Help Required, Odd Use Case

[Funkstar2]

Hello everyone!

I run a music production studio which runs a Mac Pro 3,1 as the backbone for everything. It's worked flawlessly for years, and is a wonderful machine. However, as things move on I will need to replace this old rig with something substantially more powerful (and hopefully just as stable).

I need to use a PCI-E audio card - this part isn't negotiable - the studio relies on this piece of hardware to function, regardless of what computer it's plugged into. (Anyone interested, it's a MOTU PCIe-424 card running 4x MOTU 24I/Os)

What are my options? Ideally I'd like to spend under £1500, but I don't mind second hand. I've attached the specs of the current rig, just so you know what my baseline is.

Thanks!

 

[KeesMacPro]

Hi

I think a Mac Pro 5,1 could be the best option:

- an upgraded MP5,1 DUAL with 2X Xeon 6-core is way more powerful than a MP3,1
- you could swap all HDDs, PCIe cards, GPU etc. from the MP 3,1 to the 5,1
- in a MP5,1 all PCIe slots are 2.0 speed
- the MP 5,1 DUAL CPU is easy upgradable
- concerning the budget you could buy a readily upgraded flashed 4,1>5,1 or 5,1 , or buy a basic version and upgrade the CPUs, RAM, NVMe SSDs etc yourself.

There's a Forum dedicated to the MP (1,1-7,1) with lots of threads about upgrading etc.etc:

Mac Pro

Apple's professional workstation

forums.macrumors.com

 

[hobowankenobi]

Yeah...a newer Mac Pro with internal slot would be grand. You said more powerful...how much more? Just CPU...or something else?

A fallback plan could be the right new(er) iMac or Mini with a good TB 3 to PCIe external box, like these. If you found the right Mac, with TB 3 and SSD internally, you should be able to get years out of it. But cheaper/older Macs would likely not give you the performance bump needed.

The external PCI box means you could more easily change Macs, should you need/want to. Only needs to have TB3 and whatever OS you require. If you find a used Mac Pro...should it give you problems, a replacement may be hard to come by.

If you go external, be sure to do homework on requirements and compatibility for your card. There is some variance on power supplies and cooling, mostly aimed at external GPUs.

 

[Simmie]

Hello everyone!

I run a music production studio which runs a Mac Pro 3,1 as the backbone for everything. It's worked flawlessly for years, and is a wonderful machine. However, as things move on I will need to replace this old rig with something substantially more powerful (and hopefully just as stable).

I need to use a PCI-E audio card - this part isn't negotiable - the studio relies on this piece of hardware to function, regardless of what computer it's plugged into. (Anyone interested, it's a MOTU PCIe-424 card running 4x MOTU 24I/Os)

What are my options? Ideally I'd like to spend under £1500, but I don't mind second hand. I've attached the specs of the current rig, just so you know what my baseline is.

Thanks!

I think you're probably better to just keep saving and aim to replace the Mac Pro with a 2019 Mac Pro. The card will just transfer over to the new box, and it should last you another 10 years. Also it's a massive power boost over the machine you're using. If you're not in a rush then that would be the "cleanest" solution.

 

[Funkstar2]

I think you're probably better to just keep saving and aim to replace the Mac Pro with a 2019 Mac Pro. The card will just transfer over to the new box, and it should last you another 10 years. Also it's a massive power boost over the machine you're using. If you're not in a rush then that would be the "cleanest" solution.

I've actually been considering that. The problem is that I am not at all knowledgable (or interested) in computer hardware - so is the base level 2019 Mac Pro a decent machine? I could pay it up over the course of a year without strangling my business too much, but I don't want it to be the case where the base level machine may not be adequate. Can anyone advise?

Yeah...a newer Mac Pro with internal slot would be grand. You said more powerful...how much more? Just CPU...or something else?

A fallback plan could be the right new(er) iMac or Mini with a good TB 3 to PCIe external box, like these. If you found the right Mac, with TB 3 and SSD internally, you should be able to get years out of it...

Do PCIe external boxes require specific drivers? Or does the machine simply integrate it as it would a regular PCI slot?

Hi

I think a Mac Pro 5,1 could be the best option:

- an upgraded MP5,1 DUAL with 2X Xeon 6-core is way more powerful than a MP3,1
- you could swap all HDDs, PCIe cards, GPU etc. from the MP 3,1 to the 5,1
- in a MP5,1 all PCIe slots are 2.0 speed
- the MP 5,1 DUAL CPU is easy upgradable
- concerning the budget you could buy a readily upgraded flashed 4,1>5,1 or 5,1 , or buy a basic version and upgrade the CPUs, RAM, NVMe SSDs etc yourself.

