MBA 1,1-6,2 How can I get get my 2014 Macbook Air to output video to a USB-C cable?

[Wowfunhappy]

I'm a teacher, and I'm working in a new school this year! The school gives all teachers a 13" M1 Macbook Air to use in their classrooms. But I don't want to use their computer, I want to use my 11" 2014 Macbook Air which I know and love.

All classrooms are equipped with USB-C cables. You can plug these USB-C cables into an M1 Mac to display content on the projector. Behind the scenes, the projector appears to be using HDMI input, so somewhere in the walls the USB-C signal is getting converted to HDMI, but I have no ability to mess with this. I need to use this USB-C cable.

My 2014 Macbook Air uses Mini DisplayPort for video output. I need an adapter (or adapters) to get from my laptop's Mini DisplayPort to the school's USB-C cable. I have tried:

1. Cable Matters Bidirectional Mini DisplayPort to USB C Cable + Poyiccot USB C Female to Female Adapter

2. Cable Matters Mini DisplayPort to DisplayPort cable + WJESOG DisplayPort to USB C Cable + Poyiccot USB C Female to Female Adapter

(The USB-C coupler is the same for both, it's so simple I find it hard to believe it's the problem. Also, an LED on the coupler lights up when both ends are plugged in, making me think it's working.)

Neither of these combinations worked! Both the laptop and the projector say that nothing is plugged in.

Any ideas how I can make this work?

 

[Capeto]

I'm gonna be that guy and ask: why not just use their M1 MBA? It's not like there's a radical difference in the form factor between that and your 11" MBA.

 

[f54da]

> But a bunch of the Amazon reviews for the MonoPrice and Startech cables say it's actually unidirectional, uggh!

Yeah unfortunately usb-c is a crapshoot. It's hard to sort out whether the cables are legit and people are using it mistakenly (e.g. maybe they need hdmi alt-mode instead of DP-alt mode, or maybe they need one that also delivers power) or whether the cable itself is just bad.

The Wacom DisplayLink should work, every review I've seen of it seems to indicate it works for pretty much every combination you can throw at it.

 

[Amethyst1]

but OWC has much better quality which is better since the part will last longer than a hack amazon vendor.

... which must be why OWC SSDs never fail.

and that ssd blade is faster than the original drives.

The original Toshiba HG3 blade isn't great, so it's easy to beat. Some 2010 (and later, 2011) MBAs got Samsung 470 blades which are quite a bit faster.

if we think are MacBooks and Mac are that important we should pay extra for better parts that last and wont break.

Absolutely, but OWC isn't the only kid in town.

I still have OWC parts from 2006 even a spinning drive from 2009.

OWC never made HDDs.

 

[joevt]

@joevt: Since you have a TB1 Mac and the adapter: have you tested if a TB3 device/dock works (video output would be sufficient) if running macOS older than Sierra?

I installed Mavericks (had to change the date in the installer) and updated to 10.9.5.
The Thunderbolt 3 device was not detected when I connected it. Disconnecting the Thunderbolt 3 device causes a kernel panic. I think computer Sleep may also cause a kernel panic.
I tried booting Mavericks with the Thunderbolt 3 device connected. System Information.app says a device is connected but does not identify the device. A display connected to the Thunderbolt 3 device would not connect. It works in later macOS versions such as Sequoia.

I think the simplest option for this setup is to disconnect the display output from the Thunderbolt 3 dock and connect it directly to the laptop.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

Try OWC they have everything!

I took a look through the store and I can't seem to find anything for this case, do you have a recommendation?

---

For now, I ordered a Wacom DisplayLink on eBay. I figure that since passive converters haven't worked, I really need to try an active one, overkill or not. And although it's expensive, I consider this a professional expense.

 

[AppleTO]

It's a good thought, but it won't work because (A) my Macbook Air runs 10.9, and there is some sort of AirPlay incompatibility between that OS and anything modern, and (B) the school's network is too locked down.

