last bit about hibernation. Mine is set to hibernatemode = 0, which means "plain old sleep", and it does not write a sleep image to the disk in /var/vm. But it sure does seem to be more problematic the longer it sleeps...

 

[tsialex]

I'm having similar issues w/ a recently acquired MP4,1 > 5,1. Everything works very well, except the sleep and startup behavior. Actually, the problems really only come about when it has gone to sleep. I'm unable to wake it, then have to hold down the power button to turn it off. At that point, it is as you describe, you can hear the relay click, but nothing happens. A long press-short press combo hasn't worked for me; I'm having to pull the power cord and start over.

I cannot confirm 100% that this issue was present when I first got the eBay-sourced machine, as after initial diagnostics succeeded, I quickly updated the firmware to 5,1 then 0089 then 140.0.0.0.0, upgraded to X5680 6-core, and installed an RX 580 and Mojave. But I'm pretty certain it was already doing this— the machine came w/ 3 screws rattling around inside it, the plate behind the DVD drive (covering the power supply cable) missing, and both screws for the power supply behind the DVD drive missing (1 was included in the 3 rattling around, so I reinstalled it). So I think a previous owner or the ecycling seller performed or attempted a power supply replacement, likely due to experiencing the same issue.

I wonder if it could be something corrupted in firmware or NVRAM. @tsialex has observed quite a lot of this and fixed some boot ROMs in other threads. Alex, might this possibly be a symptom of corrupted boot ROM?

Also, so far, mine seems to only have trouble when coming up from what appears to be true hibernation (your "deep sleep" probably). I might tinker w/ the pmset command and see if I can have it sleep normally but not hibernate.

Fred
[doublepost=1546749382][/doublepost]Nevermind on the last bit about hibernation. Mine is set to hibernatemode = 0, which means "plain old sleep", and it does not write a sleep image to the disk in /var/vm. But it sure does seem to be more problematic the longer it sleeps...

This is simple to test, do a bootROM dump with ROMTool, then flash the MP51.fd from 10.14.1/10.14.2.

Obviously, you will lose access to iCloud/iMessage/FaceTime while using the generic BootROM, but will do nicelly for a sleep test. Flash back the original dump after testing.

 

[startergo]

I’ve had an issue with my Mid-2010 Mac Pro (5.,1) for over a year now…the machine still runs fine when it is on, but has the issues with startup/sleep described below. I’ve spent many hours reading posts on the Apple Support community, Macrumors, and elsewhere. From what I have gathered, nobody seems to understand why the computer behaves this way, and people inevitably end up replacing their PSU to fix the problem.

Has anyone ever discovered the cause of this type of problem and/or can anyone suggest a fix other than replacing the PSU? Given that I now have to buy a new (Metal compatible) video card in order to upgrade the OS to Mojave, I really can't afford to also get a refurb PSU at the same time. I am hoping to find a less drastic fix if possible.

EDIT: I found this cryptic and very unhelpful discussion relating to what seems to be the same symptoms, but the solution is articulated so poorly in the post I don't understand what they are talking about. How does the power button "change to a sleep button", and if so how does one change it back? This sounds like the power management changes implemented in Mavericks, but I'm not sure it's relevant anyway:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6646621

Issues

1. Computer will not power on when power button is pressed (push button relay clicks, then nothing)
2. To power on, I must hold down the power button for several seconds until relay click is heard, release power button, then press power a second time and the computer will power on.
3. However, IF the computer has recently been shut down (i.e. the machine is warm and has been running), hitting the power button once will immediately turn on the computer (in other words, the power button works normally).
4. Computer will not wake from deep sleep.
5. Computer usually (but not ALWAYS) fails to automatically start up if set to do so.
6. On the rare occasions the computer does start itself up (I had it set to boot up and run backup tasks overnight), it almost always fails to shut itself down if set to do so.