There's a Forum dedicated to the MP (1,1-7,1) with lots of threads about upgrading etc.etc:

Mac Pro

Apple's professional workstation

forums.macrumors.com

Thank you. My concern with that is that it's still quite an old machine, and I'd rather not revisit this topic for another 8-10 years (it's very painful replacing hardware in the studio). Is a 5.1 really significantly more powerful than the 3.1?

Thanks to everyone taking the time to respond so far!

 

[nothingtoseehere]

I've actually been considering that. The problem is that I am not at all knowledgable (or interested) in computer hardware - so is the base level 2019 Mac Pro a decent machine? I could pay it up over the course of a year without strangling my business too much, but I don't want it to be the case where the base level machine may not be adequate. Can anyone advise?

Base Mac Pro is a very decent machine. Exception: The built-in 256 GB SSD is small. But it is easily upgradeable. There is a Macrumors video about it:

https://www.macrumors.com/2020/01/03/mac-pro-adding-ssd-storage/

Upgrading RAM:

https://www.macrumors.com/2019/12/18/mac-pro-ram-demo/

 

[hobowankenobi]

Do PCIe external boxes require specific drivers? Or does the machine simply integrate it as it would a regular PCI slot?

Generally...no. Plug and play. Thunderbolt is basically external PCIe....just like Firewire was external SCSI.

As an example, I run a Mac Mini (older model with TB2) at work with a PCIe Areca RAID controller in a Sonnet External TB2 enclosure. The RAID controller just shows up, same as an internal card. Neither the card nor the Mac know any different. Been running 24/7 for over 3 yeas.

If you had access to any Mac with a TB3 port, you could test with your card, and return the box if the test was a failure for any reason.

I've actually been considering that. The problem is that I am not at all knowledgable (or interested) in computer hardware - so is the base level 2019 Mac Pro a decent machine? I could pay it up over the course of a year without strangling my business too much, but I don't want it to be the case where the base level machine may not be adequate. Can anyone advise?

Current Mac Pros are beasts. I have never seen anything bad about them...other than price. And perhaps limited video card options, but that is only relevant for those doing video-heavy stuff, like 3D CAD or VR or the like.

One other thing to really consider: You mention wanting a machine to last for a decade; with the change from Intel to Apple Silicon coming, if you can, it might be wise to hold off changing for 6-18 months. Odds are that Intel machines will be supported for a few years....but anything over about 5 years is a risk.

If that concerns you (and it would concern me), you have 3 options:

1. Keep your current setup for another year or more, and see what Apple delivers next.
2. Buy a 2019 Mac Pro and hope to stretch it well beyond the end of support (no more OS updates, etc).
3. Buy a transition Mac with an external PCIe box (a newish iMac), knowing you can switch it out in a few years at a much lower cost (compared to a Mac Pro), and hopefully still use the external box with whatever new Macs are available.

All 3 include some risk of ending up down a dead-end road for that specific hardware, or having a failure/need to change at a time not of your choosing.

I would lean towards #3, mainly because I expect the last Intel Mac to be replaced will be the Mac Pro. It could a full 2 years (or more with any delays) before it gets replaced. And buying the very first of any new platform hardware always includes some risk. Often Apple does not really get models right until a second or third iteration. So with #3, you could run your high-end iMac for several years into the new Apple Silicon (AS) era, and watch safely from the sidelines as early adopters wander through the new-hardware minefields.

We don't know what Apple will offer in the new AS age. Odds are good they will be noticeably faster, cooler and quieter than the Intel Macs they replace. Pretty tempting in studio environment. And...nobody can predict, but we may see new product segments beyond the current desktop options: iMac, iMac Pro, Mini, Pro. We just have to wait and see.

 

[hobowankenobi]

Looking at the Sonnet PCI compatibility chart, I don't see your card. The first thing would be to email them and see what it means...not on the chart may mean it is untested. May not mean it won't work, but there would be some risk to test.

Sonnet also recommends contacting the Card manufacturer for compatibility. That probably makes the most sense; if they support any external TB3 devices...or not. If they don't support any...scratch option #3.

 

[ApfelKuchen]

Just in terms of the overall nature of change/obsolescence... You may intend to run the studio with the same PCIe card for another 10 years, but maybe something other than having a new PCIe-equipped Mac or external PCIe box may get in the way of that plan - end of software support, hardware failure of the card (and difficulty finding a replacement in the used equipment market), new must-have capabilities that it can't deliver, etc.

I spent more than 25 years in studios. All three of my principal employers in that time needed to gut/abandon their aging facilities and build new, and I did a fair amount of freelance design/installation work for other facilities. Sometimes, as much as you're invested in a particular piece of major hardware, it comes time to tear it all out and start over. Nothing of this sort stands still, and sometimes wholesale change, as painful as it may be on a short-term basis, can be very rewarding in the long term - new capabilities mean new services, etc.