How do I access the system setup in a mac G3 B&W

[Chrispy]

Hey all. I'm stupid about mac repairs... how do I access the BIOS type screen in a mac. Like say I added an ATA HD to a B&W G3 and the system just would not see it... how would I check the system settings on that? Thanks!

-Chris

 

[CanadaRAM]

Well, there is no BIOS type screen per se.
The hard drive setup is accessed through Disk Utility in your Utilities Folder in your Applications Folder.

You can see the hardware environment through System Profiler under the Apple menu, but not make changes.

I'm sure someone will reply that there are UNIX commands you can issue through Terminal, but everything you need to do shoud be available through Disk Utility

 

[840quadra]

Hey all. I'm stupid about mac repairs... how do I access the BIOS type screen in a mac. Like say I added an ATA HD to a B&W G3 and the system just would not see it... how would I check the system settings on that? Thanks!

-Chris

The Macintosh platform does not have a BIOS as known in the PC world. To answer your question better the gorup will need to know what OS you are running. OS9 has it's own way of getting the system to see the Disks as opposed to OS X.

Did you confirm jumper settings on the drive itself?

840

EDIT:

I see you are using tiger. CanadaRAM has you going on the correct path!!

 

[Chrispy]

Hello all. Thanks for the replies. I actually have no OS at the moment as the other HD seems to be dying so I changed it out with a new one. When the Tiger install gets underway it just fails to see a HD. I have a WD Special Edition 80GB ATA-100 and the jumpers are removed so it is on its default master w/o slave present setting. Should I change the jumper to master w/ slave present for the mac too see it? Thanks

 

[Chrispy]

Oh and as a second question. I tried to install a G4 700 sonnet upgrade CPU card in the mac but it said I have to have OS 9.1 or higher installed first. I tried it anyways just installing the OS 10 software that is included and then installing the card and the computer would not boot at all. I didn't even get the apple chime at the beginning or anything. Do have HAVE to install the software in OS 9 first for the computer to boot. I had the jumper cap on correctly and I still didn't get anything.... any suggestions?

 

[yellow]

The Tiger installer DVD has a Utilities pull-down menu, go to Disk Utility on that.

 

[nrd]

Hello all. Thanks for the replies. I actually have no OS at the moment as the other HD seems to be dying so I changed it out with a new one. When the Tiger install gets underway it just fails to see a HD. I have a WD Special Edition 80GB ATA-100 and the jumpers are removed so it is on its default master w/o slave present setting. Should I change the jumper to master w/ slave present for the mac too see it? Thanks

If the HD is on the same IDE cable as the CD or ZIP drive, then yes, master w/slave present. If the HD is the only thing attached to the IDE cable, master only.

 

[FoxyKaye]

Oh and as a second question. I tried to install a G4 700 sonnet upgrade CPU card in the mac but it said I have to have OS 9.1 or higher installed first. I tried it anyways just installing the OS 10 software that is included and then installing the card and the computer would not boot at all. I didn't even get the apple chime at the beginning or anything. Do have HAVE to install the software in OS 9 first for the computer to boot. I had the jumper cap on correctly and I still didn't get anything.... any suggestions?

Yes. The reason being is that the B&Ws have a firmware block that prevents the processor from automatically being upgraded to a G4 (since they share the same motherboard as the early PCI G4 systems). You might be running in to trouble across the board with your upgrading - try doing the following:

* Install OS9 and completely upgrade it to 9.2.2
* Visit the Apple G3 support site: http://www.apple.com/support/powermac/g3/

* Run the appropriate firmware updates: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=31002 -- some of these can only be run under OS9.

* Run the firmware block removal program that should accompany your Sonnett G4 upgrade - this will be on a CD provided by Sonnet. You basically need to run the program, reboot while holding the "programmer" button, then let the update apply itself.

* After all this, then the G4 upgrade should boot correctly.

* Regarding the hard drive issue - the hard drive bus on the Blue & Whites is a little tricky, and tends to be related to what revision of the machine you're running. Honestly, it may be worth your while to not bother using the machine's bus at all (since it also only supports up to ATA/66 speeds) and buy a PCI IDE card that is ATA/100 and 133 capable. On my system (see below) I only use the secondary bus on the motherboard for the DVD drive - all my HDDs are running off of a PCI card.

 

[Chrispy]

Thanks FoxyKaye! You have been very informative and I look forward to getting home tonight and trying some of these things out. Now I just need to find a cheap PCI card, I guess, for the HD.

 

[840quadra]

* Regarding the hard drive issue - the hard drive bus on the Blue & Whites is a little tricky, and tends to be related to what revision of the machine you're running. Honestly, it may be worth your while to not bother using the machine's bus at all (since it also only supports up to ATA/66 speeds) and buy a PCI IDE card that is ATA/100 and 133 capable. On my system (see below) I only use the secondary bus on the motherboard for the DVD drive - all my HDDs are running off of a PCI card.

I didn't even think about asking if it was a Rev A or Rev B B&W. The REV A Motherboard could be your issue, as they had IDE Bus issues. I am running the same drive Chrispy is attempting to install, only on a REV B Motherboard and a 160gb drive in my case.

I have a G4 upgrade CPU on my system as well, Since I had OSX installed I ran the tools provided by the vendor (Machspeed in my case). After I ran the utility (which includes a firmware upgrade I believe) the system was able to use the new processor.

 

[applemacdude]

i lsot my installation cd for teh g4 upgrade where can i downlaod it?

 

[840quadra]

i lsot my installation cd for teh g4 upgrade where can i downlaod it?

The Vendor of the Upgrade should have the software available for download. That is provided that you know what upgrade card you installed.

