High Quantity Photo Quality Borderless Laser Printers

[davecom]

I'm looking to print high volume photos on cardstock.

I'm looking for a color laser printer that can print borderless photo quality prints on cardstock. Or maybe there's a fast non-laser that can do this. I'm not sure where to ask about this.

If this is the wrong forum to ask on, what's the best Web forum for getting advice about business printers?

Thanks.

 

[hg.wells]

I'm looking to print high volume photos on cardstock.

I'm looking for a color laser printer that can print borderless photo quality prints on cardstock. Or maybe there's a fast non-laser that can do this. I'm not sure where to ask about this.

If this is the wrong forum to ask on, what's the best Web forum for getting advice about business printers?

Thanks.

you may struggle, from my understanding laser printers can’t printer border less and it’s a limitation of the technology.

 

[deep diver]

I'm looking to print high volume photos on cardstock.

I'm looking for a color laser printer that can print borderless photo quality prints on cardstock. Or maybe there's a fast non-laser that can do this. I'm not sure where to ask about this.

If this is the wrong forum to ask on, what's the best Web forum for getting advice about business printers?

Thanks.

Can you tell us a bit more about your need: How many cards do you need to print? What size are they? Over what period of time will you need to do this? What are you doing with these cards? Anything else that might help us better understand your situation.

 

[davecom]

Can you tell us a bit more about your need: How many cards do you need to print? What size are they? Over what period of time will you need to do this? What are you doing with these cards? Anything else that might help us better understand your situation.

Thanks for the reply. We're creating a startup in the custom flash card space. We need to create commercial quality flash cards. I've been looking into online print APIs, none have a product that matches economically our specs. We're considering partnering with local print shops, but because every flash card is custom (based on customer photos), we don't seem to have the volume they may need. So, for the beginning, at least when we're starting up with relatively low volume, I'm considering investing in a printer to try doing the printing myself.

We were originally looking at the 4 inch X 8 inch size. Now we are more interested in 5 x 7. The card will be completely full of ink for the look we want, so borderless is pretty much a must.

In an ideal scenario (this takes off and volumes become large) we would be printing 100s a day. In a more realistic early scenario, we're printing 100s a week.

Thanks for any and all recommendations.

 

[deep diver]

A different option might be to invest in a paper shearing machine to cut off the borders. Look at:

This would let you also do custom sizes without having to worry about available card stock sizes. It might also save you some money on the printer. I've used these before and they really do work that well.

 

[cSalmon]

would a dye-sub printer work?

 

[davecom]

would a dye-sub printer work?

Perhaps, I wasn’t familiar with them beyond what I just Googled. Thanks for the tip.

 

[davecom]

A different option might be to invest in a paper shearing machine to cut off the borders. Look at:

This would let you also do custom sizes without having to worry about available card stock sizes. It might also save you some money on the printer. I've used these before and they really do work that well.

Thanks for the tip. I’ll explore this, but it looks a bit labor intensive and error prone. The goal is to eventually automate the process as much as possible.

 

[r.harris1]

For borderless and photo quality, you may want to consider a printer made for that sort of workflow. Canon, Epson and HP all have varieties that will probably help that run the gamut price-wise and capability-wise. I print with an epson SC-P800. It‘s great but pretty low volume. They have a new 6 color ecotank variety that I’ve had my eye on. https://epson.com/For-Work/Printers...ne-Wide-format-Supertank-Printer/p/C11CJ21201

Anyway, it may point you in a direction that’s helpful. Good luck with your business endeavor!

 

[deep diver]

What's your budget for this? There are big commercial grade printers that are used by photo stores that might do the job.

 

[tizeye]

Generally speaking, “laser printer” and “photo quality” are phrases not used in the same sentence. If graphics, probably ok, but when dealing with know photos that customers send in, it needs the best rendition. Either dye based or pigment ink but pay attention to water resistance. Don’t know which is faster, single print or multiple across and down on large sheet and cut borderless.

 

[davecom]

What's your budget for this? There are big commercial grade printers that are used by photo stores that might do the job.

Thanks for the replies. I have actually been looking at those Epson eco-tank printers in the $600-$900 range.

As far as budget goes. I am ready to spend around $1000 or more if I were confident it would be a good solution. Obviously if this starts to take off I will need two, so as to have one as a backup if one goes down. Thanks again for your tips and insight.

It sounds like laser should really be off the table. Each order of these cards will be ~25 custom cards. So I'm not sure cutting really feels like an efficient way to go about this.

 

[mollyc]

so i don’t actually know what you need, but i order christmas cards from places like whcc and persnickety prints for 5x7 press printed cards. i’d try to research what kind of printers those kinds of places use.

i believe the cards are printed and then die cut in some fashion.

 

[mollyc]

Flat Cards | WHCC

Make each card unique with several sizes, shapes, and foil options. Shop our pre-made designs or create your own.

www.whcc.com

the faqs say what printers they use. it might be helpful? but you’d still have to figure out how to cut them.

i find this a fascinating project.

