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automan98

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 25, 2005
151
67
Now that the Sony 1000XM4 is out I need to decide on getting the new Sony headphones or wait for the AirPods Studio. Besides device handoff in iOS14, I'm trying to figure out how Apple can beat Sony in this headphone category. Trying to decide if I should buy the Sony headphones now or just wait for Apple.

Would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on how Apple could best Sony's 1000XM4 to help me decide if I buy now or wait.

Thanks
 

NavySilver

macrumors regular
Aug 4, 2012
107
341
New York, NY
Improvements from XM3 aside, Sony's headphones still don't exactly have the best microphones for calls. Bose 700 is by far the winner across all noise-canceling headphones, but AirPods have performed quite well in this category and I can see this being carried to the Studio.

There's also the H1 chip, which means more in terms of easy connection & switching between multiple devices; this feature is basically confirmed from the WWDC. With Sony XM4 you only get to connect to one device at once.

There's also potential for a better looking design & better ergonomics? But this is definitely down for some debate, since I personally think the XM3/4 headphones are very elegant looking. Given Apple's design approach with AirPods, these headsets may very well have a polarizing look that will turn heads if you wear them out. The utter lack of rumors on this set of headphones is a bit worrying.
 

automan98

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 25, 2005
151
67
Improvements from XM3 aside, Sony's headphones still don't exactly have the best microphones for calls.

There's also the H1 chip, which means more in terms of easy connection & switching between multiple devices; this feature is basically confirmed from the WWDC. With Sony XM4 you only get to connect to one device at once.

All the reviews I read and listened to for the XM4 said that call quality was much due to an extra mic. The XM3 did not have good call quality - tried them - not good. Looking to hear more people provide their experiences.

You are incorrect about the XM4 and connecting to one device at a time. It allows for two at a time. That's a new feature.

I have the AirPods Pros and I'm happy with them. We'll need to see if Apple can extend the technology to match Bose or Sony for ANC.

I think the Apple ease of connectivity and handoff will be its greatest selling points.

Thanks for your thoughts.
 
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MayaTlab

macrumors 6502
Dec 12, 2007
320
302
In addition to the above, my own speculations :D :

- Given the HomePod and AirPods Pro frequency response, it's likely that the hypothetical AirPods studio won't exhibit the significantly exaggerated bass of the WH-1000XM3. That "feature" may remain a Beats exclusive :D. I would expect significant differences in sound signature for sure and sound quality perhaps.
- There is some evidence that Sony's ANC operates up to 700hz (Sony's own marketing, Rtings measurements - although the latter's reliability is doubtful IMO) while the APP's operates up to around 1000-3000 or so... and in a very tiny and power efficient package. So I think it's very, very likely that ANC will be better on the AirPods Studio.... BUT it's also likely, given the APP's design choices, that Apple will willingly sacrifice some passive isolation for venting purposes, meaning that in the end it's going to be a toss up.
- It's likely that the AirPods Studio's transparency mode will be better. It requires pretty high-end full range mics with good S/N ratios : https://www.systemplus.fr/wp-conten...neon-SDM-MEMS-in-Goertek-Microphone_flyer.pdf. I'm pretty confident that Apple will retain first dips on newer mics technology and combine that with their top of the line DSPs.
- The Sony both fold flat and inwards. For some reason my little finger tells me that Apple's design decisions may prevent one of the two from happening :D
- "Spatial audio", although remains to be seen how it will work exactly and if it is convincing in the first place.
- I would expect Apple to be a bit more creative with charging than just "here be cable, here be USB-C port".
- Likely lower latency on the AirPods Studio when paired with an Apple device (the APP already has lower latency than nearly every other pair of BT headphones on iPhones despite being true wireless earbuds).
 
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KayEm6419

macrumors regular
Jun 11, 2020
174
166
Now that the Sony 1000XM4 is out I need to decide on getting the new Sony headphones or wait for the AirPods Studio. Besides device handoff in iOS14, I'm trying to figure out how Apple can beat Sony in this headphone category. Trying to decide if I should buy the Sony headphones now or just wait for Apple.

Would be interested in hearing people's thoughts on how Apple could best Sony's 1000XM4 to help me decide if I buy now or wait.

Thanks

Hello automan98,

Are you interested in over-ear headphones like the WH-1000xm4, or in truly wireless in-ear earphones like the AirPods Pro (or WF-1000xm3)?

Thanks for the clarification.
Best,
KM
 
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automan98

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 25, 2005
151
67
Over ear As much as I love Apple I don’t think any over the ear is going to compare overall to a Sony or Bose. Again, that’s overall. My headphones arrive on Thursday.
 