 

[Chrispy]

Hm I'm not sure which revision I am running of the B&W but I did get it to work late last night finally. I had to set the drive to master w/ slave present even tho the drive was on its own IDE channel. Oh well it works now. Also, even with the 128MB 9200 PCI with the pci extreme hack installed, the system seems slow. Will the G4 upgrade chip take care of this or am I stuck with it? Thanks

EDIT * Also, should I stay away from Tiger on a system using PCI graphics due to its heavy graphics allocation? Thanks

 

[Chrispy]

Yes. The reason being is that the B&Ws have a firmware block that prevents the processor from automatically being upgraded to a G4 (since they share the same motherboard as the early PCI G4 systems). You might be running in to trouble across the board with your upgrading - try doing the following:

* Install OS9 and completely upgrade it to 9.2.2
* Visit the Apple G3 support site: http://www.apple.com/support/powermac/g3/

* Run the appropriate firmware updates: http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=31002 -- some of these can only be run under OS9.

* Run the firmware block removal program that should accompany your Sonnett G4 upgrade - this will be on a CD provided by Sonnet. You basically need to run the program, reboot while holding the "programmer" button, then let the update apply itself.

* After all this, then the G4 upgrade should boot correctly.

* Regarding the hard drive issue - the hard drive bus on the Blue & Whites is a little tricky, and tends to be related to what revision of the machine you're running. Honestly, it may be worth your while to not bother using the machine's bus at all (since it also only supports up to ATA/66 speeds) and buy a PCI IDE card that is ATA/100 and 133 capable. On my system (see below) I only use the secondary bus on the motherboard for the DVD drive - all my HDDs are running off of a PCI card.

What is the "programmer" button?? I did everything else but it still does not work :-(

 

[840quadra]

What is the "programmer" button?? I did everything else but it still does not work :-(

_

It is under your power button, and it is the little one on the Right hand side.

HTH

840

 

[FoxyKaye]

Hm I'm not sure which revision I am running of the B&W but I did get it to work late last night finally. I had to set the drive to master w/ slave present even tho the drive was on its own IDE channel. Oh well it works now. Also, even with the 128MB 9200 PCI with the pci extreme hack installed, the system seems slow. Will the G4 upgrade chip take care of this or am I stuck with it? Thanks

EDIT * Also, should I stay away from Tiger on a system using PCI graphics due to its heavy graphics allocation? Thanks

Your drive issue makes sense in a weird kind of way from what I know of the IDE bus, though I'm glad to see it's up and running.

From what I understand, the PCI extreme hack on the B&Ws can actually make things sluggish. Folks have reported various results with it on the B&W mobo - largely it seems because the mobo itself doesn't really have the horsepower to manage it. Unless you really need PCI extreme, I'd disable it - the Radeon 9200 will still give beautiful results and framerates on games.

From the few reviews of Tiger on these older systems it seems like it is actually a *tad* (emphasis on *tad*) faster than Panther. The G4 chip should take care of some of the sluggishness that you're experiencing.

Glad to be of assistance, though - hope the upgrade goes well!

 

[Chrispy]

Well I have tried everything suggested and I still get nothing when I have the G4 upgrade in the computer. I guess I will have to return it Seems my luck with Apple and actually getting something to work is not so good.... uhhh. I don't get what the problem is since I followed all the directions exactly.

 

[840quadra]

Well I have tried everything suggested and I still get nothing when I have the G4 upgrade in the computer. I guess I will have to return it Seems my luck with Apple and actually getting something to work is not so good.... uhhh. I don't get what the problem is since I followed all the directions exactly.

If you bought it new, and from a good vendor, most cases the support is excellent. I would keep trying. it took a bit to get mine to work, but once it did.. WHAM, you will never want to go back!!

 

[Chrispy]

Do you all suspect it is a software problem that is causing this to not work. I did get an error in OS 9 when I was trying to install the software. It said something to the length of "Firmware could not update becuase it is already too corrupt".... sound I re-install OS 9.2.2 and try again? Thanks

 

[Chrispy]

Also, is it possible that the B&W just does not like the 700MHz setting that the G4 is set to run at? If I clocked it down to 500 would that help? Does anyone know of a site that shows jumper settings for a B&W G3? Thanks!

 

[FoxyKaye]

A couple things come to mind:

You shouldn'ty need to change the MoBo jumbers for a G4 upgrade - Sonnett makes them so that they are compatible regardless of the original clock speed.

Also, re: the firmware updating, try re-applying the original Apple firmware update for the Blue/Whites (which will re-install the firmware block against the G4 chip).

Then, refer to the direction manual in the Sonnett chip box as to how to apply their firmware update (which removes the G4 block). You need to apply it under OS9, and the process (if I correctly recall) involves copying the utility to your desktop, running it, rebooting holding the "programmer" button (the small concave one beneath the power button), and you should get a grey screen showing the process.

There's a couple extra steps here, so read the Sonnett manual carefully.

A couple more issues I remember:

Applying the Sonnett firmware update won't work with the SCSI drives in the B&Ws, they don't start fast enough - it will only work with the IDE drive.

Also, it did take a couple of tries to get everything settled in when updating - this is probably redundant, but remember that you can't install the G4 chip until the firmware updating is complete.

Call Sonnett - they're pretty helpful, too.

 

[Chrispy]

Hm I followed all the directions on the previous post and still nothing. I can't contact Sonnet support becuase I am never at my computer during normal business hours I still get the message that the G4 Firmware cannot install becuase the firmware is too corrupt. I even reinstalled OS9 tried running it before and after the firmware patch and everything. According to the online help I should not even have to install this for my model but when the mac boots with the upgrade installed I don't even get the mac "chime" or anything. Please help this is driving me nuts.

 

[Chrispy]

Actual message is "your computers firmware is so badly corrupted that I can't repair it"