Help Needed! Audiophile Setup - Apple Music - Remote Control - Music Servers????

[whyrichard]

HELLO WONDERFUL MAC AUDIOPHILES!!!!


I am going to do an upgrade to the digital end of my audio system.... AND I NEED SOME ADVICE AND GUIDANCE! I LOVE THIS MAC COMMUNITY!!!!!

CURRENT DIGITAL AUDIO SETUP:

• Mac mini "music server"
  • This is my main listening area, the DAC running through various hifi equipment to my B&W 903's
  • running Apple Music 1.2.5.7
    • lossless (playing to my DAC through USB)
  • OSX Monterey 12.6.3, late 2014 (seems to not want to update its software much from here I think its too old)
  • Airfoil (to play to 3 airport expresses via airplay and a bluetooth speaker)
  • Remote Control Apple Music Streaming through OSX screen share when on my Mac, and Screens when on my iPhone iPad (I hate that I need to screen share to access Apple Music Streaming but I can't find a better way)

EQUIPMENT AVAILABLE:

• Apple TV 2nd Gen 4K
  • This is hooked up to my TV and used currently only for streaming from Netflix / criterion / etc
• MacBook Pro 2019 Intel
  • Primary work computer...
  • Will upgrade this soon and so this could serve as a "newer" music server if necessary

I love Apple Lossless, however it is A PAIN to play at home retaining lossless and ease of control and accessibility for guests and family. How
MY QUESTIONS FOR YOU ALL:

• What is the best device to hookup to my USB DAC at my HIFI Audio Setup?
  • 2014 Mac mini? (Current setup is likely too old)
  • 2019 MacBook Pro? (Could soon use this laptop as a newer music server?)
  • Apple TV 4K? (I thought that apple tv's couldn't playback lossless through USB or Optical... is that so? Also, I don't want to have to use my Apple TV remote and tv to control my music... can avoid?)
  • AirPort Express? (I understand these old things playback at less than lossless, I only use them for other parts of my house where hifi isn't necessary)
  • New Mac mini? (It would be great not to have to purchase a new computer)
  • iPad through USB? (This would work, but remote control is an issue...)
• My Priorities Are:
  • Sound Quality: Apple Lossless all the way to the max - USB DAC --->> etc etc....
  • Ease of Control: I am hoping that with the new OSX Sonoma and OSX 18 / TV os etc... can have the type of control over a music server at home such as Spotify's....
  • Access to my old iTunes files
    • I have a bunch of old iTunes cd's ripped to lossless, it would be nice to still be able to access these easily... however it seems it causes more conflict in Apple Music these days...
  • Playback to multiple sources
    • I have 3 airport expresses, two apple tv's, and a bluetooth speaker, all of which I successfully play to from my mini server using Airfoil.

THANK YOU FOR ANY ADVICE YOU ALL HAVE! I hope this information and questions were well enough organized... You all rock. Thank you so much for any help!

 

[Fuga]

I make great use of the iOS and iPadOS app Remote. My iMac in a back room runs my Music. I control it with the Remote app on my iPhone and iPad.

 

[weaztek]

That's what I do as well. But I also use a small, Apple remote to control; pause, volume and skip in addition. Since they removed the IR remote receiver I had to buy an aftermarket IR dongle by flirc. Which was a game-changer for my Mac Mini.

 

[whyrichard]

But with my experience, the remote app does not work with Apple Music only my local iTunes library…

 

[Marco Klobas]

Remote app shows and lets you control Apple Music (streaming) content only if already present in a playlist in your library. You can't browse the Apple Music catalogue like you do directly in the Music app on iOS/iPadOS.

Unfortunately, currently the usability of hi-res Apple Music is limited to a MacOS/iOS/iPadOS –> DAC direct connection.

The only viable solution is an iPad (better suited, IMO, due to the bigger screen real estate in comparison to iPhone) connected via a Lightning to USB Adapter (or, I guess, a USB C to USB B cable with recent iPads carrying USB C port) to a USB DAC.

The caveat is that the connection is wired – you have to sit close to your DAC. You can't roam in the house with the iPad.

