How Reliable Are The M4 Ports?

[BackToMac2017]

Have ports improved on the M4 mac mini? I have an M1 and the ports don't work right.

Here's an example:

I have an external M.2 (1TB) plugged in (in a USB-C port). I'll refer to this as the old M.2. I have an Anker powered USB type-A hub plugged in. I'm trying to copy files from the old M.2 to the new M.2 (2TB). I've tried with the new M.2 plugged into the USB hub. I've tried with new M.2 plugged directly into the mac mini (both type-A and C ports). Then I even tried using the mini internal storage as a middle man. What happens is it copies a little and then macOS says the new M.2 didn't eject properly. Then I have to plug the new M.2 into my Linux laptop to fix it so the mac will see the new M.2 again in disk utility so I can then format it once again and repeat attempting to copy files. I've tried two different brand M.2 enclosures. I've had this same problem with another M.2 brand a year ago.

I think I saw M4 mini USB ports have increased speed, but are they more reliable? Has anyone who's had problems with the M1 mini ports had those problems go away by buying an M4?

While typing this out, I've now seen this (https://www.macworld.com/article/25...s-rear-usb-c-ports-are-causing-headaches.html), which sounds like no improvement. Although from that article it sounds like at least the front ports are reliable.

 

[russell_314]

Have ports improved on the M4 mac mini? I have an M1 and the ports don't work right.

Here's an example:

I have an external M.2 (1TB) plugged in (in a USB-C port). I'll refer to this as the old M.2. I have an Anker powered USB type-A hub plugged in. I'm trying to copy files from the old M.2 to the new M.2 (2TB). I've tried with the new M.2 plugged into the USB hub. I've tried with new M.2 plugged directly into the mac mini (both type-A and C ports). Then I even tried using the mini internal storage as a middle man. What happens is it copies a little and then macOS says the new M.2 didn't eject properly. Then I have to plug the new M.2 into my Linux laptop to fix it so the mac will see the new M.2 again in disk utility so I can then format it once again and repeat attempting to copy files. I've tried two different brand M.2 enclosures. I've had this same problem with another M.2 brand a year ago.

I think I saw M4 mini USB ports have increased speed, but are they more reliable? Has anyone who's had problems with the M1 mini ports had those problems go away by buying an M4?

While typing this out, I've now seen this (https://www.macworld.com/article/25...s-rear-usb-c-ports-are-causing-headaches.html), which sounds like no improvement. Although from that article it sounds like at least the front ports are reliable.

That sounds like a software (OS) issue rather than a hardware issue. Basically it wouldn’t matter if it was M1 or M4 when it’s running the same OS. Generally USB-C ports are reliable unless abused.

 

[dmccloud]

Have ports improved on the M4 mac mini? I have an M1 and the ports don't work right.

Here's an example:

I have an external M.2 (1TB) plugged in (in a USB-C port). I'll refer to this as the old M.2. I have an Anker powered USB type-A hub plugged in. I'm trying to copy files from the old M.2 to the new M.2 (2TB). I've tried with the new M.2 plugged into the USB hub. I've tried with new M.2 plugged directly into the mac mini (both type-A and C ports). Then I even tried using the mini internal storage as a middle man. What happens is it copies a little and then macOS says the new M.2 didn't eject properly. Then I have to plug the new M.2 into my Linux laptop to fix it so the mac will see the new M.2 again in disk utility so I can then format it once again and repeat attempting to copy files. I've tried two different brand M.2 enclosures. I've had this same problem with another M.2 brand a year ago.

I think I saw M4 mini USB ports have increased speed, but are they more reliable? Has anyone who's had problems with the M1 mini ports had those problems go away by buying an M4?

While typing this out, I've now seen this (https://www.macworld.com/article/25...s-rear-usb-c-ports-are-causing-headaches.html), which sounds like no improvement. Although from that article it sounds like at least the front ports are reliable.

That sounds like an issue with the M.2 drive disconnecting from the Mac rather than an issue with the Mac Mini itself. Personally I haven't had any issues like you are describing with either my Mac Mini or my MacBook Pro, and I have multiple external M.2 SSDs connected. The only difference I can think of is that all of my drives are currently connected through a Thunderbolt 4 dock rather than a USB hub (which would lack the bandwidth of even the most basic USB-C hub).

