iPad Pro Hesitation between iPad Pro m4 and new surface pro

[Delivered]

I think something is wrong with me.

I keep getting ready to purchase the new m4 iPad Pro but hesitating at the cart. I’m not out here trying to justify it as a laptop or desktop. I love it for watching things, browsing but mostly for art an animation. While yes I intend if I get good enough to on the side illustrate books at the end of the day it’s a fun relaxation tool for me, like a gaming rig or a sports car for those interested in those things. I have a MacBook Pro and air for all the computing needs. I started with a iPad Air 2 and eventually got the 2018 11inch iPad Pro only to switch it for the M1 12.9 inch with a friend who bought but it was too big for them. So I didn’t pay full price for my when I got it, I liked hover on the M2, but I couldn’t not justify the purchase. I always said that if I could switch to an oled screen, then I would do so I would highly consider getting 16 GB of ram and holding onto that for a while, especially if there was pencil updates along with the OLED. we got that we got pencil upgrades and we got a great screen that if anything shows us that is better than miniLED but that miniLED is good technology too. Everything about this iPad Pro from hardware perspective is not just what I told myself would be my limit to update but actually better. I have not determined storage purchase decisions, although I do lean towards the one terabyte 16 GB ram version that’s because I’m a sucker for Big ram and I cannot lie which is likely worsening sticker shock.

That said seeing surface pro also go OLED on arm with a somewhat performant arm chip has me more on the fence. I’ve never had a surface laptop, but my expectation would be that windows would allow me better gaming opportunities than the iPad and free range of software. The price is better still high but lower than iPad Pro. The surface can function as a tablet but also has full computer capabilities and access to games potentially perhaps more importantly there’s more desktop class art apps.

Anyone here tried the surface pros only to come back to the iPad? My fear is that, Apple has likely evaluated putting desktop in a tablet. Doesn’t really work. You just get a device that’s neither a good computer nor a good tablet but man would it be nice to merge the MacBook Air and iPad Pro.

So looking for anyone that’s gone to surface pro from an iPad (and maybe back) to share their experience. For general use or for art/animation.

 

[Rafterman]

Surface pros are solid machines as laptops, but are only useful as tablets for limited periods, due to weight (2 pounds vs 1.3 for an iPad Pro 13). Many don't like the Surface Pro as a tablet because Windows isn't "optimized" for touch. But that never bothered me, it was the weight and that its hard to hold for anything but the shortest of periods. My own Surface Pro stayed on the desk most of the time, whereas the iPad you are more likely to just grab and go. Especially the 11 inch model, though the 13 is now much lighter than previously.

Surface's aren't very good gaming machines either though light gaming is fine. They just don't have the graphics power. ASUS makes a Surface clone with an Nvidia 4060 in it for heavy gaming, but the battery life isn't great.

Though all that being said, having a full blown OS that can run a world of software is nice. But for Surface, expect a limited tablet performance.

 

[VideoFreek]

Anyone here tried the surface pros only to come back to the iPad?

Yes, I gave the SP a try, but came back to the iPP. I can only reinforce what Rafterman said: the Surface Pro is a fantastic ultraportable laptop, and a mediocre tablet. The iPad Pro is a fantastic tablet, and a mediocre laptop. Both can do double duty, but each excels in a different role. You need to decide what is more important for your use.

 

[sparksd]

Surface pros are sold machines as laptops, but are only useful as tablets for limited periods, due to weight (2 pounds vs 1.3 for an iPad Pro 13). Many don't like the Surface Pro as a tablet because Windows isn't "optimized" for touch. But that never bothered me, it was the weight and that its hard to hold for anything but the shortest of periods. My own Surface Pro stayed on the desk most of the time, whereas the iPad you are more likely to just grab and go. Especially the 11 inch model, though the 13 is now much lighter than previously.

Surface's aren't very good gaming machines either though light gaming is fine. They just don't have the graphics power. ASUS makes a Surface clone with an Nvidia 4060 in it for heavy gaming, but the battery life isn't great.