Is there a particular reason you are still running 10.9? The machine you are using will need to conform to certain requirements in order to run their institutional software. It’s unlikely they will allow such an outdated vulnerable OS in such an environment. I know it might seem inconvenient now, but save yourself a headache later and take the M1. Those USB-C cables in the classrooms may be coming from a hub that supports power delivery as well.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Try OWC they have everything!

Yes, they often do but the prices are always astronomical compared to other places.

 

[Amethyst1]

The Wacam Link Plus appears to have been discontinued, it's out of stock everywhere! […]

I no longer need mine and would be willing to let go of it. Shipping from Europe to the US would still apply though.

Try OWC they have everything!

Not in this case.

For now, I ordered a Wacom DisplayLink on eBay.

You mean a Wacom Link Plus? (There is also a Wacom Link-without-Plus; I have no experience with that.)

Nope, HDMI was they way to go back then, anf today as well!

DisplayPort is better: more bandwidth, more features, no outrageous licensing fees.

The Wacom DisplayLink should work, every review I've seen of it seems to indicate it works for pretty much every combination you can throw at it.

My experience confirms that. One setup that didn’t work was feeding it the DP input from a dual-link DVI to DP converter.

I have this one, but didn't use it to connect a display.

As you added, that won’t work unless the display requires Thunderbolt input.

USB isn't even mentioned there. Only as port type, but not display protocol.

The USB-C bit should be dropped from the adapter’s description altogether because it neither allows USB-C devices to be connected to TB1/TB2 hosts, nor vice versa. That bit just creates confusion.

Is DP included in TB?

Yes. Doesn’t matter in this case because USB-C DP Alt Mode is what’s needed.

Update: We‘ve since discovered we‘re actually dealing with a Thunderbolt 3 dock here which does require Thunderbolt video input.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

You mean a Wacom Link Plus? (There is also a Wacom Link-without-Plus; I have no experience with that.)

Oops—yes! (Where did "DisplayLink" come from? I double checked and the product I ordered on eBay definitely says "Wacom Link Plus".)

I no longer need mine and would be willing to let go of it. Shipping from Europe to the US would still apply though.

I really appreciate that! I've already ordered one from eBay now, though. Once it arrives, I will report back!

I'm gonna be that guy and ask: why not just use their M1 MBA? It's not like there's a radical difference in the form factor between that and your 11" MBA.

Is there a particular reason you are still running 10.9? The machine you are using will need to conform to certain requirements in order to run their institutional software. It’s unlikely they will allow such an outdated vulnerable OS in such an environment. I know it might seem inconvenient now, but save yourself a headache later and take the M1.

I have done a lot of work to keep 10.9 working. But to be clear, I'm keeping the school's M1 Macbook Air under my desk and I will always have it as a backup. My preference for Mavericks will never affect my ability to do my job.

However, I also genuinely believe my Mavericks laptop will be more reliable for me. Mavericks never changes, it never has new bugs, and I know exactly where all the sharp edges are. If there is one thing in life that makes my blood boil, it is when I am in the middle of a lesson and my technology decides to mess up. I want to use a system I set up which I know and trust.

As an aside, I don't have admin access to the school laptop. I am a technical person and I want to have a command line available that has a C compiler and Docker and stuff.

 

[TheShortTimer]

Okay I will bite back!

but OWC has much better quality which is better since the part will last longer than a hack amazon vendor.
I went cheap in 2018 an everything from amazon broke that year, on lightning connector frayed inside my iPad in 2020 and I needed to replace the port for 129$

The flex on my original MagSafe adapter for my 2006 MBP burned away right in front of me - this was fortunate in the sense that had I been asleep, the consequences could have been dreadful. This was a product that had been included with a computer that when brand new, cost the better part of £2,000 GBP. Hardly cheap and look what happened there.

When I complained to Apple's representatives on the phone and in person, although the MagSafe adapter was replaced, their attitude to was a blatant fire hazard and health and safety issue was appalling. In contrast, the relatively cheapo 3rd party adapter that I purchased for my iBook G3, contrary to the online hysteria and scaremongering, hasn't exploded or caught fire.

Of course, paying a pittance can often lead to paying more in the long run but that's not always a given.

I still have OWC parts from 2006 even a spinning drive from 2009.

