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How long will the 5,1 Mac Pro be able to run future versions of OSX?

Silly John Fatty

Silly John Fatty

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Nov 6, 2012
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I'm interested in the 5,1 Mac Pro with: 12 core (2 x 2,93 GHz Intel Xeon) from mid 2010.

At the moment, from what I've read, the oldest Mac Pro's that Mavericks and Yosemite seem to support are the early 2008 ones and later. I'm a bit worried that if I go with a 2010 one, it soon won't be able to run the latest system anymore.

A question, why is that so in the first place? I mean, what makes it that a Mac can't run a newer system anymore? The one I'm interested in is still the 3rd fastest stock Mac in the world according to 64-bit multicore benchmarks, so should I worry or not? Is it a marketing thing? Will I be able to run another 2-3 systems or so after Yosemite?

Thanks! :)
 
You can't say that it's the 3rd Fastest Mac! yes in 12 core configuration it scores high and that's it! Technically it depends on your apps to take advantage of all those cores! so if you are going to run photoshop or any application that doesn't need more than 2 cores! A 2013 iMac can outperform your Mac by a big margin... why? because the cpu in the 2010 MP is kinda old and well the new architecture intel uses in their 2013 cpus is a lot faster and a lot better! Now if you have an application that uses 12 core, then your Mac will outperform an iMac because it only has 4 cores! So it all comes down to if you need the 12 cores or not.

Now regarding yosemite, I think this Mac will support Apple's future OSs for couple of years to come, 4-5! But you will have some issues, for instance for the continuity feature to work you need BT 4.0 which MP don't have and some stuff that might come! Also even if the system can run it, apple tries to make it unable to run so that you are forced to upgrade! it's the same story with the iPhone!
 
No one can say. You should buy this Mac based on your needs today. Any future upgrades it can take advantage of is icing on the cake. If Apple decides to drop support you can always switch to the latest version of Windows :D
 
Driver issues, more or less.

The 2006 Mac Pro was a bit of a wonky situation- it was a 64-bit machine, but lacked 64-bit EFI firmware. Apple could have chose to work around the issue but didn't for whatever reason.

I can't imagine why they'd start dropping support for the 2008+ machines- they're truly 64-bit workstations and all the drivers required to boot them are 64-bit.

In other words, there is no technical reason why those machines (and the 2010 release in particular, with isn't as old as you'd think) would be dropped from support. I would think that the 2010 machine would be good for another 4 or 5 releases of OS X, given that they don't seem interested in overhauling the kernel or releasing OS 11 any time soon.

-SC
 
Thanks guys, that calms me :D

As for the fastest Mac. I'd be using it for Logic Pro X. There's some benchmarks for Logic elsewhere, where someone has uploaded a Logic template and everyone has to run it to see how many tracks the Mac can play. The Mac Pro I'm interested in can play the most tracks of all, I think it even outperformed new Mac Pro's, which seem not to be the best deal when working with Logic.
The 5,1 got over 200 tracks playing (really heavy plugins!).

Also:
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/logic-pro-x-update/

I suppose when they say 12 core support, it means that this version of Logic will also support "old" 12 cores right?
 
Sanchez25 said:
Thanks guys, that calms me :D

As for the fastest Mac. I'd be using it for Logic Pro X. There's some benchmarks for Logic elsewhere, where someone has uploaded a Logic template and everyone has to run it to see how many tracks the Mac can play. The Mac Pro I'm interested in can play the most tracks of all, I think it even outperformed new Mac Pro's, which seem not to be the best deal when working with Logic.
The 5,1 got over 200 tracks playing (really heavy plugins!).

Also:
https://www.macrumors.com/2014/05/13/logic-pro-x-update/

I suppose when they say 12 core support, it means that this version of Logic will also support "old" 12 cores right?
Click to expand...

The nMP's massive GPU horsepower is wasted on audio apps. CPU cores rule in the world of sound production and are especially helpful when using multiple VIs. I run Digital Performer on a my hex oMP (with a measly 5770 GPU) with three monitors and have been very happy with the performance.

The article you linked to was dated six months PRIOR to the nMP's release, so, yes, I'd feel comfortable assuming the oMP is supported. :D
 
crjackson2134 said:
Apple was still selling the 5.1 in 2013. My 5.1 was manufactured by Apple in Feb. 2013 and has Apple Care until 2016.
Click to expand...