Though all that being said, having a full blown OS that can run a world of software is nice. But for Surface, expect a limited tablet performance.

Agree. I own a 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 and M4 13" Pro. SP7 = great laptop, iPad = great tablet, some overlap between them.

 

[Rafterman]

Agree. I own a 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7 and M4 13" Pro. SP7 = great laptop, iPad = great tablet, some overlap between them.

I may pick up a maxed out new Surface (that detachable wireless keyboard is a good idea, Apple should steal it). But I don't expect it to replace my iPad. But before buying, I'm waiting for the 5G version of the Surface and will check out reviews of the wireless only version first before deciding. I'm curious bout performance, especially emulation of non-ARM apps. The last ARM Surfaces weren't great in performance of non-ARM apps.

 

[Digitalguy]

I used to be a big surface fan (Surface pro 2, Surface 2, Surface pro 3, Surface 3, then Surface Book 2 15, Surface Book 3 15 and Surface go 2 M3). Still have all of them, but I actively use only the Book 3 and the go 2. Surface Book is an amazing laptop, and surface go is the only true tablet (pro is too heavy). It's extremely light and fanless and does not get hot. It's relatively fast. If they made a go with a Snapdragon X chip or even better the rumored 11" pro with great speakers and 120hz I'd buy it immediately. But the 13in Surface pro, no thanks.

 

[ericwn]

I’m personally not a MS fan but if you are not sure, get both devices and decide on your preference for your specific use case during the return period.

 

[KPOM]

The AI features of the new Surface Pro are tempting. But at 2lbs it’s more of a notebook that can function as a tablet in a pinch.

 

[kitt9000]

I originally wrote some of this in another thread, but I've been a iPad 12.9" M1 cellular user and a surface Pro 8 LTE user. My work is entirely remote and I love the surface to be able to work away from my desktop when needed and felt that the full OS did make it easy to use parallels client to connect to a remote work desktop that my company has set up to access the windows apps we need.

I mostly stopped using my ipad 12.9", esp it being heavier than the surface and having a fairly small and restricting trackpad, and so was originally going to trade in the 12.9" and order an 11" ipad pro with keyboard to do maybe some light work but mainly for entertainment, browsing etc. My plan was also to order the new surface pro snapdragon X-elite ones that Microsoft would release.

Well, MS in their usual pace of things, says 5G version to come later so that was an instant dealbreaker for me at the moment.

I also always tried to tie all the icloud and entertainment eco-system (including my iTunes movies, photos, passwords, bookmarks, etc) onto windows with the icloud software for windows...and while its not bad, its not as integrated obv as having an Ipad or a MAC being able to seemlessly access all the stuff I have in the apple ecosystem over the years. Also Netflix downloads are supposed to be going away on the windows App which stinks since Netflix downloads are usually my main source of entertainment on travel when I dont have internet access.

After seeing how quite mac-like aluminum build the 11" keyboard was, I purchased the 13" Ipp Cellular w/ magic keyboard shortly after and instantly fell in love with the feel of the keyboard, it really is mac-like! and that trackpad.....large and quietttttt. Using remote desktop for work now is just so much better all thanks to the better trackpad and the much more lap-top like feel. I returned the 11" ipp this week, since the 13" ipad + keyboard give me very much a mac-like experience for my usage, is much lighter and with an awesome screen to boot. I use the touch screen daily often to complete and sign many documents that I get throughout the day and I absolutely use 5G for easy and long periods of connectivity when traveling without interruption. So far this ipad gives me 5G, touchscreen, great media capability for entertainment, and such a wonderful mac-like experience.

At this point, I think I can carry the ipad as one device for all my entertainment, work, and for remoting into my windows desktop, and still have the benefits of a laptop-like keyboard and trackpad to navigate around the virtual windows desktop. I also dabbled with realVNC viewer on Ipad and the server software on my home windows device (free for personal use) a couple of nights ago and turns out I can virtually work on my Ipad and control and use my windows computer as if I was directly connected, which is really great!