Maybe a USB wireless TX/RX combo dongle could provide a wireless connection with proper bandwidth for hi-res streaming. I haven't tried it – I don't know if latency is introduced or what. A somehow cumbersome setup that could work, though.

Keep in mind that even with USB wired connections some DACs are picky regarding drained power and need a power source: usually a powered USB hub placed in between the MacOS/iOS/iPadOS –> DAC chain.

Apple TVs are unfortunately excluded because everything is forcefully resampled to 48 kHz.

If only Apple would consider opening to Roon or expanding AirPlay protocol to hi-res...

 

[DaniTheFox]

Given that the Apple TV operates at 24/48 and macOS exhibits difficulties with automatic switching, iOS or iPadOS remains the only viable option.

Furthermore, we exclude AirPlay and are left with a cable solution.

The Apple TB4 cable offers a maximum length of 3 meters. It is advisable to power the iOS or iPadOS device using the TB4 cable. In this case, a TB4 hub can be utilized as an intermediate device to extend the cable’s length to an additional 3 meters. It is important to note that cascading is possible with TB4, but it requires careful consideration.

I have a 2x2 meter TB3 setup in a small room. Currently, I am utilizing a STAX SR-X9000 to listen to music, indicating that I am already “wired.” Therefore, the other cables do not present any inconvenience.

 

[DaniTheFox]

Currently, there is no Remote App available for iOS or iPadOS to control another device with the same operating system. To access Apple Music, a macOS device is required, either through Sidecar or Universal Control.
Therefore, I have been patiently waiting for over two decades for an audiophile-oriented Apple Music solution.
My hopes are now rekindled with the rumored upcoming concept of an Apple TV. I eagerly anticipate the possibility of 24/192 over HDMI.

 

[DaniTheFox]

I have not tested whether the HDMI output from a macOS machine is bit-perfect up to 24/192. However, in my league, HDMI inputs to DACs are quite rare. The HV-Series from T+A could be a potential solution.

 

[gigatoaster]

Have you heard about Roon? It’s not Apple Music but if you have already a library of lossless files, that could be a better alternative. It’s expensive, though.

 

[DaniTheFox]

With Roon, you can exclusively use its application only within your home. However, its use outside of your home, such as during commutes, at the workplace, or on holidays, would be impossible.

As a long-time Apple enthusiast, particularly since the Macintosh era, I would not consider any alternative solutions such as Spotify Connect or Tidal Connect. In fact, I would not even entertain the idea if it required me to compromise my fundamental principles on privacy.

 

[gigatoaster]

With Roon, you can exclusively use its application only within your home. However, its use outside of your home, such as during commutes, at the workplace, or on holidays, would be impossible.

As a long-time Apple enthusiast, particularly since the Macintosh era, I would not consider any alternative solutions such as Spotify Connect or Tidal Connect. In fact, I would not even entertain the idea if it required me to compromise my fundamental principles on privacy.

It’s possible now with Roon Arc. Re privacy, I don’t think there are more or less risks, whether it’s Apple, Spotify, Tidal or Roon.

 

[Regulus67]

I recently purchased a refurbished mac mini M1 for use as my main music server. Never had a mac mini before.
I connected it to my Pioneer VSX-520 with HDMI. Using Audirvāna Origin (not the Studio version) and the remote app on an iPad.

 

[Reality4711]

This looks like the thread I need. BUT. Most of what I read is non sensible to this ignoramus !!!!

The goal was to play my hifi(has bluetooth) from an iOS with my Tunes library and radio apps. But - found iPad & iPhone file compression (132gb on Mac reduced to 75gb on iPad/Phone) audibly poor on hifi.
Apple said compression normal (no matter the storage available) on iOS kit.

So simple question - How do I get 132gb of music on an iOS product from my Mac without quality loss (AAC) so that I can use bluetooth connection to hifi?

Please remember "simple explanation" as words like 'server', and any other non Apple software tends to addle this poor old brain!!!!

 

[Marco Klobas]

Bluetooth for now is a lossy audio format. There's not enough bandwidth to carry a lossless audio. In the future it might change with new protocols/compressions involved. Currently you can't get proper Hi-Fi audio (strictly speaking) through bluetooth.