 

[Daydog]

I have a studio Max and had a Kingston NV2 1TB PCIe Gen4 NVMe M.2 SSD connected to tb port and had
nothing but disconnection plus the M.2 got quite hot.i now have a WD Black SN7100 2TB M.2 SSD
on same tb port and its been solid.so may not always be the ports that's the prob.

 

[BackToMac2017]

Thanks for the replies. I am starting to think it's specific M.2's that isn't working properly with macOS. The one I'm currently using has been working without any issues, including copying a 30GB+ VM to it. I'll just buy a larger one of what I have that's working, which is a TEAMGROUP T-Force.

 

[Fishrrman]

I had been thinking of starting a new forum thread on this... but since the subject came up... I'll post my experiences here.

A couple of days back, I started getting "freezes" on my m4 Mini. Or rather... they seemed like freezes.

The mouse cursor would no longer move.
I couldn't click on anything.
My keyboard didn't work, either (the mouse is a Logitech wireless with the Logi receiver plugged into a USB port on the keyboard).

It certainly seemed like the Mini was "locked up".
Only "way out" seemed to be a restart.

Then by chance, I got a freeze yesterday and decided to plug another USB wired mouse into one of the front ports on the MIni. Suddenly... the mouse worked again.

Hmmmm....
I reached around and unplugged/plugged the adapter for my keyboard cable and flipped it 180 degrees, and all was well with the regular keyboard/mouse again. Could have been "in" the cable adapter I was using (USBa to USBc), or perhaps the actual connection to the port (don't know).

So this wasn't a "software/OS freeze" -- rather, just a hardware disconnection.

But... I noticed something else to which I hadn't paid attention before.
The USBc/thunderbolt port on the back of the Mini... well... it seemed to "flex" a bit.
Both "up and down" and "left to right".
It moved. Not as "solid" as I would expect it to be.

I keep my Mini "upright on its side":

So... I did a little cable re-arranging to reduce (as much as possible) any "strains" on the connection point into the Mini.

I'm wondering how this will progress into the longer-term.
For anyone reading this who has the m4 or m4pro Mini:
Do your USBc/thunderbolt ports (both front and rear) seem to have some "flex" in them when moved around...?

 

[Corefile]

I've been asking myself the same thing. I've got three or four different USB-C devices connected for storage where each is a different type of controller and SSD. Every single one of them disconnects after being connected for a while (longevity) and when sustained transfer (throughput) are being done. The same devices attached to the 2018 Mini have zero issues. I say that's more than a coincidence.

 

[Corefile]

Thanks for the replies. I am starting to think it's specific M.2's that isn't working properly with macOS. The one I'm currently using has been working without any issues, including copying a 30GB+ VM to it. I'll just buy a larger one of what I have that's working, which is a TEAMGROUP T-Force.

I've had problems with three Team, a Crucial, and an AData SSDs on my Mini M4. I got a couple of WDC blue things I plan to try. I think a couple of the Team drives are now dead.

 

[dmccloud]

I had been thinking of starting a new forum thread on this... but since the subject came up... I'll post my experiences here.

A couple of days back, I started getting "freezes" on my m4 Mini. Or rather... they seemed like freezes.

The mouse cursor would no longer move.
I couldn't click on anything.
My keyboard didn't work, either (the mouse is a Logitech wireless with the Logi receiver plugged into a USB port on the keyboard).

It certainly seemed like the Mini was "locked up".
Only "way out" seemed to be a restart.

Then by chance, I got a freeze yesterday and decided to plug another USB wired mouse into one of the front ports on the MIni. Suddenly... the mouse worked again.

Hmmmm....
I reached around and unplugged/plugged the adapter for my keyboard cable and flipped it 180 degrees, and all was well with the regular keyboard/mouse again. Could have been "in" the cable adapter I was using (USBa to USBc), or perhaps the actual connection to the port (don't know).

So this wasn't a "software/OS freeze" -- rather, just a hardware disconnection.

But... I noticed something else to which I hadn't paid attention before.
The USBc/thunderbolt port on the back of the Mini... well... it seemed to "flex" a bit.
Both "up and down" and "left to right".
It moved. Not as "solid" as I would expect it to be.

I keep my Mini "upright on its side":
View attachment 2496557

So... I did a little cable re-arranging to reduce (as much as possible) any "strains" on the connection point into the Mini.

I'm wondering how this will progress into the longer-term.
For anyone reading this who has the m4 or m4pro Mini:
Do your USBc/thunderbolt ports (both front and rear) seem to have some "flex" in them when moved around...?