Ok. I have an HDD from the mid 90s that still works and it didn't involve paying a premium for the OWC label. As @Amethyst1 pointed out, OWC don't manufacturer the drives themselves. They're just re-badged units which are then marketed with an assurance of quality at a premium.

On that subject...

Their batteries are their what we should spend the extra on if we like our early Intels as my MBA 2010 air new battery lasts longer hour wise than the  one and that ssd blade is faster than the original drives.

There are numerous posts - some within this very forum (here's a thread in which you were a participant ) reviews and blogs written by people who bought OWC batteries and found them to be overpriced lemons that often failed after 12 months and lasted at best for 24 months.

As for the SSD blade, @Amethyst1 covered this in his reply, so I'll just add that through the decades Apple has typically equipped their computers with underperforming drives - 4200 RPM on the iBook G4 instead of 5400 RPM and on the Intel range, 5400 RPM instead of 7200 RPM quite frequently.

Under those circumstances, anyone can do better - including the consumer. As you know - because you contributed to the thread, I replaced the stock 64GB SSD in my 2010 MBA with a 256 GB unit and it cost me far less than a similar offering from either Apple or OWC.

while i- fixit over charges by 25% on every part since they know humans are lazy and desperate to look elsewhere..

Yes - whilst OWC overcharges with re-badged products that from the amount of disgruntled consumers I've come across, often fail to live up to the premium that's exacted or the promise of longevity.

when I raced bicycles, I always purchased the better part so I can finish the course as others did not.
if we think are MacBooks and Mac are that important we should pay extra for better parts that last and wont break.

Quite so - but OWC's products often have an equally poor life expectancy and people just pay all the more for that disappointment.

 

[Amethyst1]

[…] I'll just add that through the decades Apple has typically equipped their computers with underperforming drives […]

I suppose nothing beats the 1.8“ HDDs in the original MBA.

 

[Amethyst1]

There's an easily-accessible compartment under the podium where you can see a Thunderbolt 3 Dock ([this thing](https://plugable.com/products/tbt3-udv) […]

And that might just explain it all.

TB docks require TB video input (encapsulating DisplayPort), not USB-C DP Alt Mode.

Some TB3 docks do work with that but it’s down to the controller (it needs to be Titan Ridge). The TBT3-UDV’s page goes back to 2017, suggesting it uses an Alpine Ridge controller which doesn’t accept USB-C DP Alt Mode.

So, you’ll need a Thunderbolt 1/2 cable and Apple‘s bidirectional Thunderbolt1/2-to-Thunderbolt3 adapter to (hopefully) get it sorted. More expenses

 

[Amethyst1]

Woah can you elaborate more on this? [...]

Thunderbolt has always supported encapsulating up to two DisplayPort streams in the TB stream, which requires a TB controller in the device (e.g. dock or display) to extract these DP streams and send them to a display or other sink. See here for my little experiments with that.

In addition to that, TB controllers can also do straight DP passthrough which enables a DP display (or adapter to e.g. DVI or HDMI) to be plugged into a TB port.

The DP spec supported by thunderbolt DP-alt mode may also be different from usb-c alt mode as mentioned in

One difference is that when DP is encapsulated over TB, the stuffing symbols aren't transmitted over TB but recreated by the receiving TB controller, allowing more "net" bandwidth (for higher resolutions/refresh rates).

The Pro Display XDR makes use of this in tiled mode: its two 3008×3384@60Hz tiles combined would normally require more bandwidth than TB3 provides, but as stuffing symbols aren't transmitted, it just about works out.

Btw that bidirectional thunderbolt 1/2 to 3 adapter requires Sierra which I assume OP is trying to avoid since he wants to use 10.9.

Yeah, that's not going to work unfortunately.

Good point. I don't have any TB3 devices the adapter would be useful with so I have no idea if it actually requires Sierra or a later version to work, or if it'll just do its thing even when the OS doesn't support TB3.

@joevt: Since you have a TB1 Mac and the adapter: have you tested if a TB3 device/dock works (video output would be sufficient) if running macOS older than Sierra?