I haven't checked buy I'm willing to bet that Apple is still selling the Mac Pro 5,1 in the Apple Refurbished Store and if they are will likely do so into 2015.
 
DPUser said:
The nMP's massive GPU horsepower is wasted on audio apps. CPU cores rule in the world of sound production and are especially helpful when using multiple VIs. I run Digital Performer on a my hex oMP (with a measly 5770 GPU) with three monitors and have been very happy with the performance.

The article you linked to was dated six months PRIOR to the nMP's release, so, yes, I'd feel comfortable assuming the oMP is supported. :D
Click to expand...

Ha didn't even check that. That's good then :D
And in fact the GPU power is wasted like you said, although I heard it could be used for non-video/3D/graphic stuff as well. So basically if the CPU is full it could take power from the GPUs. But this all very new, I had created a thread on here about this a while ago and in fact it seems to be confirmed that it's possible, but DAWs have to be programmed in a way so they can take this power. I even think Logic supports it. But I think it's still very far from being developed. And then you're still paying those 2 expensive graphic cards that you may not even need at all. :)

brand said:
I haven't checked buy I'm willing to bet that Apple is still selling the Mac Pro 5,1 in the Apple Refurbished Store and if they are will likely do so into 2015.
Click to expand...

I recently checked the US Store and there are some. I'm in Europe and here there are none, sadly the old Mac Pro was banned in 2013. Older models are not for sale either (checked all the countries refurbished section) but maybe that's just coincidence.
 
Sanchez25 said:
I'm interested in the 5,1 Mac Pro with: 12 core (2 x 2,93 GHz Intel Xeon) from mid 2010.

At the moment, from what I've read, the oldest Mac Pro's that Mavericks and Yosemite seem to support are the early 2008 ones and later. I'm a bit worried that if I go with a 2010 one, it soon won't be able to run the latest system anymore.

A question, why is that so in the first place? I mean, what makes it that a Mac can't run a newer system anymore? The one I'm interested in is still the 3rd fastest stock Mac in the world according to 64-bit multicore benchmarks, so should I worry or not? Is it a marketing thing? Will I be able to run another 2-3 systems or so after Yosemite?

Thanks! :)
Click to expand...

This is actually an interesting question.

The 2012 Mac Pro sold up to 2013 is identical to the 2010, which itself is virtually identical to the 2009 4,1 model.

Historically, Apple supports machines for 6 years, however they've broken this trend with Mavericks; the system requirements didn't change from Mountain Lion. Yosemite also doesn't change the system requirements, so iMacs from 2007 will still be supported up to Q4 2015, for example.

What this means for the 2009, 2010 and 2012 Mac Pro models is unclear. Hopefully they base it on the date they stopped selling, and support it until 2019, but I think that's unlikely.

Even if the 2009/2010/2012 Mac Pros don't get OS X 10.12 or 10.13, Apple has historically still provided security updates two versions previously.

Short version, we're all still covered for a while, don't panic!
 
brand said:
I haven't checked buy I'm willing to bet that Apple is still selling the Mac Pro 5,1 in the Apple Refurbished Store and if they are will likely do so into 2015.
Click to expand...

Not really, they're almost running out! it's been a week without any model in there! The last day Apple stop selling 5,1 was October 22 2013! they had many 5,1 models and configs till March of 2014 but now they've almost ran out! I'm just waiting for a 12 core to appear so I can buy it!
 
sebseb said:
Not really, they're almost running out! it's been a week without any model in there! The last day Apple stop selling 5,1 was October 22 2013! they had many 5,1 models and configs till March of 2014 but now they've almost ran out! I'm just waiting for a 12 core to appear so I can buy it!
Click to expand...

Wow, I'm surprised that happened so soon.
 
Does it mean something? It could just be coincidence, no?

But what I'm wondering is why one day it wouldn't be able to run a newer OS anymore. I mean it's not like they get heavier and heavier, in fact Mavericks is lighter and quicker than ML was, and ML was lighter and quicker than Lion was. Is it really just so we buy a new product? If that's the case then there's no way I'm going with a brand new 12 core Mac Pro… so what does Apple want, me buying an old Mac Pro and basically using Apple and possibly also buying parts and accessories, or me not buying anything at all? For what I need there's no other Mac I would be interested in, I would quickly reach its limits I was told. So I decided to go with an old 12 core MP. The new one is obviously too expensive for me.
 
