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1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Hello all, I have been a lurker on this forum for quite some time. And yes, now I need the advice/suggestions/recommendations of the wise sages on the forum. Here are the details. In 2009, I purchased new, a MP 4.1 (A1289. EMC# 2314), 4-core 2.93GHz Xeon processor. Over the years, this little beast has served me very, very well. Over the years, I just used the machine, and increased the RAM to 16GB x 3. In 2017, I updated the video card, to a "flashed Radeon, can't recall the model, but the MP worked even better. Well, in 2018, I thought that the MP4.1 was getting a little long in the tooth, and went about upgrading the CPU. I have some CPU swapping experience from my old MSDOS IBM PC 80286 and math coprocessors days, and have done several CPU upgrades over the years with Windows machines. Anyway I digress, I upgraded my MP4.1 from the OEM Xeon (Nehalem) 2.93GHz W3540, to a Xeon (Westmere) 3.2GHz W3670. Everything went well, going from a 4-core to a 6-core machine. Around that time, I also did the 5.1 Firmware upgrade....all was well with my MP 4.1 (nee 5.1), even was working fine on the old Mac Pro. I believe that I even installed ElCapitan, with good results. Shortly thereafter, a "buddy" of mine (and I use that term very loosely) ran across an Intel Xeon (Gulftown) 3.46GHz W3690 6-core CPU that he couldn't use, and make me a deal for it. I installed it in my Mac, and the machine wouldn't even POST...dead !!! Frustrated with this turn of events and my "buddy," I have let my MP5.1 languish now for about a year. I have been using my traveling buddy, my MBP9.2 in the interim.

Well, recently I decided to resurrect the old MP5.1, I dusted it out, took out the W3690 CPU and reinstalled the W3670 CPU. It was the W3670 that was the last operational CPU that I, now in hindsight, should kept my fat fingers off of and be satisfied. I powered it up today, and still a dead machine. no POST. However, all of the fans work. When I click on the front panel switch, I noticed a single red LED flash once on the the processor tray circuit board located on the left corner (facing me) of the CPU heatsink assembly, the MB printing nearby is DST510. As a result of a Google search for possible reasons/solutions, I removed the processor tray, removed the heat sink assembly, examined the Arctic Silver that I had just applied the day before. I had applied a bit too much, cleaned the CPU and copper heat sink edges. I also removed the processor tray bracket from the circuit board to carefully examine the two Northbridge heat sink spring retainers, they were in good shape, not broken. Put everything back together again, plugged it in, hit the switch....same as before, no POST, all of the fans work.

Any ideas/suggestions/recommendations from the experts on this forum? Other than a couple of good dope-slaps up the side of my head? I am at wits end and am contemplating taking in to a shop, pay The Man for my foolishness...Thanks for reading my tale of woe, and also for any assistance you can render.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
Hello all, I have been a lurker on this forum for quite some time. And yes, now I need the advice/suggestions/recommendations of the wise sages on the forum. Here are the details. In 2009, I purchased new, a MP 4.1 (A1289. EMC# 2314), 4-core 2.93GHz Xeon processor. Over the years, this little beast has served me very, very well. Over the years, I just used the machine, and increased the RAM to 16GB x 3. In 2017, I updated the video card, to a "flashed Radeon, can't recall the model, but the MP worked even better. Well, in 2018, I thought that the MP4.1 was getting a little long in the tooth, and went about upgrading the CPU. I have some CPU swapping experience from my old MSDOS IBM PC 80286 and math coprocessors days, and have done several CPU upgrades over the years with Windows machines. Anyway I digress, I upgraded my MP4.1 from the OEM Xeon (Nehalem) 2.93GHz W3540, to a Xeon (Westmere) 3.2GHz W3670. Everything went well, going from a 4-core to a 6-core machine. Around that time, I also did the 5.1 Firmware upgrade....all was well with my MP 4.1 (nee 5.1), even was working fine on the old Mac Pro. I believe that I even installed ElCapitan, with good results. Shortly thereafter, a "buddy" of mine (and I use that term very loosely) ran across an Intel Xeon (Gulftown) 3.46GHz W3690 6-core CPU that he couldn't use, and make me a deal for it. I installed it in my Mac, and the machine wouldn't even POST...dead !!! Frustrated with this turn of events and my "buddy," I have let my MP5.1 languish now for about a year. I have been using my traveling buddy, my MBP9.2 in the interim.

