How does a 4 year old device get to be sold as new?

[Withavee]

Hi All
Ive been using iPhones for some years, 6s at the moment and an iPad mini for a couple of years but stuck with PCs until March this year when I took the leap and bought a new 13.3" MBP from my local John Lewis as they were offering a free 2 year warranty.

Still very much at the learning stage but as my knowledge grows, so does my love.

Last week it stopped charging and would not start and I ended up on the Apple support page and booked a visit to the genius bar. They did a re-set that involved opening up the case and removing the battery, this was saturday 11th June. Went to use it sunday and though it started OK with about 40% charge, when I connected the charger it did not charge and the LED on the mag connector did not light up. Over the half hour or so of using the MBP the LED would light up, orange then green, for 10 to 20 seconds 2 or 3 times.

Earliest revisit to genius bar was yesterday pm, they said a board needed changing and would be done under the Apple warranty and after a call to the workshop said it would be ready in a couple of hours. Part of the call was 'How long to swap a board on a mid 12 MBP'. About 45 mins later I get a call to say they have openned the device again and found clear evidence of liquid damage and so was not covered.

I explained to them that I was still at the 'new toy' stage and there was no way it had been anyway near liquid in the weeks I have owned it.

They showed me pictures of the damaged pcb and eventually took another picture of the damage on my 6s.

I spoke to my son-in-law, a big Mac fan and he advised that the mid 12 comment was indeed the build date of my new MBP, he had checked it when I was showing it off when he first called round.

Next stop John Lewis who say 'if it's liquid damage it is not covered', the tech guy agreed it looked in V good condition but needed to have JL investigate which will take 2 - 4 WEEKS!

I guess my question is - How does a 4 year old device get to be sold as New? and 'what can I do about it? The JL guy said 'I didn't think there were any of those left' when I let it be known my New MBP was actually 4 years old.

Sorry for the long post.

 

[mildocjr]

Sounds like you need to have a long talk with the business that sold it to you, if you even paid close to the full amount of a 13" MBP as listed on the Apple Store website, then you need to take it back and have them replace it with a new 2015-16 model depending on if it is updated before you get to the store. If you bought it 4 years old for ~$500 then that's about right, if you spent closer to ~$1100, then you should be getting the latest model or requesting a refund to buy one direct from Apple.

My biggest complaint of local computer shops is that they know almost nil about Mac computers, they don't understand that just because it looks like this years model, it is not this years model and had diminished in price.

If a liquid was spilt on it, then you'll probably out of luck. If you know for a fact that know liquid was spilt on it, then you need to take it back to the store you bought it from and tell them Apple found liquid damage in it and convince them that you are not responsible for the damage. (i.e. the liquid damage was caused by the seller)

 

[robvas]

Apple still sells the mid-2012 MacBook Pro 13". If you bought the 'classic' and not the Retina, that's what you got.

It wasn't made in 2012, however, that's just how Apple names their models. It was built in a factory not too long ago. That's simply the last time it was updated.

 

[tubeexperience]

I am not sure about the liquid damage, but Apple do still sell the 4 years old non-Retina Mid-2012 MacBook Pro 13.

 

[treekram]

As robvas mentioned, Apple still makes the 2012-model non-Retina MBP (if the non-Retina model is the one you have). I bought an Apple-refurbished 2012 MBP last December and it manufactured in November. You can do a serial number check (will tell when it was manufactured) at:
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html

You were either sold a truly old computer or some people along the way (your son-in-law included) are misinformed.

 

[grahamperrin]

How does a 4 year old device get to be sold as New?

A little context: Apple's price for the base product is now £100 less than in 2012.

My thoughts in February 2015: https://forums.macrumors.com/posts/20685640

 

[shoehornhands]

Hi All
Ive been using iPhones for some years, 6s at the moment and an iPad mini for a couple of years but stuck with PCs until March this year when I took the leap and bought a new 13.3" MBP from my local John Lewis as they were offering a free 2 year warranty.

Still very much at the learning stage but as my knowledge grows, so does my love.