 

[davecom]

Flat Cards | WHCC

Make each card unique with several sizes, shapes, and foil options. Shop our pre-made designs or create your own.

www.whcc.com

the faqs say what printers they use. it might be helpful? but you’d still have to figure out how to cut them.

i find this a fascinating project.

Yeah those are commercial printer level printers. I'm looking at things in the three to four figures. Those are five to six figures.

 

[tizeye]

Flat Cards | WHCC

Make each card unique with several sizes, shapes, and foil options. Shop our pre-made designs or create your own.

www.whcc.com

the faqs say what printers they use. it might be helpful? but you’d still have to figure out how to cut them.

i find this a fascinating project.

Commercial labs is a good suggestion. While I am forced to use WHCC as only one offered by my website (excellent product - bu minimum $12 "your cost" order and surcharge for drop ship), there are excellent competitors in MPix/Millers, Bay Photo, etc. While drop ship to customer is nice, may prefer to you then you custom ship with your 'special touch thank you', flier suggesting other products, etc.

Commercial lab printers are not only the large machine, but a different technology. They use Kodak (or Fuji) E-lux?? paper that is color negative using chemicals to process. It is not until you get into the Fine Arts offerings that you get paper designed for ink drop - dye based or pigment which is the basis for all personal/commercial printers from set paper size to wide rolls.

Prices at commercial labs are very competitive and many photographers - wedding/group event in particular with their large runs and multi person orders - make a solid living using them. Also an excellent choice as a business startup as minimize startup costs and can see if a viable business.

The Epson Eco-tank appears to be a good alternative. I never looked at them as my concern was idle time with lack of use and ink dry up. First thing that stood out pigment ink. The only question is if they will handle cardstock weight paper. Epson didn't specify in the specs however, in the accessories it offered post card size/weight paper, individually cut that may be too small. Many models offered below your stated budget, but don't know what the differences are as they all - even entry level - come with scan, copy, fax features you probably won't use.

Then there are large format printers 13" to 48" wide paper. With these you will need a paper cutter - except 24" and higher printers, roll paper only, do have a horizontal cutter. Looking at set sheet size, such as 17x22, if able to print a 3 x 4 grid, that is 12 per sheet, then cut. Pay attention to print speed as may be too slow (Canon in particular @4 minutes vs around 1.5 minutes for Epson). The 24" roll printer leaves them in the dust.

 

[mollyc]

i have a canon pro-100 which prints up to 13x19. it’s kind of slow but it does print borderless at 5x7. and it would be faster than sending out to a lab. it’s been discontinued but there is a replacement. it is designed for fine art prints/photos. it might be a good option.

 

[deep diver]

Yeah those are commercial printer level printers. I'm looking at things in the three to four figures. Those are five to six figures.

I'm not a business person but as a consumer I expect goods and services to be very high quality. I'll pay extra for something superior. It looks like you're stepping into a space that already has successful vendors. I think you need to ask if even high quality consumer printer and supplies are really the way to become competitive. Can they produce the right quality in the necessary quantity in a timely manner and deliver the best product at a price that works for both of us?

 

[OldMacs4Me]

A different option might be to invest in a paper shearing machine to cut off the borders. Look at:

This would let you also do custom sizes without having to worry about available card stock sizes. It might also save you some money on the printer. I've used these before and they really do work that well.

Good print shops will have higher end versions of this. Typically will accurately cut a stack of cardstock of perhaps 50+ sheets in one pass. If you have a good relationship with one, the cost of cutting might be affordable.

 

[davecom]

I'm not a business person but as a consumer I expect goods and services to be very high quality. I'll pay extra for something superior. It looks like you're stepping into a space that already has successful vendors. I think you need to ask if even high quality consumer printer and supplies are really the way to become competitive. Can they produce the right quality in the necessary quantity in a timely manner and deliver the best product at a price that works for both of us?

Totally get what you're saying. We've been debating this ourselves. The problem is that when it's still in the proof of concept, first customers phase, it's hard to get a relationship for as-needed custom prints at a reasonable price. We can keep trying, but for relatively small batches of cards it started to seem like just buying the right relatively low-volume printer that could do this would be more economical.

 

[davecom]

Commercial labs is a good suggestion. While I am forced to use WHCC as only one offered by my website (excellent product - bu minimum $12 "your cost" order and surcharge for drop ship), there are excellent competitors in MPix/Millers, Bay Photo, etc. While drop ship to customer is nice, may prefer to you then you custom ship with your 'special touch thank you', flier suggesting other products, etc.

Commercial lab printers are not only the large machine, but a different technology. They use Kodak (or Fuji) E-lux?? paper that is color negative using chemicals to process. It is not until you get into the Fine Arts offerings that you get paper designed for ink drop - dye based or pigment which is the basis for all personal/commercial printers from set paper size to wide rolls.

Prices at commercial labs are very competitive and many photographers - wedding/group event in particular with their large runs and multi person orders - make a solid living using them. Also an excellent choice as a business startup as minimize startup costs and can see if a viable business.