Is there any way to get a "dumb" box that takes in a (mini-)DisplayPort signal and converts it to whatever this "thunderbolt video" protocol is, without any involvement from actual source computer or operating system?

The only "dumb" solution I'm aware of is a TB3 add-in card, such as this:

You'd need a riser or enclosure to put the card in and a way to supply it with power.

The theory is that you'd pipe miniDP from your MacBook Air to the card, which would be functional enough in this "zombie" state to convert that to TB3-encapsulating-DP, and the TB3 dock would accept that input... just to have its TB controller extract the DP stream that then goes into the dock's DP-to-HDMI converter and to the projector.

BTW, sorry for having sent you down the Wacom Link Plus route. I just assumed we‘re dealing with plain USB-C here

 

[Amethyst1]

Any ideas how I can make this work?

Try a Wacom Link Plus. I‘ve successfully used one to connect my USB-C-only LG UltraFine 4K to various (mini)DisplayPort sources, the oldest being a 2008 MacBook Pro. No need for the USB-C coupler either then.

 

[f54da]

USB-C is a mess: HDMI-alt mode and DisplayPort alt-mode are both passive. I don't think HDMI-alt mode is actually used much though, so if your projector is ultimately accepting hdmi input then there is an active conversion from displayport to hdmi happening somewhere.

Regardless, unidirectional cables will not work for you, you need a bidirectional cable. This should still be a passive connector, but the cables are apparently hard to find and like all things usb-c mislabeling abounds.

The wacom link plus seems like a solid product, although it's slightly stronger than what you need since it supports active hdmi -> usb-c displayport conversion.

Some products are tested in

https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/fsq9gg

and in

Bi-directional DisplayPort->USB-C, HDMI->USB-C, and HDMI->DP cables

How do you connect a USB-C monitor to a PC without USB-C?

dancharblog.wordpress.com

 

[Amethyst1]

The wacom link plus seems like a solid product, although it's slightly stronger than what you need since it supports active hdmi -> usb-c displayport conversion.

Its HDMI port is only 1.4. For HDMI 2.x to USB-C DP Alt Mode, there are cheaper and more capable alternatives.

 

[MBAir2010]

I want to use my 11" 2014 Macbook Air which I know and love.

You could mirror the MacBook Air if the monitor has the capability and that MBA is running Catalina to current.
I did that with a MBPro 13" 2012 to a neighbors' TV this march without any problems.
what helped was a airport base near both the MBP and monitor.


ii hoped this helped, if no the HDMI dongle will work as well

 

[Wowfunhappy]

You could mirror the MacBook Air if the monitor has the capability and that MBA is running Catalina to current.
I did that with a MBPro 13" 2012 to a neighbors' TV this march without any problems.
what helped was a airport base near both the MBP and monitor.

It's a good thought, but it won't work because (A) my Macbook Air runs 10.9, and there is some sort of AirPlay incompatibility between that OS and anything modern, and (B) the school's wifi network is too locked down. (Specifically, wifi client isolation appears to be enabled.)

Try a Wacom Link Plus. I‘ve successfully used one to connect my USB-C-only LG UltraFine 4K to various (mini)DisplayPort sources, the oldest being a 2008 MacBook Pro. No need for the USB-C coupler either then.

The Wacam Link Plus appears to have been discontinued, it's out of stock everywhere! (Your link is to Wacam's Australian store, I'm in the United States.) There are some on eBay, but I'm nervous because, given how much this costs, I want to be able to easily return it if it doesn't work.

Regardless, unidirectional cables will not work for you, you need a bidirectional cable

The first combination I tried was with a cable listed as bidirectional. The second combination had a unidirectional cable, but in the right direction (see how there's actually a USB-A input on the DisplayPort end).

and in https://dancharblog.wordpress.com/2020/05/10/bi-directional-usbc-dp-cables/

Thanks! Everything under DisplayPort → USB-C is out of stock except for the MonoPrice and Startech ones, but I guess I can try MonoPrice next? It's just that after two failed attempts, I'm a bit nervous about continuing the strategy of trying random things, but I guess it's all I can do...