MayaTlab

macrumors 6502
Dec 12, 2007
320
302
Over ear As much as I love Apple I don’t think any over the ear is going to compare overall to a Sony or Bose. Again, that’s overall.

If there is one thing Apple is good at, it's the "overall" package. As plainly demonstrated by the AirPods Pro vs. other true wireless earbuds. Stuff as dumb as caring about the exact force of the retaining magnets, or as complicated as caring for the latency.
That doesn't make it a better device for your own use case, and there are plenty of very good reasons to prefer other wireless earbuds over the APPs, but in most measurable metrics or aspects that can be rather objectively evaluated the APPs have proven themselves to be a rather complete product that will satisfy a large chunk of people (which is the only type of product Apple tries to make, they're not very interested in niche applications), despite Apple setting for themselves numerous design constraints that must have posed lots of challenges to the engineering team (if only the total internal volume of the APP vs. other true Wireless ANC headphones, for example, it's waaaaay smaller).

As far as noise cancellation is concerned, we already have all the evidence needed thanks to various measurements from various sources that Apple has most of the necessary know-how to perform as well as Bose or Sony headphones. For example, we already know that Apple's DSP is fast enough to perform ANC operations at least as fast as 1000-2000hz in a tiny package like the APP, which is basically state of the art as of now regardless of the headphones size :
That being said it's likely that Apple may prioritise other aspects of the headphones over sheer noise cancellation capacity (I'm pretty certain that Apple will try to limit cabin pressure as much as possible, or try to vent the headphones quite liberally).

As far as sound quality goes recent Beats and Apple products have already been measured as being somewhat decently close to FR targets such as Harman's ones and having low distortion so...
(yes that includes the recent Beats... something I would have never believed a few years ago :D).
Frankly I see very little engineering challenge for Apple to match, if they wanted to, headphones such as the Bose 700 or the aforementioned Sony.


Now if Apple were to design a pair of headphones that can ensure, thanks to real-time analysis of your ear shape (I don't know if it is possible simply with mics, something fancier like IR dots projection and multiple IR cameras around the cup + real time 3D calculation of the effect of your pinae on FR might be needed, IDK ?) and a powerful but low latency and power efficient DSP, a constant frequency response that's within 1-2db of a specific target across the whole audible FR range regardless of the individual wearing them - something that Apple will HAVE to solve anyway if they want their spatial audio to be truly convincing and go beyond the uncanny valley - now that would be a challenge. As in : so far no one has been able to come even remotely close to that and I'm not even sure Apple can within the next few years.
 
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Closingracer

macrumors 601
Jul 13, 2010
4,317
1,849
Improvements from XM3 aside, Sony's headphones still don't exactly have the best microphones for calls. Bose 700 is by far the winner across all noise-canceling headphones, but AirPods have performed quite well in this category and I can see this being carried to the Studio.

There's also the H1 chip, which means more in terms of easy connection & switching between multiple devices; this feature is basically confirmed from the WWDC. With Sony XM4 you only get to connect to one device at once.

There's also potential for a better looking design & better ergonomics? But this is definitely down for some debate, since I personally think the XM3/4 headphones are very elegant looking. Given Apple's design approach with AirPods, these headsets may very well have a polarizing look that will turn heads if you wear them out. The utter lack of rumors on this set of headphones is a bit worrying.

Umm you can connect to 2 devices at once with the XM 4. You just lose LDAC support but since this is an Apple centric forum I don’t think many of us care since our phones don’t support it anyways. Sony XM4 ANC is bar none the best and even the AirPods Pro or beats solo pro doesn’t touch it at all. I have all 3 and the only advantage either have is the H1 chip and comfort in the AirPods case. Honestly the only way the supposed headphone from Apple would be able to compete is to have around 80% of the XM4 ANC capabilities which shouldn’t be hard and battery life at least 30 hours with ANC. I am happy with my XM4 but if I didn’t own them I would consider the brilliance of the H1 chip if it has what I said.
 

Closingracer

macrumors 601
Jul 13, 2010
4,317
1,849
All the reviews I read and listened to for the XM4 said that call quality was much due to an extra mic. The XM3 did not have good call quality - tried them - not good. Looking to hear more people provide their experiences.

You are incorrect about the XM4 and connecting to one device at a time. It allows for two at a time. That's a new feature.

I have the AirPods Pros and I'm happy with them. We'll need to see if Apple can extend the technology to match Bose or Sony for ANC.

I think the Apple ease of connectivity and handoff will be its greatest selling points.

Thanks for your thoughts.

The AirPod pros ANC is solid enough I’ll take the H1 chip over better ANC then the Sony earbuds superior ANC. Sold them and quite happy with it. That being said I Think the same will be said with the over the ear headphones but in this case I want the best ANC.
 
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