Last week it stopped charging and would not start and I ended up on the Apple support page and booked a visit to the genius bar. They did a re-set that involved opening up the case and removing the battery, this was saturday 11th June. Went to use it sunday and though it started OK with about 40% charge, when I connected the charger it did not charge and the LED on the mag connector did not light up. Over the half hour or so of using the MBP the LED would light up, orange then green, for 10 to 20 seconds 2 or 3 times.

Earliest revisit to genius bar was yesterday pm, they said a board needed changing and would be done under the Apple warranty and after a call to the workshop said it would be ready in a couple of hours. Part of the call was 'How long to swap a board on a mid 12 MBP'. About 45 mins later I get a call to say they have openned the device again and found clear evidence of liquid damage and so was not covered.

I explained to them that I was still at the 'new toy' stage and there was no way it had been anyway near liquid in the weeks I have owned it.

They showed me pictures of the damaged pcb and eventually took another picture of the damage on my 6s.

I spoke to my son-in-law, a big Mac fan and he advised that the mid 12 comment was indeed the build date of my new MBP, he had checked it when I was showing it off when he first called round.

Next stop John Lewis who say 'if it's liquid damage it is not covered', the tech guy agreed it looked in V good condition but needed to have JL investigate which will take 2 - 4 WEEKS!

I guess my question is - How does a 4 year old device get to be sold as New? and 'what can I do about it? The JL guy said 'I didn't think there were any of those left' when I let it be known my New MBP was actually 4 years old.

Sorry for the long post.

The answer quite simply, is consumer ignorance. Apple products are using severely outdated hardware. The Mac Pro is still the exact same computer released back in 2013. The 15" MacBook Pro is 2 generations behind (and counting), still stuck with Haswell (Intel has since released Broadwell, AND Skylake).

The average consumer sees "2.5GHz i7" on a MacBook Pro, and "6th Gen 2.5GHz i7" on a Dell, HP, Lenovo, and assumes they're the same thing. Apple deliberately avoids advertising the detailed specs of the hardware they use, so as to exploit this consumer ignorance. People thus continue paying exorbitant prices for Apple's outdated products, so Apple continues to push the envelope so as to maximize profit (they'd charge $10,000 for a Mac Pro with a Celeron processor if they thought they could get away with it).

Attempts to inform / educate, typically devolve into irrational argument, magnificently devoid of objectivity, as people become lost in their own stubbornness.

The fact that Apple has no real competition (as it pertains to OS X), makes it fairly easy for them to perpetuate this illusion.

 

[btbam91]

The answer quite simply, is consumer ignorance. Apple products are using severely outdated hardware. The Mac Pro is still the exact same computer released back in 2013. The 15" MacBook Pro is 2 generations behind (and counting), still stuck with Haswell (Intel has since released Broadwell, AND Skylake).

The average consumer sees "2.5GHz i7" on a MacBook Pro, and "6th Gen 2.5GHz i7" on a Dell, HP, Lenovo, and assumes they're the same thing. Apple deliberately avoids advertising the detailed specs of the hardware they use, so as to exploit this consumer ignorance. People thus continue paying exorbitant prices for Apple's outdated products, so Apple continues to push the envelope so as to maximize profit (they'd charge $10,000 for a Mac Pro with a Celeron processor if they thought they could get away with it).

Attempts to inform / educate, typically devolve into irrational argument, magnificently devoid of objectivity, as people become lost in their own stubbornness.

The fact that Apple has no real competition (as it pertains to OS X), makes it fairly easy for them to perpetuate this illusion.

Bingo.

 

[Withavee]

As robvas mentioned, Apple still makes the 2012-model non-Retina MBP (if the non-Retina model is the one you have). I bought an Apple-refurbished 2012 MBP last December and it manufactured in November. You can do a serial number check (will tell when it was manufactured) at:
http://www.chipmunk.nl/klantenservice/applemodel.html

You were either sold a truly old computer or some people along the way (your son-in-law included) are misinformed.

Thanks for the link treekram, as ever in life, seems a little knowledge is a dangerous thing. Checked my serial number and get a build date of 42-2015, so it was built last October.
This is good news for the long run but I still have a liquid damaged MBP that was caused by a 3rd party?