Well, recently I decided to resurrect the old MP5.1, I dusted it out, took out the W3690 CPU and reinstalled the W3670 CPU. It was the W3670 that was the last operational CPU that I, now in hindsight, should kept my fat fingers off of and be satisfied. I powered it up today, and still a dead machine. no POST. However, all of the fans work. When I click on the front panel switch, I noticed a single red LED flash once on the the processor tray circuit board located on the left corner (facing me) of the CPU heatsink assembly, the MB printing nearby is DST510. As a result of a Google search for possible reasons/solutions, I removed the processor tray, removed the heat sink assembly, examined the Arctic Silver that I had just applied the day before. I had applied a bit too much, cleaned the CPU and copper heat sink edges. I also removed the processor tray bracket from the circuit board to carefully examine the two Northbridge heat sink spring retainers, they were in good shape, not broken. Put everything back together again, plugged it in, hit the switch....same as before, no POST, all of the fans work.

Any ideas/suggestions/recommendations from the experts on this forum? Other than a couple of good dope-slaps up the side of my head? I am at wits end and am contemplating taking in to a shop, pay The Man for my foolishness...Thanks for reading my tale of woe, and also for any assistance you can render.
Do you have access to another Mac Pro 2009 to 2012 to test your tray?

When you press the DIAG button, what LEDs are on and what are off?
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Do you have access to another Mac Pro 2009 to 2012 to test your tray?

When you press the DIAG button, what LEDs are on and what are off?

Thank you for the prompt reply.

I do not have access to another Mac Pro 2009-2012 to test the tray. Though, that sounds like a great idea.

Here is the scheme that appears when I press the DIAG button:

TOP BANK

R1501. -OFF- OVTMP CPU A
R1531. -OFF- OVTMP CPU B
R1640 -GREEN- (1) PSU.
R1540. -YELLOW-(1) 5V. STBY.
R1620. -*****-(2) 3.3V.
R1621. -*****-(2) 1.5V.
R1622. -*****-(2) 1.05V.

----------------------
(1) STEADY COLOR INDICATED
(2) NO LED

BOTTOM BANK


SYS PG -GREEN-(1)
PLT RS. -*****-(2)
RI PG. -*****-(2)
EFI DONE.-GREEN-(1)
GPU OK. -GREEN-(3)
5V -*****-(2)
RSM RST -*****- (2)

------------------------
(1) STEADY COLOR INDICATED
(2) NO LED
(3) FLASHING COLOR INDICATED

Does that help?

Thank you.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
EFI DONE.-GREEN-(1)
GPU OK. -GREEN-(3)
5V -*****-(2)
RSM RST -*****- (2)

------------------------
(1) STEADY COLOR INDICATED
(2) NO LED
(3) FLASHING COLOR INDICATED

Does that help?

Thank you.

Since EFI DONE is lit, you probably have a working backplane, at least a working BootROM. Do you have another GPU? You need an Apple OEM, any original Apple card from 2008 to 2012 (HD 2600XT, 8800GT, Quadro FX 5600, GT120, HD 4870/5770/5870).
 
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1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
This was a upgrade card, that I purchased a couple of years ago. I still have the OEM card. I will remove the Radeon card and put in the OEM and see what happens.

Thanks.
[automerge]1577586989[/automerge]
I will install the OEM card that came with the machine, NVIDIA GeForce GT120.
 
Last edited:
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tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
This was a upgrade card, that I purchased a couple of years ago. I still have the OEM card. I will remove the Radeon card and put in the OEM and see what happens.