Things I have done to try to fix this problem:

• Check Energy Saver Settings
• Reset NVRAM
• Reset SMC
• Replace backup battery on logic board
• Upgrade OS X (twice, though not an archive and install)
• Remove all disk drives, expansion cards, and memory DIMMS and check they are seated properly
• Innards have been cleaned a dozen times

System

Mac Pro Mid 2010 (MacPro 5,1)
Quad Core 2.8 GHz
24 GB RAM
Radeon HD 5770
Samsung EVO 840 SSD (Boot)
2x Western Digital 2TB HDD
1x Western Digital 1TB HDD
Stock OEM DVD-RW
Inatek USB 3.0 card (Installed long after issues began)
OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan (Issue first surfaced when using OX 10.9 Mavericks)

I had the exactly same behavior. The solution: replaced the PSU. Most likely the capacitors start failing. I even started checking them with an ESR meter and a multimiter, but there are so many of them, that I gave up. All that I managed to check were within their specs.

 

[fhturner]

This is simple to test, do a bootROM dump with ROMTool, then flash the MP51.fd from 10.14.1/10.14.2.

Obviously, you will lose access to iCloud/iMessage/FaceTime while using the generic BootROM, but will do nicelly for a sleep test. Flash back the original dump after testing.

How do I make ROMTool use the MP51.fd file? I've copied the .fd file out of the 10.14.2 installer Resources, but it is greyed out when choosing the BootROM.

Also, can you refresh me/us on the .zip password for ROMTool? I already had it, but sometimes I might not have easy access to my server w/ the program.

 

[tsialex]

How do I make ROMTool use the MP51.fd file? I've copied the .fd file out of the 10.14.2 installer Resources, but it is greyed out when choosing the BootROM.

Also, can you refresh me/us on the .zip password for ROMTool? I already had it, but sometimes I might not have easy access to my server w/ the program.

Just rename .fd to .bin.

Password #2458

 

[fhturner]

Just rename .fd to .bin.

Password #2458

Ah, just rename...of course! Hahaha!

Thx for passwords.

I imagine @startergo is correct in that it is a power supply issue. Going to try the generic ROM if I can, but right now, I'm having a hard time even getting the machine to start up. Pretty sure what I'm seeing would be before anything firmware or software loaded. After most recent sleep crash, I cannot even get it to start back up and chime...

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Thanks for the suggestions! @tsialex and @fhturner, if you turn anything up on the ROM issue please post here and let us know.

It would be nice to at least identify whether this is a hardware or software problem, and ideally what kind of problem it is.

Components wear out - I get it, this computer is now over 8 years old. On the other hand, it is annoying to have a half-broken PSU. If my only option is a new PSU so be it, but I am still hoping to find another solution.

 

[fhturner]

This is simple to test, do a bootROM dump with ROMTool, then flash the MP51.fd from 10.14.1/10.14.2.

Okay, may need a little help w/ this one. I dumped the existing ROM, renamed MP51.fd to MP51.bin, flashed that (ROM Tool said successfully so), and rebooted. Now I get startup chime, but nothing else. I've tried getting into Recovery Mode, to no avail. I have the RX 580 in now, so no boot screen...I guess my next step will be to swap GT120 back in. Any suggestions on what to do? Have I bricked this machine??

 

[startergo]

Okay, may need a little help w/ this one. I dumped the existing ROM, renamed MP51.fd to MP51.bin, flashed that (ROM Tool said successfully so), and rebooted. Now I get startup chime, but nothing else. I've tried getting into Recovery Mode, to no avail. I have the RX 580 in now, so no boot screen...I guess my next step will be to swap GT120 back in. Any suggestions on what to do? Have I bricked this machine??

Can you try 4 NVRAM resets?

 

[fhturner]

Sorry for the delayed follow-up on this, but wanted to let y'all know what I found. Turns out the non-booting in post #9 was simply due to the generic ROM flashing reverting back to a 10.11 boot partition that I had on the main SSD. Once I got it booting back to 10.13 & 10.14, I was ok.

But I found that the behavior didn't change w/ the generic Boot ROM, so I flashed back to the existing ROM. It has gotten harder and harder to get the machine started...I'm nearly certain it is power supply. I have gotten a partial refund from the seller, so I'll figure out how I want to proceed and let y'all know if I do a power supply swap on it.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Thanks for the update, @fhturner.