I do have to add that I generally dont use a tablet hand-held since I just much rather use my pro max phone if I need something that portable. I did like the awesome portability of the 11 inch and how much it can do for its size, but was looking in the end for a more laptop like experience for me.

I may try the surface pro x elite once a 5G version is released (and my current surface pro sitting in a drawer at the moment as backup), but the 13" ipad and the big OLED screen with the nicer magic keyboard allows me to do my work on a remote windows interface, has all access to my icloud stuff, and I think I can use as my one device at the moment. It really is nice!

 

[sleven]

Hesitation Marks

What a great album.

 

[okkibs]

I’ve never had a surface laptop, but my expectation would be that windows would allow me better gaming opportunities than the iPad and free range of software.

A very free range of software such as ads right there on your lockscreen... Windows certainly does gaming better though I wouldn't expect many modern titles to run well, but if you are looking towards less hardware intense games like Animal Well then it might well work great. I just got a Switch for that and a gaming computer that runs demanding titles like BG3 as well. I only like Windows to the extent that it starts Steam and plays my games. And the Windows touch UI whilst usable absolutely requires a pencil for me to be usable.

although I do lean towards the one terabyte 16 GB ram version

Look if the money means nothing to you and you want it just treat yourself, you don't have to justify wanting the best iPad. Of course financially the 16GiB version doesn't make much sense for most people's workloads but if cost was irrelevant I'd get that one too of course. It's cheaper than buying sports cars as a hobby.

You might also want to check out the iPads in person before you buy and see if you like the nanotexture display.

but man would it be nice to merge the MacBook Air and iPad Pro.

That's actually possible, you can use the iPad as the Macbook's display with Sidecar. That way you can switch the iPad to Mac mode any time and back to iPad mode. Buy a Macbook Air as well and remove the display (it's not all that hard to do). You can literally use the Macbook's keyboard and trackpad for the iPad and the iPad as the display. I am considering doing that with the 13" M4 iPad and the 13" Air. The only downside of course is that the 2 parts don't go together until you figure out something janky with magnets or something. Then you have a Macbook Air with an OLED display. Might be worth all the trouble.

 

[Rafterman]

I ordered this for Monday. Imagine a Surface Pro, but with gaming spec (i9, RTX 4050, etc)

ASUS ROG Flow Z13 (2023) Gaming Laptop Tablet, 13.4” Nebula Display 16:10 QHD 165Hz, GeForce RTX 4050, Intel Core i9-13900H, 16GB LPDDR5, 1TB PCIe SSD, Wi-Fi 6E, Windows 11, GZ301VU-DS94,Black

The Z13 tablet is a versatile and powerful device for both work and play. It features a tablet form factor with touchscreen and active stylus support, as well as an included keyboard. The device is powered by a 13th Gen Intel Core Processor and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40 Series, and has lightning-fast...

www.amazon.com

 

[sparksd]

I ordered this for Monday. Ignite a Surface Pro, but with gaming spec (i9, RTX 4050, etc)

ASUS ROG Flow Z13 (2023) Gaming Laptop Tablet, 13.4” Nebula Display 16:10 QHD 165Hz, GeForce RTX 4050, Intel Core i9-13900H, 16GB LPDDR5, 1TB PCIe SSD, Wi-Fi 6E, Windows 11, GZ301VU-DS94,Black

The Z13 tablet is a versatile and powerful device for both work and play. It features a tablet form factor with touchscreen and active stylus support, as well as an included keyboard. The device is powered by a 13th Gen Intel Core Processor and NVIDIA GeForce RTX 40 Series, and has lightning-fast...

www.amazon.com

Nice - report back on what you think of it.

 

[Rafterman]

Nice - report back on what you think of it.

It got good reviews from PC World and a few others, and over 70 percent on Amazon gave it 5 stars.