Thanks.
[automerge]1577586989[/automerge]
I will install the OEM card that came with the machine, NVIDIA GeForce GT120.
With a GT120 and a working backplane/tray combo you will see at least the Apple logo and the grey screen, even if your HDD is corrupted/without macOS.
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
The OEM card is installed. I turned on the computer. The GPU fan is spinning. I pressed the DIAG button, same pattern as before.
[automerge]1577587852[/automerge]
The installed OEM card is a NVIDIA Geforce GT 120
The monitor is powered up, but is black.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
The OEM card is installed. I turned on the computer. The GPU fan is spinning. I pressed the DIAG button, same pattern as before.
[automerge]1577587852[/automerge]
The installed OEM card is a NVIDIA Geforce GT 120
The monitor is powered up, but is black.
Since you have an Apple OEM GPU now and still have a black screen, you probably have something wrong with your tray. Did you inspected the CPU socket for bent pins?

Btw, a single CPU tray on eBay is around $50. It will be cheaper to buy one to diagnose your Mac Pro than to take your Mac Pro to a technician. Someone here bought a fully working MP4,1 without disks for just $150.
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
I didn't notice any bent pins on the CPU socket. I will check again.

I will check out eBay for a single CPU tray and/or a fully working MP 4.1.

I was thinking of picking another GPU, take a look at this one from eBay. I appreciate your help and opinions.
 

macguru9999

macrumors 6502a
Aug 9, 2006
817
383
You probably have a dead 4,1 backplane board. By all means get another 4,1 tray into it , as a loan , to confirm but backplane issues are a little more common with these models. If i am right then you can either get another backplane off ebay or just buy a cheap 5,1.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
You probably have a dead 4,1 backplane board. By all means get another 4,1 tray into it , as a loan , to confirm but backplane issues are a little more common with these models. If i am right then you can either get another backplane off ebay or just buy a cheap 5,1.
Dead backplanes don't show EFI DONE LED on. My bet is the CPU tray.
 
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1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Dead backplanes don't show EFI DONE LED on. My bet is the CPU tray.
I am tossing it around whether to pick up another CPU tray, or another 4.1 off of eBay? I don't have access to another CPU tray to check whether this one is bad.

What are your thoughts on that Radeon card that I swapped out with the OEM....? it's had it?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
I am tossing it around whether to pick up another CPU tray, or another 4.1 off of eBay? I don't have access to another CPU tray to check whether this one is bad.

What are your thoughts on that Radeon card that I swapped out with the OEM....? it's had it?
Non Apple OEM cards are useless for diagnostics, since the BootROM/AHT/ASD can only work with AppleOEM cards. For now, forget any 3rd party GPU. After you get it going, you install it again and test it.

Since you are in the Seattle area, look at Craigslist and go for the cheapest working MP4,1 or MP5,1, then you can diagnose any part of your Mac Pro yourself. You will probably make more than you spent selling the parts that you don't use on eBay.
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Non Apple OEM cards are useless for diagnostics, since the BootROM/AHT/ASD can only work with AppleOEM cards. For now, forget any 3rd party GPU. After you get it going, you install it again and test it.

Since you are in the Seattle area, look at Craigslist and go for the cheapest working MP4,1 or MP5,1, then you can diagnose any part of your Mac Pro yourself. You will probably make more than you spent selling the parts that you don't use on eBay.

I found a MP4.1 single CPU tray for $50. I have been thinking about your original recommendation. I am leaning to trying that out. Primarily since I didn't have any problems until I started monkeying around with CPU swap outs.... and keep my eye out for a deal on a MP4.1 or MP5.1
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
I found a MP4.1 single CPU tray for $50. I have been thinking about your original recommendation. I am leaning to trying that out. Primarily since I didn't have any problems until I started monkeying around with CPU swap outs.... and keep my eye out for a deal on a MP4.1 or MP5.1
It's probably the tray, if you backplane wasn't working you wouldn't get EFI DONE lit. Check Craigslist, a friend in your area use it a lot for buying Mac Pros.
 