Also, if anyone has a good recommendation on where to buy a replacement power supply for the MP 5,1, please post it here.

I am especially curious as to whether I can get my hands on a brand new old stock (NOS) power supply, rather than a refurbished one. So far the power supplies I have seen for sale are either pulled from a parted out machine or refurbished.

 

[bsbeamer]

Have bought parts from DV Warehouse in the past. They used to have a "NEW" version of part 661-5449, but now only refurbs (which they list as 661-5449-R) are in stock.

Technically part 661-5011 should work as well (2009 power supply), which also gets listed as 614-0435 (and several others). All of these part number designations are due to the server versions of MP4,1 and MP5,1 that were sold after XSERVE was stopped. Believe they are all interchangeable and that was confirmed in a post several months ago somewhere on this forum.

https://www.dvwarehouse.com/661-5449-Apple-Power-Supply-980W-for-Mac-Pro-2010---2012-p-41767.html
https://www.dvwarehouse.com/661-501...-for-Mac-Pro-Early-2009-614-0435-p-42487.html

 

[1madman1]

I had the same issue a few years back with an unmodified 4,1. Replaced the PSU with a brand new (literally) one and it still happened. Turned out to be the backplane.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

...Turned out to be the backplane.

...and those are even more expensive to replace than the PSU. Ugh.

For the cost of replacing both the backplane and PSU, I can darn near buy a working used Mid 2010 Mac Pro off ebay.

Of course, doing that might just get you two broken Mac Pros.

 

[tsialex]

...and those are even more expensive to replace than the PSU. Ugh.

For the cost of replacing both the backplane and PSU, I can darn near buy a working used Mid 2010 Mac Pro off ebay.

Of course, doing that might just get you two broken Mac Pros.

Backplanes are the cheapest thing today. You can buy a 2010/2012 one for around $70, used. With less than $140 you can replace the backplane and tray, if you have a single 2009, for a single 2010/2012. Dual trays are a lot pricier.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Backplanes are the cheapest thing today. You can buy a 2010/2012 one for around $70, used. With less than $140 you can replace the backplane and tray, if you have a single 2009, for a single 2010/2012. Dual trays are a lot pricier.

Good to hear - 5 minutes of Googling showed prices on backplanes at near $200 (DVWarehouse for example), but I didn't look very hard. Where do you see them closer to $70? Used, on ebay?

 

[tsialex]

Good to hear - 5 minutes of Googling showed prices on backplanes at near $200 (DVWarehouse for example), but I didn't look very hard. Where do you see them closer to $70? Used, on ebay?

I bought this one, installed today https://www.ebay.com/itm/Apple-Mac-...rd-Motherboard-639-0461-631-1427/183616438938

 

[1madman1]

What I ended up doing was pick up a 2nd unit with a trashed case on ebay and swapped around parts until I had things working. I put the dead, older and lower end bits together and listed it as an ebay auction. Someone in California then proceeded to pay WAY too much (in my opinion) for the as-is declared dead system with a trashed case.

 

[h9826790]

What I ended up doing was pick up a 2nd unit with a trashed case on ebay and swapped around parts until I had things working. I put the dead, older and lower end bits together and listed it as an ebay auction. Someone in California then proceeded to pay WAY too much (in my opinion) for the as-is declared dead system with a trashed case.

Unless a user 100% sure which part is failed, IMO, buy a whole used cMP for swap test is much much better than just buy a single parts and hopefully it can fix the issue.

Also, if patient enough, usually selling the remaining parts can eventually make some money as well. Make the repair cost effectively zero.

 

[tsialex]

Unless a user 100% which is the figured part, IMO, buy a whole used cMP for swap test is much much better than just buy a single parts and hopefully it can fix the issue.

Also, if patient enough, usually selling the remaining parts can eventually make some money as well. Make the repair cost effectively zero.

For people who lives in countries where Mac Pros are now cheap on the used market, this is the best course of action - no doubt.