I'm expecting at least 6 more years, hopefully more. Here we are in 2014 and the 3,1 Mac Pro, a 8 year old machine is still supported.

Lou
 
I wonder if 64-bit EFI is the deciding factor here. Support for the 32-bit machines dropped like a rock and so far the 64-bit ones remain supported, even the oldest ones.

If there's no technical reason why an older CPU/motherboard couldn't run a new OS, then dropping support would have to mean Apple no longer considers it worthwhile to update drivers for the hardware.

I think the strongest evidence is that Apple continued to sell the 5,1 machines up until late 2013. Buying a pro computer and having support dropped a few years later would be unheard of.
 
Demigod Mac said:
I wonder if 64-bit EFI is the deciding factor here.
Click to expand...

It most certainly is. Apple still could be providing support for the 1,1 and 2,1 Mac Pros if they wanted to. this has been proved out by the hacks some some folks have employed to run Mavericks and Yosemite on the early 2006 and 2007 Mac Pros.

Lou
 
If you have a look in the Yosemite boards there is widespread panic about Handoff/Continuity/Airdrop between iOS 8 and OSX machines.

Apple has found another way to force obsolescence. The crappy thing about it is that they have made the new features dependent on BT 4.0, which sort of makes sense, and WiFI AC, which makes no sense whatsoever.

In DP3, you have to have an Airport card that loads the BCM4360 kext. (wireless AC). If not, you are literally kept in an Airdrop circle that specifies "Older Macs" (I am NOT making this up)

Why is this silly? Because the tech does a "Hi, Who are you?" on BT 4.0 but does bulk of work via WiFi. Since none of the iPhones so far have AC, they are obviously using "N". And yet....you must have an "AC" card to use this tech that relies on "N".

Why? Because they know that BT lives on USB bus, pretty easy to upgrade BT, but MILLIONS of Macs are on Wireless "N" and many will have serious difficulties upgrading WiFi.

So nifty new tech requires parts for no realistic reason, other than moving new hardware. Count on more of this silliness.

The irony is this the "Old" Mac Pro has the easiest time upgrading. I can put this tech in a 1,1 Mac Pro in about 30 seconds. With a new GPU the same MP can run the Yosemite OS while literally EVERY OTHER MAC OF IT'S TIME is stuck with clumsy hacks that rarely work to run newer OSs. Apple wants these easily upgraded machines gone and forgotten.

A 2006 iMac has no hope of running Mav or Yose. It's essentially a kid's playroom machine. a 2006 MP can still run latest stuff. They are going to try everything they can to get the cMP forgotten and swept under the carpet. Those shiny new "cans" aren't going to be so shiny when Apple unleashes new tech that their "older" 7970s can't run and their won't be a darned thing to do about it. (Perhaps run a newer GPU through a strangled TB bus?)

You can already run a better GPU in "Older" Mac Pro, the gap will get wider as newer ones come out. To maintain their GREEN image, Apple should install recycling bins for the 2 or 3 year old machines in their stores.

Fight the fight guys, we don't all have to buy into "disposable computers"
 
This tactic is not new for Apple, and also for other high-profile brands that take even more frustrating tactics. The point is, fight over a machine model against whom? It's own machine's manufacturer ?

If they want to take the "disposable machine" route, they will. Maybe this will open a new life-cycle and 2nd-hand market, where you will be able to find cheaper 2nd-hand Mac Pros, one generation behind for a really good value. I'm sure Apple is not that dumb to expect people to pay 5k every 2 years or so.
 
Demigod Mac said:
I wonder if 64-bit EFI is the deciding factor here. Support for the 32-bit machines dropped like a rock and so far the 64-bit ones remain supported, even the oldest ones.

If there's no technical reason why an older CPU/motherboard couldn't run a new OS, then dropping support would have to mean Apple no longer considers it worthwhile to update drivers for the hardware.

I think the strongest evidence is that Apple continued to sell the 5,1 machines up until late 2013. Buying a pro computer and having support dropped a few years later would be unheard of.
Click to expand...

What's EFI? The Mac Pro 5,1 is 64-bit so it should be alright, no? 64-bit is really important to me so I can use Logic Pro X in 64 bit mode and use all the RAM I have. 32-bit apparently limits you to only 4 GB.