Weaknesses: battery life (was expected), speakers a little weak. Only 6GB on video (though gaming performance seemed excellent by reviewers - the 4050 laptop GPU runs at 9 tflops, which is pretty decent), only 16GB RAM option (adequate, but not overwhelming).

It comes with the keyboard (hear that, Microsoft?)

It has a door for upgrading the SSD, so I might pop in a 2TB.

 

[okbymeman]

Personally I think you should wait for when (if?) the 5G models of the SP drop in the fall. It feels wrong to have an ultraportable device of that power without this feature.

 

[Rafterman]

Personally I think you should wait for when (if?) the 5G models of the SP drop in the fall. It feels wrong to have an ultraportable device of that power without this feature.

I agree with that. Built in 5G (like on iPads) is very handy if you are on the go a lot, You don't have to tie up your phone to get internet access.

 

[MallardDuck]

Two completely different machines for completely different purposes.

I run a windows machine for real gaming on an nvidia card, but that's the only thing I do on it. Everything else is either on a Mac or on an iPad, because those OS's are vastly better for my particular needs. But note that they can't do everything - so that's the first question, what software do you want to run? If it's just email and such, iPad is fine. If it's lightroom classic so you have local storage, then run Mac or Windows. If it's Office, then the question is do you want everything in the cloud, or on a local filesystem?

In other words, do you want to run windows or iPadOS? That's really the only answer. The hardware is irrelevant, because it's not the experience, the OS and software is. Putting a ferrari engine in a yugo will make it go faster, but it's still a yugo experience.

In my mind Windows is the worst kind of Yugo - the UX is meh, and I'm constantly having to work to remind them that it's my computer not theirs - from their new 'hacker recall' feature that will allow anyone who has access to your machine to see everything that you've ever done (and that can't be uninstalled or completely disabled) to packing the start menu with advertising, to forcing you (unless you hack around it) to have a microsoft account. They're far better than Google, but still a huge distant second to Apple in terms of privacy.

But that's me. For many folks, they'll never run a Mac because it's much more a closed ecosystem, and single hardware vendor. For others the deal breaker is real GPU's.

In the end though, it goes back to the workload. Want AAA games with a real GPU? Windows (or maybe Linux). Doing creative? Mac. Consuming content and light email/doc/etc? iPad.

 

[scorpio vega]

Personally I think you should wait for when (if?) the 5G models of the SP drop in the fall. It feels wrong to have an ultraportable device of that power without this feature.

Eh in a world of hot spot with phones, 5g is largely unnecessary.

Anyway im a surface girl through and through. All the way to the OG pro and even the dead on arrival surface rt lol.

They definitely fit two different niches. My surface pro was my laptop and more portable than a traditional laptop but it’s not something I use much for media. It can be used for media of course but that’s where my iPad Pro comes in.

Love my iPad Pro because it is an extension of my iPhone and Mac so it works in perfect synergy but with the iPad Pro I’m still having to take my Mac for heavy duty work vs my surface it’s a 2 in one.

 

[NewOldStock]

It's all about the OS which is the best fit IMO. And all about the apps used.

 

[Gelam]

One thing to look out for is the new emulation layer that microsoft is implementing.
Mind you that snapdragon X elite reported GPU power is lower than the base M3. That in addition to an emulation layer might bring down the performance of games even further. Emulation has all sorts of unpredictable effects of different apps, from incompatibilities to non correlated performance drops.

Some games might have only a few % performance drops while others runs at 50% from if it was on native machines.
Some games might crash a lot due to incompatibilities, etc.

At least that is my understanding from seeing how rosetta 2 works, so I would not expect the new surface pro to game satisfyingly for now. In the future when more games are ported to ARM windows and snapdragon makes more powerful GPUs then that might be more compelling.

Seeing how the M3 Macbook air can barely run RE4 Remake at low settings, sheesh!

 

[wib]

Oh, I understand your dilemma!