Last edited:

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
It's probably the tray, if you backplane wasn't working you wouldn't get EFI DONE lit. Check Craigslist, a friend in your are use it a lot for buying Mac Pros.

The trouble is that I am right in the middle of Microslop country, Dredmond, home of the Evil Empire is the city next door. There aren't a lot of MacPro folks around these parts. I think I will drop the hammer on the CPU tray, get it on its way.

BTW, I thought that GPU was OK for Mac, it is a Radeon HD 7550 3GB GDRR5 PCIe3.0. Me thinks I got an incorrect match???
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
The trouble is that I am right in the middle of Microslop country, Dredmond, home of the Evil Empire is the city next door. There aren't a lot of MacPro folks around these parts. I think I will drop the hammer on the CPU tray, get it on its way.

BTW, I thought that GPU was OK for Mac, it is a Radeon HD 7550 3GB GDRR5 PCIe3.0. Me thinks I got an incorrect match???
Like I said, only AppleOEM GPUs have the firmware necessary for BootROM/backplane diagnostics and ASD/AHT software to work. PCs GPUs don't work for that at all. Not even the Apple blessed Sapphire Radeon 7950 Mac Edition or eVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition work for that.

Seattle area has lots of Macs, my friend that live there finds everything he needs on Craigslist.
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Like I said, only AppleOEM GPUs have the firmware necessary for BootROM/backplane diagnostics and ASD/AHT software to work. PCs GPUs don't work for that at all. Not even the Apple blessed Sapphire Radeon 7950 Mac Edition or eVGA GTX 680 Mac Edition work for that.

Seattle area has lots of Macs, my friend that live there finds everything he needs on Craigslist.
Well, I dropped the hammer on the CPU tray. It is coming from Wisconsin. But with the holidays and all, it may take a bit. That's OK, This old MP4.1 (nee 5.1) has been sitting around here broke for over a year, a little while longer won't matter too much.

This is the GPU I am eyeing, https://www.ebay.com/itm/191906354734 . That GT120 that I kept as a backup is quaint, though I am glad that I saved it....for diagnostics.

So how are those diagnostic LEDs supposed to display, all solid green? no flashing yellow or green?
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
OOPS, I think that I may have run afoul of the TOS here at Mac Rumors..... Don't tell me links to Ebay are forbidden? I got a not saying that my last message was waiting for mod approval.
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
OOPS, I think that I may have run afoul of the TOS here at Mac Rumors..... Don't tell me links to Ebay are forbidden? I got a not saying that my last message was waiting for mod approval.
For newbies, yes, eBay links get moderated.
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
OOPS, I think that I may have run afoul of the TOS here at Mac Rumors..... Don't tell me links to Ebay are forbidden? I got a not saying that my last message was waiting for mod approval.

Alrighty then, let this newbie use a different tact.

Well, I dropped the hammer on the CPU tray. It is coming from Wisconsin. But with the holidays and all, it may take a bit. That's OK, This old MP4.1 (nee 5.1) has been sitting around here broke for over a year, a little while longer won't matter too much.

I found a Genuine Apple ATI Radeon HD 5870 1GB Graphic Video Card for Mac Pro 3.1, 4.1, 5.1 for reasonable price, I think I am going to keep my eye on it.

So how are those diagnostic LEDs supposed to display, all solid green? no flashing yellow or green?
 

tsialex

Contributor
Jun 13, 2016
13,437
13,581
Well, I dropped the hammer on the CPU tray. It is coming from Wisconsin. But with the holidays and all, it may take a bit. That's OK, This old MP4.1 (nee 5.1) has been sitting around here broke for over a year, a little while longer won't matter too much.