MacVidCards said:
If you have a look in the Yosemite boards there is widespread panic about Handoff/Continuity/Airdrop between iOS 8 and OSX machines.

Apple has found another way to force obsolescence. The crappy thing about it is that they have made the new features dependent on BT 4.0, which sort of makes sense, and WiFI AC, which makes no sense whatsoever.

In DP3, you have to have an Airport card that loads the BCM4360 kext. (wireless AC). If not, you are literally kept in an Airdrop circle that specifies "Older Macs" (I am NOT making this up)

Why is this silly? Because the tech does a "Hi, Who are you?" on BT 4.0 but does bulk of work via WiFi. Since none of the iPhones so far have AC, they are obviously using "N". And yet....you must have an "AC" card to use this tech that relies on "N".

Why? Because they know that BT lives on USB bus, pretty easy to upgrade BT, but MILLIONS of Macs are on Wireless "N" and many will have serious difficulties upgrading WiFi.

So nifty new tech requires parts for no realistic reason, other than moving new hardware. Count on more of this silliness.

The irony is this the "Old" Mac Pro has the easiest time upgrading. I can put this tech in a 1,1 Mac Pro in about 30 seconds. With a new GPU the same MP can run the Yosemite OS while literally EVERY OTHER MAC OF IT'S TIME is stuck with clumsy hacks that rarely work to run newer OSs. Apple wants these easily upgraded machines gone and forgotten.

A 2006 iMac has no hope of running Mav or Yose. It's essentially a kid's playroom machine. a 2006 MP can still run latest stuff. They are going to try everything they can to get the cMP forgotten and swept under the carpet. Those shiny new "cans" aren't going to be so shiny when Apple unleashes new tech that their "older" 7970s can't run and their won't be a darned thing to do about it. (Perhaps run a newer GPU through a strangled TB bus?)

You can already run a better GPU in "Older" Mac Pro, the gap will get wider as newer ones come out. To maintain their GREEN image, Apple should install recycling bins for the 2 or 3 year old machines in their stores.

Fight the fight guys, we don't all have to buy into "disposable computers"
Click to expand...

Good post! :) +1 from me

antonis said:
Maybe this will open a new life-cycle and 2nd-hand market, where you will be able to find cheaper 2nd-hand Mac Pros, one generation behind for a really good value.
Click to expand...

Actually I'd say this is already the case, and that's the reason why I'd like to grab one of those old 12 cores. Benchmark scores still at the very top, and a huge price drop as well. What more can you ask for? ;)
 
When has Apple forced obsolesce via OS due to just some feature in the OS? iOS 6 and 7 included a lot of features older phones just didn't get, but they didn't say "sorry you can't use Siri and 3D maps, so no OS for you." Yosemite isn't dropping any support for Macs that can run Mountain Lion or newer, despite the new tech that will not necessarily work on those 2007-2010 machines (lacking BT 4.0). In fact they've regularly supported machines that likely had sever hardware constraints running the OS and would probably only have run smoothly if you did a lot of upgrades (looking at you, eMacs.)

I'd expect the 5,1 MPs to have at least two more supported OS versions past Yosemite but I wouldn't be surprised if you get more.
 
Apple will support 64bit machines for years, as 128bit machines are pretty far ways out.

So even the 2008 model will be in the game so to speak
 
@Sanchez25

Don`t worry....You can upgrade/customized your cMP in the future, with dual X5690, Wifi AC + BT4, USB 3.0 and also the GPU card. It would definitely hold for a good 3-4 years max. Remember the 2010 was the same machine that Apple was selling in 2012 with a minor CPU bump. You would be missing thunderbolt if you buy 2010 machine.

Personally I do not find anything interesting about TB2...it is even on par with USB 3.0 performance-wise - but I am sure pro-users would find it more reliable and faster. But TB2 does not impress me at all, and it does not impress a lot as well on tech forum when they reviewed it. Now I do not want to start another flaming post here..so I would just like to add, that this is just my personal view, I do not want to offend anyone. I am sure TB3 or TB5 would be great, but TB2 is a joke.
 
Wow, TB2 has come so far. It's almost as fast as USB3 except for writes where it was like 1/4 of the speed.

I'm trying to remember now, what was the reason we needed to alter everything to include this?
 
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