Here, seems everyone selling Mac Pros thinks that the aluminium is silver… So I have to resort to importing parts.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Unless a user 100% which is the failured part, IMO, buy a whole used cMP for swap test is much much better than just buy a single parts and hopefully it can fix the issue.

Good point. The risk with that approach is that that the parts that most often fail are most often broken in the parts machine too. But it is always handy to have a (mostly) working parts machine on hand for testing and parts swapping.

 

[h9826790]

Good point. The risk with that approach is that that the parts that most often fail are most often broken in the parts machine too. But it is always handy to have a (mostly) working parts machine on hand for testing and parts swapping.

AFAIK, on the 5,1, only NB rivet is particularly weaker than other parts, but that's super easy to identify and fix.

And so far, from the "ask for help" post here. It seems logic board, CPU tray, PSU, GPU, have roughly the equal chance to have issue. So, as long as buying a whole used Mac which is in working condition. The chance of having a "almost die" same parts shouldn't be that high.

Also, TBH, even you buy only the parts, they are also just extracted from some other 5,1. If your theory hold true, then that parts is still the easiest fail parts. And may be still at the "almost die" stage. Makes no difference than buying a whole used Mac. And even worst, because it's just a parts, but not the whole machine, you have no idea if it's really working or not.

 

[Lord Blackadder]

Also, TBH, even you buy only the parts, they are also just extracted from some other 5,1. If your theory hold true, then that parts is still the easiest fail parts.

That is why I have been trying to source a NOS power supply. Pulled parts are always a gamble. But I do agree with you that buying a spare machine is not a bad idea. I'd prefer to have one - but I simply don't have the cash for that at the moment.

 

[mohnumber7]

I’ve had an issue with my Mid-2010 Mac Pro (5.,1) for over a year now…the machine still runs fine when it is on, but has the issues with startup/sleep described below. I’ve spent many hours reading posts on the Apple Support community, Macrumors, and elsewhere. From what I have gathered, nobody seems to understand why the computer behaves this way, and people inevitably end up replacing their PSU to fix the problem.

Has anyone ever discovered the cause of this type of problem and/or can anyone suggest a fix other than replacing the PSU? Given that I now have to buy a new (Metal compatible) video card in order to upgrade the OS to Mojave, I really can't afford to also get a refurb PSU at the same time. I am hoping to find a less drastic fix if possible.

EDIT: I found this cryptic and very unhelpful discussion relating to what seems to be the same symptoms, but the solution is articulated so poorly in the post I don't understand what they are talking about. How does the power button "change to a sleep button", and if so how does one change it back? This sounds like the power management changes implemented in Mavericks, but I'm not sure it's relevant anyway:

https://discussions.apple.com/thread/6646621

Issues

1. Computer will not power on when power button is pressed (push button relay clicks, then nothing)
2. To power on, I must hold down the power button for several seconds until relay click is heard, release power button, then press power a second time and the computer will power on.
3. However, IF the computer has recently been shut down (i.e. the machine is warm and has been running), hitting the power button once will immediately turn on the computer (in other words, the power button works normally).
4. Computer will not wake from deep sleep.
5. Computer usually (but not ALWAYS) fails to automatically start up if set to do so.
6. On the rare occasions the computer does start itself up (I had it set to boot up and run backup tasks overnight), it almost always fails to shut itself down if set to do so.

Things I have done to try to fix this problem:

• Check Energy Saver Settings
• Reset NVRAM
• Reset SMC
• Replace backup battery on logic board
• Upgrade OS X (twice, though not an archive and install)
• Remove all disk drives, expansion cards, and memory DIMMS and check they are seated properly
• Innards have been cleaned a dozen times

System

Mac Pro Mid 2010 (MacPro 5,1)
Quad Core 2.8 GHz
24 GB RAM
Radeon HD 5770
Samsung EVO 840 SSD (Boot)
2x Western Digital 2TB HDD
1x Western Digital 1TB HDD
Stock OEM DVD-RW
Inatek USB 3.0 card (Installed long after issues began)
OS X 10.11.6 El Capitan (Issue first surfaced when using OX 10.9 Mavericks)

what did you do finally? what's the problem finally? i've the same.