This is the GPU I am eyeing, https://www.ebay.com/itm/191906354734 . That GT120 that I kept as a backup is quaint, though I am glad that I saved it....for diagnostics.
This GPU works up to High Sierra, forget it. It's very hot and underperforming for today's standards. Get your Mac Pro working with your GT120, then get a PC version of AMD RX 480/580 for around $120 on eBay.

So how are those diagnostic LEDs supposed to display, all solid green? no flashing yellow or green?
Solid green or solid yellow (amber).
PSU PWROK (green), 5V STBY (amber), EFI DONE (green), GPU OK (green) LEDs illuminated

Follow the diagnostics steps of Apple Technician Manual, page 28 to 33. You can download it here
 
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1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
This GPU works up to High Sierra, forget it. It's very hot and underperforming for today's standards. Get your Mac Pro working with your GT120, then get a PC version of AMD RX 480/580 for around $120 on eBay.


Solid green or solid yellow (amber).


Follow the diagnostics steps of Apple Technician Manual, page 28 to 33. You can download it here

Thanks for the tip about the Radeon GPU. Yes, I was going to hang tough on the GPU until I get the system up and running again, and then will look for the cards you mentioned. No issues with prior concerns of OEM Apple firmware for diagnostics that you previously mentioned.

I don't recall how I found it, but I did find that Aussie tech manual earlier today, and saved a pdf copy. It looks like a great reference.
 

1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Thanks for the tip about the Radeon GPU. Yes, I was going to hang tough on the GPU until I get the system up and running again, and then will look for the cards you mentioned. No issues with prior concerns of OEM Apple firmware for diagnostics that you previously mentioned.

I don't recall how I found it, but I did find that Aussie tech manual earlier today, and saved a pdf copy. It looks like a great reference.

Thank you so much for assisting me with my MacPro woe. I am looking forward to getting my ol Mac Pro back and running. Hopefully, I can get 'er done... I will drop a line with hopefully a good follow-up report.

Happy New Year !!
 
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1boomer

macrumors member
Original poster
Nov 9, 2015
36
5
Seattle area
Thank you so much for assisting me with my MacPro woe. I am looking forward to getting my ol Mac Pro back and running. Hopefully, I can get 'er done... I will drop a line with hopefully a good follow-up report.

Happy New Year !!



Hey Alex,

The CPU boot tray arrived and it has been installed. it came with 16GB of OWC RAM (4 x 8GB) in slots 1-4. I replaced it with 48 GB of OWC (3 x 16GB) in slots 1-3. I picked up that RAM from OWC during a RAM price dump several years ago. The system boots....YEAH !!! Your diagnosis and remedy where right on!! Thank you!!!

Here are the system preferences:

macOS High Sierra v. 10.13.3
Mac Pro (Early 2009
Processor 2.93GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Memory 48 GB 1066 MHz DDR3
Startup Disk MacPro SSD
Graphics NVIDIA GeForce GT 120 512 MB
Serial number H*****L**PD


Hardware Overview:

Model Name: Mac Pro
Model Identifier: MacPro5.1
Processor Name: Quad-Core Intel Xeon
Processor Speed: 2.93GHz
Number of Processors: 1
Total Number of Cores: 4
L2 Cache (per Core): 256 KB
L3 Cache: 8MB
Memory: 48GB
Processor Interconnect Speed: 4.8 GT/s
Boot ROM Version: MP51.0084.800
SMC Version (system): 1.39f5
SMC Version (processor tray): 1.39f5
Serial number system: as above S/N
Serial number (processor tray): ******************
Hardware UUID: *********************



However, it boots very SLOWLY................. I have reset the PRAM, changed the CMOS battery, uninstalled ESET Cybersecurity. It is getting better, but seems that it wants to work faster, but seems "bogged down" and very slow. I am slowly getting to the point where the spinning color wheel is always appearing.

I think that I have a lot of programs running that I don't use anymore, like ESET. What a power sucker....I have the impression that I have to uninstall some programs. Your thoughts would be appreciated..

Thanks again,
boomer
 
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