 

[treekram]

I'll be honest with you. If I were a customer-service person and was presented with the facts as you've stated them, my opinion would be that the damage occurred after you bought it. The computer stopped working properly after you had it for several weeks. If the damage occurred before you bought it, I would have expected symptoms to have shown up earlier.

So, at this point, I would check to see if there's any insurance (homeowners, etc.) that would cover this damage. Or, perhaps if you bought it by credit card, maybe they will cover it. If not, check with the other occupants of your household (if there are any) to see if anything happened. Think back if there was any time liquid could have gotten in the computer, especially white it was not at home - it doesn't take much liquid to cause damage. Is there high humidity where you use the computer (in a basement)? If you are sure that liquid damage could not have occurred since you bought it, then go back to the retailer and ask them if your computer was sold to somebody else previous to them selling it to you. If they still have other 2012 MBP's in stock, ask them if you can check the serial number of one or two and see if there's a big discrepancy between the manufacture date of your MBP vs. the one's they have in stock. Present them with your facts of how liquid damage could not have possibly happened under your care. If you're calm and present a sincere and thorough case, I think you stand a better chance of getting some redress from the retailer.

 

[Withavee]

Had a phone call from John Lewis yesterday confirming liquid damage and therefore no chance of any support under warranty. Cost to repair £730, a bit of a blow as it only cost £699 new back in March!
Will see how their report compares with the GB diagnosis of new MLB 2.5Ghz plus fitting £301 which was to have been done under warranty prior to finding liquid damage.
Will also research local specialists. Not a good experiance.

 

[617aircav]

Terrible.

 

[arkitect]

Had a phone call from John Lewis yesterday confirming liquid damage and therefore no chance of any support under warranty. Cost to repair £730, a bit of a blow as it only cost £699 new back in March!
Will see how their report compares with the GB diagnosis of new MLB 2.5Ghz plus fitting £301 which was to have been done under warranty prior to finding liquid damage.
Will also research local specialists. Not a good experiance.

This is very disconcerting.

So, pick one.
1. You bought this (albeit old model) Mac as new, shrink-wrapped in all its factory freshness, and it already had liquid damage;
2. When it was opened by Apple techs, they accidentally damaged it by spilling liquids and are now trying to pass it on as your problem;
3. You (or someone in your household) did actually spill some liquid over it.

I'm inclined to believe it is no. 1.

My own dealings with JL have always been excellent. I think you stand the best chance of getting some redress from them.

My sympathies. This is a horrible situation.

 

[steve62388]

This is very disconcerting.

So, pick one.
1. You bought this (albeit old model) Mac as new, shrink-wrapped in all its factory freshness, and it already had liquid damage;
2. When it was opened by Apple techs, they accidentally damaged it by spilling liquids and are now trying to pass it on as your problem;
3. You (or someone in your household) did actually spill some liquid over it.

I'm inclined to believe it is no. 1.

My own dealings with JL have always been excellent. I think you stand the best chance of getting some redress from them.

My sympathies. This is a horrible situation.

You reckon? I know if I worked in a retail store what I would presume is the most likely scenario (HINT: It's not option 1). If JL know it's not their policy to shrink wrap returned goods, if it's never been done before and they don't have the facility to do so anyway what do you expect them to think?

OP. Are you sure there is absolutely no chance anybody else in the household or any visitor has gone anywhere near your laptop? Sometimes people screw up so bad they feel the only way out is to fib.

 

[Works4Me]

I've had a similar experience. I bought a refurb Apple Macbook Pro 13 inch retina last summer. It failed, an Apple tech took it apart, found water damage and they refused to repair it. I eventually found someone who fixed it under warranty since he noted that even though there appeared to be some water damage, he believed me when I said I had never spilled water (which was true). The supposed water damage was in a odd place, and he couldn't understand how it had gotten there. No one spilled anything on it when it was in my possession. From now on, when I get a Mac from Apple, I'm having it crack it open to make sure it doesn't come pre-damaged!