Before the new iPads were released, I was toying with the idea of going the Surface Pro route too. I'm having problems choosing which iPad to go for and briefly glanced at the Surface display as I walking by, but kept on moving, because I don't want to add more complications to this process.

I got an HP laptop with a touchscreen and pencil that can fold around on itself. I was excited to get the pencil! I tried it once as a tablet and hated IT and the pencil, and it's languished in its box ever since.

The upshot and TLDR is, try the pencil (or pen) on the Surface Pro first and see how you like the feel of it. If you want to draw, that's the most important part. I've been suckered in by Apple's pencil (still using the 1st Generation) and love it. I love the idea of the Surface Pro, but would have to try drawing and writing on it before I could make an informed decision.

Edited to add: I tried out the Surface pen (pencil?) today on the last generation. It writes beautifully and smoothly but is a funny, flat design that I would find uncomfortable to hold for any length of time. I also discovered that Procreate is iPad only! In my case, the Surface Pro couldn't replace my Windows laptop and iPad, sadly. It could replace my laptop, but it's much more expensive...

 

[DeepSix]

I may buy the base level SP11 on June 18. Waiting for reviews first. But pricing alone, the value is far better on the Surface. Crazy that you can get a base model Surface Pro plus the last gen keyboard with pen (all brand new) for less than a 13" M4 iPad....and that doesn't even include the pencil pro or a keyboard case.

It just goes to show just how overpriced the new iPads are. 🙄

 

[stumpapi]

I think something is wrong with me.

I keep getting ready to purchase the new m4 iPad Pro but hesitating at the cart. I’m not out here trying to justify it as a laptop or desktop. I love it for watching things, browsing but mostly for art an animation. While yes I intend if I get good enough to on the side illustrate books at the end of the day it’s a fun relaxation tool for me, like a gaming rig or a sports car for those interested in those things. I have a MacBook Pro and air for all the computing needs. I started with a iPad Air 2 and eventually got the 2018 11inch iPad Pro only to switch it for the M1 12.9 inch with a friend who bought but it was too big for them. So I didn’t pay full price for my when I got it, I liked hover on the M2, but I couldn’t not justify the purchase. I always said that if I could switch to an oled screen, then I would do so I would highly consider getting 16 GB of ram and holding onto that for a while, especially if there was pencil updates along with the OLED. we got that we got pencil upgrades and we got a great screen that if anything shows us that is better than miniLED but that miniLED is good technology too. Everything about this iPad Pro from hardware perspective is not just what I told myself would be my limit to update but actually better. I have not determined storage purchase decisions, although I do lean towards the one terabyte 16 GB ram version that’s because I’m a sucker for Big ram and I cannot lie which is likely worsening sticker shock.

That said seeing surface pro also go OLED on arm with a somewhat performant arm chip has me more on the fence. I’ve never had a surface laptop, but my expectation would be that windows would allow me better gaming opportunities than the iPad and free range of software. The price is better still high but lower than iPad Pro. The surface can function as a tablet but also has full computer capabilities and access to games potentially perhaps more importantly there’s more desktop class art apps.

Anyone here tried the surface pros only to come back to the iPad? My fear is that, Apple has likely evaluated putting desktop in a tablet. Doesn’t really work. You just get a device that’s neither a good computer nor a good tablet but man would it be nice to merge the MacBook Air and iPad Pro.

So looking for anyone that’s gone to surface pro from an iPad (and maybe back) to share their experience. For general use or for art/animation.

I have not owned a Surface. However, at my university faculty who had iPads have abandoned them for the Surface Pro. Often at meetings and workshops they bring them instead of university issued laptops.

Many students have done similar. The Surface Pro gives you the best of both worlds as a tablet and as a computer.

The only advantage for the iPad is its ability to work in the Apple ecosystem. In our local school districts iPads have also been abandoned and they now use Chromebooks.

I have a MacBook Pro and I have never been able to use the iPad well for similar purposes. I have an iPad Pro and love it for enjoyment, reading, surfing, brief emails, etc.