The Epson Eco-tank appears to be a good alternative. I never looked at them as my concern was idle time with lack of use and ink dry up. First thing that stood out pigment ink. The only question is if they will handle cardstock weight paper. Epson didn't specify in the specs however, in the accessories it offered post card size/weight paper, individually cut that may be too small. Many models offered below your stated budget, but don't know what the differences are as they all - even entry level - come with scan, copy, fax features you probably won't use.

Then there are large format printers 13" to 48" wide paper. With these you will need a paper cutter - except 24" and higher printers, roll paper only, do have a horizontal cutter. Looking at set sheet size, such as 17x22, if able to print a 3 x 4 grid, that is 12 per sheet, then cut. Pay attention to print speed as may be too slow (Canon in particular @4 minutes vs around 1.5 minutes for Epson). The 24" roll printer leaves them in the dust.

Thanks for the reply. Epson is currently offering a "2 years of free ink" offer on the Eco-Tanks. That also makes them appealing. I'd like to talk to one of their reps to see what the cardstock situation is with these printers. I tried reaching out through the website a couple days ago but got no reply. I'll try calling on Monday.

Their most expensive one specifically says it handles cardstock:
WorkForce ST-C8000

WorkForce ST-C8000 Supertank Color MFP Printer | Products | Epson US

This wireless Supertank MFP includes enough ink to print up to 19,500 pgs bk/14,800 clr. Up to 60 percent lower total printing costs vs. color laser.

epson.com

 

[Blue Quark]

I can't speak to pricing, but Office Depot's print centers have some pretty nice equipment and capabilities. Honestly, I think that's the way I would go because investing in printing tech can really result in you trying to chase technology, or find yourself handcuffed and limited.

Gloss stock that is either pre-perfed or that they can trim down, printed on at say 1200 or 2400 dpi is likely going to give you very high-end-looking results.

And, the best part is you don't have to own, lease, or maintain the equipment.

 

[Blue Quark]

To follow up a bit on my previous post, my workflow for doing layout work that will go to print is usually something like:

If there's any raster art components to it, get the largest possible version I can.

Definitely prefer vector art for everything possible. Typically, I prefer SVG, but EPS will do as well.

Use GIMP to do all raster art prep (removing unwanted backgrounds, removing any dirt or other unwanted elements).

Save raster art as PNG, as this will give a very high quality result, as well as natively supporting transparency.

I'll then use Scribus to build a layout. All added text and other vector primitives get built/set here. Ensure that all imported raster art is shrunk down to the appropriate physical size and at the same time causing it to be at the very high resolution required for output (600, 1200, 2400 dpi).

Once the layout is complete and the original is saved, convert all type to outlines, and then export the file as an SVG.

Open the SVG in GIMP, letting it render the resultant image at the required resolution. Save this also as a PNG and submit it for processing by whomever is doing your printing output.

This workflow makes the assumption that the job is being run on equipment that expects to receive RGB data and convert it on its own to CMYK, or whatever other specialized gamut it makes use of. It inherently assumes a direct-to-paper process (commercial color laser or inkjet/dye sub printer).

Scribus is capable of generating output suitable for systems which require legitimate CMYK, separations, etc. However, that discussion is beyond the scope of my response here.

I also would use Inkscape for working with vector art images. I'm not an artist myself, so I'd use it more as a utility than an artist's tool, but that's just me. For example, perhaps an original vector image contains a background fill (white, as an example) and you want to delete that. This is the sort of program you'd use prior to bringing that vector image into your layout file.

Now, obviously, you could use Adobe's suite of tools to do all these same things. However, their software is proprietary and fairly costly, whereas all the programs I've listed above are libre licensed, open source, and free.

 

[deep diver]

Thanks for the reply. Epson is currently offering a "2 years of free ink" offer on the Eco-Tanks. That also makes them appealing. I'd like to talk to one of their reps to see what the cardstock situation is with these printers. I tried reaching out through the website a couple days ago but got no reply. I'll try calling on Monday.

Their most expensive one specifically says it handles cardstock:
WorkForce ST-C8000

WorkForce ST-C8000 Supertank Color MFP Printer | Products | Epson US

This wireless Supertank MFP includes enough ink to print up to 19,500 pgs bk/14,800 clr. Up to 60 percent lower total printing costs vs. color laser.

epson.com

It certainly looks like it meets your needs and is roughly within budget. I have an Epson and am very pleased with the photo print quality. You might have to experiment with brands of paper. I have found that I get better results on Epson paper. Kodak and Canon papers did not give me accurate colors, although they were both just fine on Canon and HP printers.

 

[davecom]

I found a printer from Canon, the CX-G6400, that seems pretty much ideal for this. It's specifically for printing cards. It seems it is about $6000-$8000 but I can't even find its price listed from a US vendor:

Canon U.S.A., Inc. | Canon CX-G6400 4"Inkjet Card Printer

The Canon CX-G6400 4" Inkjet Card Printer is designed specifically for your hospitality printing needs.

www.usa.canon.com

I'd be interested in renting or leasing it... investigating if any companies will do that. If you know anything about this printer or how to obtain it, let me know. Or if you know a less expensive more readily available alternative, let me know as well.