 

[tubeexperience]

I've had a similar experience. I bought a refurb Apple Macbook Pro 13 inch retina last summer. It failed, an Apple tech took it apart, found water damage and they refused to repair it. I eventually found someone who fixed it under warranty since he noted that even though there appeared to be some water damage, he believed me when I said I had never spilled water (which was true). The supposed water damage was in a odd place, and he couldn't understand how it had gotten there. No one spilled anything on it when it was in my possession. From now on, when I get a Mac from Apple, I'm having it crack it open to make sure it doesn't come pre-damaged!

...from condensation

 

[JoelTheSuperior]

...from condensation

Pretty much this. It's actually a lot more common than you'd think.

The answer quite simply, is consumer ignorance. Apple products are using severely outdated hardware. The Mac Pro is still the exact same computer released back in 2013. The 15" MacBook Pro is 2 generations behind (and counting), still stuck with Haswell (Intel has since released Broadwell, AND Skylake).

The average consumer sees "2.5GHz i7" on a MacBook Pro, and "6th Gen 2.5GHz i7" on a Dell, HP, Lenovo, and assumes they're the same thing. Apple deliberately avoids advertising the detailed specs of the hardware they use, so as to exploit this consumer ignorance. People thus continue paying exorbitant prices for Apple's outdated products, so Apple continues to push the envelope so as to maximize profit (they'd charge $10,000 for a Mac Pro with a Celeron processor if they thought they could get away with it).

Attempts to inform / educate, typically devolve into irrational argument, magnificently devoid of objectivity, as people become lost in their own stubbornness.

The fact that Apple has no real competition (as it pertains to OS X), makes it fairly easy for them to perpetuate this illusion.

You don't even know how much this frustrates me. I really don't think Apple should even be selling the old 2012 model - the amount of money you save for getting a 4 year old machine is insignificant for a pretty major performance downgrade compared to the retina model.

 

[Chicane-UK]

Did you pay on a credit card for the computer? You may have some recourse filing a claim with them to get your money back.

The problem is this mystery water damage - you have no way of proving that it wasn't you that did it, but all you can do is try if both John Lewis and Apple are refusing to play ball.

 

[617aircav]

Pretty much this. It's actually a lot more common than you'd think.



You don't even know how much this frustrates me. I really don't think Apple should even be selling the old 2012 model - the amount of money you save for getting a 4 year old machine is insignificant for a pretty major performance downgrade compared to the retina model.

If people are buying they will sell it. Not everyone cares about having the latest hardware.

 

[Sheppard]

Just be persistent. JL will finally give in to preserve their customer experience rating.

 

[MushroomMan]

This is really difficult and my condolences as it is a terrible experience for your 1st move to OSX.

If it were purchased from Apple, then you 'may' have some luck pursuing the case as you have not 'spilled' anything on the computer. (I personally don't buy the condensation thing as I am guessing you used the device under 'normal' operating conditions).

But as you bought it from a third party it gets tricky. You could still push the "I have only used it in normal conditions and have taken great care, and I don't believe I have done anything out of the ordinary to contribute to the damage" but it would be hard.

If it were me and my money I would probably look at something like this:

At least it's 200 cheaper.... not ideal I know....

Just my 2c

 

[Wando64]

I had equipment purchased from John Lewis always exchanged without questions whenever it had gone wrong.
Three months from purchase is nothing and they would not have checked the item, but just exchanged it for you.

It is not going to be of any help to you now, but your "mistake" was to go to Apple instead.
The whole point of a two years warranty is that it should be used when needed.

That said, water damage is rather suspicious and I would ask a few questions around the house...

 

[Withavee]

Update - Still awaiting it's return, un-repaired.
I live on my own, so no 3rd parties or pets, unless my corn snake escaped from the vivarium and poured something over the MBP while I was not looking.
Still using my old laptop when visiting my GF as the main reason to is that some route planning software we are using for a trip to the USA does not run on OSX.
I worked for about 5 years in the electronics industry so know issues with liquid damage and am grown up enough to react if I had caused the spill. And yes, we were always suspicious of the 'it wasn't me', but would look at each situation.

Really appreciate your support, one and all.