I have tried using the iPad for quick tasks or when I need to respond to a student’s request but I find the iPadOS too limiting and instead end up getting my MacBook Pro and using it on my lap. It has the power but the software just falls short. I specifically chose the iPad Pro because of the Pro Motion display.

It really comes down to what you need a tablet to do for you in my opinion.

 

[PurpleApple]

Probably it would be best if you could try the SP first and compare with your previous usage of former ipads to see if it fits your needs.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

I think something is wrong with me.

I keep getting ready to purchase the new m4 iPad Pro but hesitating at the cart. I’m not out here trying to justify it as a laptop or desktop. I love it for watching things, browsing but mostly for art an animation. While yes I intend if I get good enough to on the side illustrate books at the end of the day it’s a fun relaxation tool for me, like a gaming rig or a sports car for those interested in those things. I have a MacBook Pro and air for all the computing needs. I started with a iPad Air 2 and eventually got the 2018 11inch iPad Pro only to switch it for the M1 12.9 inch with a friend who bought but it was too big for them. So I didn’t pay full price for my when I got it, I liked hover on the M2, but I couldn’t not justify the purchase. I always said that if I could switch to an oled screen, then I would do so I would highly consider getting 16 GB of ram and holding onto that for a while, especially if there was pencil updates along with the OLED. we got that we got pencil upgrades and we got a great screen that if anything shows us that is better than miniLED but that miniLED is good technology too. Everything about this iPad Pro from hardware perspective is not just what I told myself would be my limit to update but actually better. I have not determined storage purchase decisions, although I do lean towards the one terabyte 16 GB ram version that’s because I’m a sucker for Big ram and I cannot lie which is likely worsening sticker shock.

That said seeing surface pro also go OLED on arm with a somewhat performant arm chip has me more on the fence. I’ve never had a surface laptop, but my expectation would be that windows would allow me better gaming opportunities than the iPad and free range of software. The price is better still high but lower than iPad Pro. The surface can function as a tablet but also has full computer capabilities and access to games potentially perhaps more importantly there’s more desktop class art apps.

Anyone here tried the surface pros only to come back to the iPad? My fear is that, Apple has likely evaluated putting desktop in a tablet. Doesn’t really work. You just get a device that’s neither a good computer nor a good tablet but man would it be nice to merge the MacBook Air and iPad Pro.

So looking for anyone that’s gone to surface pro from an iPad (and maybe back) to share their experience. For general use or for art/animation.

I had an animation side project to do and thought I’d do it on the iPad. It rather depends on the workflow you either have in mind or are beholden to, but while you can draw on screen on an iPad, and either approximate pressure by tapered linetype styles or now use a stylus that is pressure sensitive, the clincher for me was having to drag the output through iPad OS without full featured file system access. CIP, When I needed to go back and tweak a frame, making that iterative edit to the original and seeing it automatically updated in your sequenced comp is something you can do easily in any animation program all the way back to 1998 w Macromedia Flash. On the iPad it took illustrating every damn frame one at a time as a separate raster file and then exporting them off iPad to a full functioning NLE on the MBP to comp & edit into scenes, like freaking onion skinning from the 1930s. I didn’t have 1000 years to complete the project & needed proper resolution independent vector drawings & tweening, so I picked up an old favorite antique tablet pc from my yout and tried that. Sure enough, the iPad demanded a heavy price for a small fraction of pretty poor productivity, whereas the old motion computing tablet running bloody windoze sexpee and a superglued-together power supply managed to run circles around it for a whopping $180. Madness ensued. Apple so tightly restricts what you can and can’t do (aka, “how they want you to use it”) on iOS that should you press it into service beyond their narrow vision, you are almost certainly better off with any other option. I love my iPad more than any other electronic device I’ve ever owned, for the things it does well, but it was utterly unfit for the job of animation tablet due entirely to the file management limitations of iOS.