 

[Reality4711]

Bluetooth for now is a lossy audio format. There's not enough bandwidth to carry a lossless audio. In the future it might change with new protocols/compressions involved. Currently you can't get proper Hi-Fi audio (strictly speaking) through bluetooth.

Well that's a good start - thank you.
OK - so is an old Mac mini (server) connected through aux socket on my amp the answer?
nb:- found the 'remote' app setup on my iPhone instructions to be complete 'gobble-de-gook' so server+iOS remote looks very very daunting.

 

[Marco Klobas]

If your Hi-Fi setup has a DAC with an USB input you can connect the Mac via USB directly to the DAC.

Maybe your Mac mini has an optical output. In this case, if your Hi-Fi DAC has a optical input you could do the same as above using the optical input instead of USB.

The third solution would be what you described: via Aux. Not a great option, IMO (mostly due to the volume level check/matching). I'd go the Bluetooth path if Aux is your only option: not optimal as said, still better than Aux.

Sorry for all these acronyms/terms. There's no other way to describe it.

 

[Reality4711]

If your Hi-Fi setup has a DAC with an USB input you can connect the Mac via USB directly to the DAC.

Maybe your Mac mini has an optical output. In this case, if your Hi-Fi DAC has a optical input you could do the same as above using the optical input instead of USB.

The third solution would be what you described: via Aux. Not a great option, IMO (mostly due to the volume level check/matching). I'd go the Bluetooth path if Aux is your only option: not optimal as said, still better than Aux.

Sorry for all these acronyms/terms. There's no other way to describe it.

Going to check the back of my kit tomorrow for connection confirmation. Would have to buy an old 'mini' to do this??
It really should be easier🤨.

 

[Reality4711]

If your Hi-Fi setup has a DAC with an USB input you can connect the Mac via USB directly to the DAC.

Maybe your Mac mini has an optical output. In this case, if your Hi-Fi DAC has a optical input you could do the same as above using the optical input instead of USB.

The third solution would be what you described: via Aux. Not a great option, IMO (mostly due to the volume level check/matching). I'd go the Bluetooth path if Aux is your only option: not optimal as said, still better than Aux.

Sorry for all these acronyms/terms. There's no other way to describe it.

This on the back of my amp.
No idea how to use them, or which mini will connect to them for that matter.
Final fence to jump will be a remote of some sorts.

 

[Reality4711]

A 2012 Mac mini has toslink.

this is the correct cable (I think).
Does anyone know how to setup the mini as a server with remote control of some sorts?

 

[Marco Klobas]

Yes, those are TOSLINK (optical) inputs and the cable you mentioned are the ones to connect an old Mac featuring optical output (through the mini jack output – it's a combo) to the amp.

Problem is that, as said, only old Macs had optical output. Apple, started to remove it years ago. For example, my 2018 Mac mini doesn't carry it. The previous 2014 model had it, if I remember correctly.

You could control the Mac via Remote app on your iOS/iPadOS devices (local files only – forget the streaming service Apple Music).

Now, I haven't understood if you already own an old Mac mini to be used for this purpose or you just have to find one. Either way, honestly it's a cumbersome solution and not future proof. How long will the old Mac mini last? The Remote app will still be supported by Apple in the coming years? OK, nowadays very little is future proof, especially in the digital domain ... you get my point, though.

I'd stick with Bluetooth or, in case, attach a little AirPlay receiver to your amp to improve the audio (forget hi-res until Apple decides to support it). AirPlay works from your past and current mobile devices, it's usable for local and streamed music, the receivers are often affordable and compact, no need for a specific Mac for audio, it's just an added audio source to your amp.

 

[Reality4711]

OK.
What about an Airplay enabled receiver?
Any maker/model stand out??

 

[Marco Klobas]

Yes, an AirPlay enabled receiver could be an option: amplifier and receiver combined. I have no direct experience with them.

I know there're many amp/DAC/network receiver combo devices out there. It's a trend gaining traction in the audio realm. Cambridge Audio, Bluesound, Primare, NAD come to my mind, just to name a few. Plus all those usually video/multichannel oriented brands and a plethora of Chinese brands that popped out lately offering streaming endpoints some of them featuring even the amplification stage.