If you look at any of the Mac Mini teardowns (starting with step 30), both the front and rear ports are modular in nature, which allows for easier replacement if a port was to stop working. I wouldn't worry about the flexing, as that is related to how the USB-C ports are actually built into the Mini.

 

[meson]

FWIW, I bumped into the same issue a couple weeks ago transferring some old data, ~100GB-200GB, from a SATA III ssd (Crucial MX500 256GB) to an M.2 ssd (WD Blue SN580) on my M1 mini. Both are connected to the mini via usb a ports on a powered Thunderbolt 3 hub. After what seemed like a consistent portion of the data transfer the M.2 ssd would reliably disconnect.

I ran disk utility on both drives at least one had some repairable issues, but I don't recall which drive. Given the failed transfers, I assume it was the M.2 drive.

I ended up transferring the files in smaller batches and all was okay. Given how warm the enclosure got, I thought I might have been bumping up against thermal issues in the M.2 ssd, but if this issue is showing up on M4 machines as well, it very well could be an OS or firmware issue that Apple will resolve at some point.

 

[dmccloud]

FWIW, I bumped into the same issue a couple weeks ago transferring some old data, ~100GB-200GB, from a SATA III ssd (Crucial MX500 256GB) to an M.2 ssd (WD Blue SN580) on my M1 mini. Both are connected to the mini via usb a ports on a powered Thunderbolt 3 hub. After what seemed like a consistent portion of the data transfer the M.2 ssd would reliably disconnect.

I ran disk utility on both drives at least one had some repairable issues, but I don't recall which drive. Given the failed transfers, I assume it was the M.2 drive.

I ended up transferring the files in smaller batches and all was okay. Given how warm the enclosure got, I thought I might have been bumping up against thermal issues in the M.2 ssd, but if this issue is showing up on M4 machines as well, it very well could be an OS or firmware issue that Apple will resolve at some point.

With both of those SSDs you are limiting the transfer speeds by connecting to USB-A ports instead of USB-C/Thunderbolt. This might be related more to your Thunderbolt 3 dock than either Mac OS or the Mac firmware, or even the firmware of the M.2 SSD itself.

 

[meson]

With both of those SSDs you are limiting the transfer speeds by connecting to USB-A ports instead of USB-C/Thunderbolt. This might be related more to your Thunderbolt 3 dock than either Mac OS or the Mac firmware, or even the firmware of the M.2 SSD itself.

The issue very well could be with the firmware of the M.2 SSD. I may have to take it home at some point and borrow a PC to update the firmware. Until then, it will be limited to its current version. That said, the fact that I've never ran into the issue before the release of the M4 minis, and my M1 machine is displaying the same behavior documented by M4 mini owners, it is certainly within the realm of reason that the issue is on Apple's end. My purpose was not to pass blame, but to add another data point that the issue is not unique to the M4 machines.

In what way am I limiting my drives? Both USB-A ports are 10Gb ports. The SATA III ssd is in a USB 3.0 enclosure limited to 5Gb/s (why buy a new enclosure for a nearly 10 year old drive for a marginal speed bum?). The SSK enclosure was about $10 and is limited to 10Gb/s. Both USB-A ports are 10Gb/s. The 4k display that's plugged in is going to eat up about half of the TB bandwidth, so there's not much headroom for running both drives simultaneously at anything beyond 10Gb/s.

Short of buying a Thunderbolt enclosure or a rare Thunderbolt 3 hub with a 20Gb/s port, how am I going to get more out of the WD M.2 ssd?

The hub I use is a Monoprice Thunderbolt 3 Dual DisplayPort Docking Station, which provides 1 USB-C 10G, 2 USB-A 10G, and 1 USB-A 5G ports along with a few others. It was relatively inexpensive, and provided what I needed at the time in terms of connectivity.

I'm using my equipment to the best of its ability, I just chose not to splurge on the best equipment. With SATA III ssds and USB 3.0, we reached the realm of fast enough for 99% of workflows. I'm not in the 1% that needs to push the limits of my Mac mini.

 

[chown33]

Another possibility is that the M.2 device is momentarily taking too much current, and the port it's connected to briefly drops out.

The System Report on the Mac should list everything on the USB bus. See what the available current and the requested current are for the M.2 device when it's plugged in.

There are handy USB power meters that connect between a device and a port, and show how much current is being drawn, and often the voltage, too. Brief dropouts might not show up in a basic reading, but if the device is near its max with no data transfer, then read/writes might increase that, leading to dropouts.