Edit: But a bunch of the Amazon reviews for the MonoPrice and Startech cables say it's actually unidirectional, uggh!

 

[TheShortTimer]

I suppose nothing beats the 1.8“ HDDs in the original MBA.

Ohhhh! How could I forget to include that egregious example?

 

[TechnoMonk]

The network isolates clients, so this is really no different from using an old computer at Starbucks.

Depends on your school network, where I work people get fired if they put unsupported and unpatched devices. Check with your school network and admins.

 

[Amethyst1]

I'm.... really stumped at this point? What could cause this?

That… sucks.

You have the included miniDisplayPort and USB-A cables (necessary for supplying power) from the MacBook Air going to the Wacom Link Plus and plugged the projector into its USB-C display output, right?

The Wacom Link Plus also has a USB-C power input for supplying power to e.g. portable displays. Don’t plug the projector in there

 

[Wowfunhappy]

You have the included miniDisplayPort and USB-A cables (necessary for supplying power) from the MacBook Air going to the Wacom Link Plus and plugged the projector into its USB-C display output, right?

Yes, I plugged the USB-C cable going into the projector into the port with a little rectangle next to it. I did try the other USB-C port as well just for the heck of it—I tried every combination I could. Regardless, there were no signs of life.

It is possible the Wacom Link Plus I got is broken, I'm not exactly confident in the integrity of this eBay seller and I don't have a known-good USB-C display to test with. However, I doubt that's the problem. When I plugged my laptop into the Link's input USB-C port or its microUSB port, my laptop detected that it was connected to a USB 3 device (it appeared as a "TBT3-UDV Docking Station" in System Monitor).

---

The very good news is that I probably have a simpler solution. I said in the first post that:

Behind the scenes, the projector appears to be using HDMI input, so somewhere in the walls the USB-C signal is getting converted to HDMI, but I have no ability to mess with this.

It seems I never examined the podium closely enough—being in the classroom on a Saturday, by myself and with no time pressure, made it easier to notice things. There is a compartment under the podium with a Thunderbolt 3 Dock (I'm pretty sure it's this, it says tbt-udv on it). A USB-C cable goes into the Dock and an HDMI cable comes out. I didn't have my standard mDP-to-HDMI cable with me today, but I should be able to bring that on Monday and replug some things...

It still would be easier if I could use the standard USB-C cable, and I'm confused as to why I can't, but at least I have a path forward which doesn't involve using the school's crappy laptop forever.

 

[f54da]

>TB docks require TB video input
Woah can you elaborate more on this? I never realized that there could be this additional layer of complexity. Indeed it seems "DP traffic as part of thunderbolt link" is a completely separate thing from "DP alt-mode" as described in https://www.thunderbolttechnology.net/sites/default/files/Thunderbolt3_TechBrief_FINAL.pdf

>The first device in the Thunderbolt link has a few options of how it can use this underlying PCI Express and DisplayPort traffic
>Consume the DisplayPort links by exposing them to a display panel, or a display connector(s)

The DP spec supported by thunderbolt DP-alt mode may also be different from usb-c alt mode as mentioned in

https://www.reddit.com/r/UsbCHardware/comments/qfitqa

Whose bright idea was it to create the most confusing connector in history.

Btw that bidirectional thunderbolt 1/2 to 3 adapter requires Sierra which I assume OP is trying to avoid since he wants to use 10.9.

 

[Wowfunhappy]

BTW, sorry for having sent you down the Wacom Link Plus route. I just assumed we‘re dealing with plain USB-C here

No problem, you didn't know and I knew it was a gamble.

The only "dumb" solution I'm aware of is a TB3 add-in card, such as this:

My initial reaction was "oh, that won't work, I'm not going to carry a mini-PC around the school."

But you're saying it doesn't need to actually be plugged into a PC, right? But it does need power. I don't suppose the power could come from the USB-C cable?

I think this could maybe work if I can find a really small enclosure for it. Otherwise I'll just have to unplug the dock under the podium. (The problem with unplugging the dock is I have to always remember to put it back at the end of class. I cannot allow my weird technology choices to create problems for another teacher!)