How should I use Hard Drives in Logic Pro?

[drnebulous]

Hi,
I'm new to this forum but have been an apple user since 2008. I have recently bought a Mac Pro (2012). I will be using it for Logic Pro. As for music production, what would the best order of hard drives be? I was thinking

Drive 1 & 2 (OCZ Vector 150) set to RAID 0 for OS
Drive 3 (1TB stock HD) for Logic, Sibelius, and Native Instrument contents
Drive 4 (Western Digital Caviar Black 500GB) for Logic Files, Documents, Music, Photos etc...

Is this the best order of drives for maximum performance for sound production? I used to have a Macbook Pro Retina but found that one HD isn't really any use! I'll be using external hard drives, Apple Time Capsule, and Dropbox for back up.

What would you suggest?

----------

The main thing I was wondering was is it faster to use the two SSD's for the OS in RAID 0, or use one for the logic files? Is the drive speed that the logic projects are on important? Is the drive speed for the NI contents important?

 

[Cubytus]

Is that the nMP?

Well, first I am not sure at all linking two SSDs in RAID0 wouldn't be overkill. For the OS, one is enough.

As for media content for your projects… You could always link two platter drives in RAID0 for better performance, or install a Velociraptor.

 

[drnebulous]

Is that the nMP?

Well, first I am not sure at all linking two SSDs in RAID0 wouldn't be overkill. For the OS, one is enough.

As for media content for your projects… You could always link two platter drives in RAID0 for better performance, or install a Velociraptor.

So do you think this would be better:

Vector 150 for OS
2x Western Digital Black 500GB set to RAID 0 for Logic Projects
1TB Apple drive for Logic, Sibelius, and Native Instruments contents?
I would of thought that the Logic, Sibelius, and Native Instruments contents would need more HD power than the Logic Projects?
No, my MP is the one before the black tube one.

Thanks

 

[Cubytus]

How big is Logic content usually? And projects? Not knowing how Logic works, I would simplify this and have an OS + apps SSD, then a pair of 1TB fast HDD linked in RAID0, or a pair of Velociraptors if noise isn't a concern.

 

[drnebulous]

How big is Logic content usually? And projects? Not knowing how Logic works, I would simplify this and have an OS + apps SSD, then a pair of 1TB fast HDD linked in RAID0, or a pair of Velociraptors if noise isn't a concern.

Logic, Sibelius, IK Multimedia, and NI contents come to about 500GB

 

[Cubytus]

Logic, Sibelius, IK Multimedia, and NI contents come to about 500GB

In which case you need a drive size much larger than that. Platter drive performance sharply decreases as disk usage grows.

 

[drnebulous]

In which case you need a drive size much larger than that. Platter drive performance sharply decreases as disk usage grows.

Not really - 2x 500GB + RAID 0 = 1TB

 

[Marty62]

Hi Dr NEb, have just done this about 6 weeks ago, perhaps you got one of the
2012 "scrumpymacs" computers too ?

System drive = 750gb EVO on Apricorn solo PCIe card.
This includes all apps, Logic / Reason / Pro Tools & Logic content.
( reads / writes at over 400MB/s )

Samples/Data = WD Black 1tb ( reads @ 170MB/s so quite fast )
This includes Spectrasonics / NI / IK / etc Libraries & sample content.

Audio Recording = WD Velociraptor 10,000rpm 1tb writes/reads @ approx
230-250 MB/s and is well fast enough for playing 60+ 24bit tracks.

This works VERY well, I left the Logic content alone and was able to "point"
the rest to the Data drive with no issues.

SSD has over 400gb free so is working very happily.

Loading of large samples blocks is very quick compared to my old 7200rpm
drives - also NOT filling them over 50% will help a lot with access time IMHO.

EDIT- The point is to have Apps / Library / Audio on it's own drive so each has
maximum throughput and no bottleneck.

Keep the system clean and as neat as possible and don't forget BACKUP EVERYTHING !!
( at least 2 x times )

Hope this helps ?

Marty.

 

[drnebulous]

Hi Dr NEb, have just done this about 6 weeks ago, perhaps you got one of the
2012 "scrumpymacs" computers too ?

System drive = 750gb EVO on Apricorn solo PCIe card.
This includes all apps, Logic / Reason / Pro Tools & Logic content.
( reads / writes at over 400MB/s )

Samples/Data = WD Black 1tb ( reads @ 170MB/s so quite fast )
This includes Spectrasonics / NI / IK / etc Libraries & sample content.

Audio Recording = WD Velociraptor 10,000rpm 1tb writes/reads @ approx
230-250 MB/s and is well fast enough for playing 60+ 24bit tracks.

This works VERY well, I left the Logic content alone and was able to "point"
the rest to the Data drive with no issues.

SSD has over 400gb free so is working very happily.

Loading of large samples blocks is very quick compared to my old 7200rpm
drives - also NOT filling them over 50% will help a lot with access time IMHO.

EDIT- The point is to have Apps / Library / Audio on it's own drive so each has
maximum throughput and no bottleneck.

Keep the system clean and as neat as possible and don't forget BACKUP EVERYTHING !!
( at least 2 x times )

Hope this helps ?

Marty.

Hi Marty,
Thank you very much.
No, it wasn't one of the Scrumpymac ones (I think they are only available in US?) - it was one from universal electronix. It was brand new and only cost £1200. I didn't get all the hard drives with it though (only the apple 1tb).

It looks to me like the speed of the drive that holds the logic projects is quite important - do think an SSD would be worth it or overkill?
Thanks again,
DrNebulous

 

[DPUser]

It looks to me like the speed of the drive that holds the logic projects is quite important - do think an SSD would be worth it or overkill?
Thanks again,
DrNebulous

I'm running an all-SSD system (with internal and eternal HDs for backups) in my Digital Performer 8 studio, and it has proved to be a joy. Having set this up a while ago, I went with Intel 330s, which I purchased on sale at prices similar to today's Samsung rates. System and applications reside on a 120 GB SSD in drive bay 1 (in an OWC tray). Two are attached to the internal optical SATA ports (optical drive removed - I used a firewire optical drive on my desktop); the fourth via a PCIe SATA card.

Working project files reside on a 120 GB SSD. Samples reside on two 240 GB SSDs, which essentially serve as read-only devices. Everything happens very quickly on this machine, with 7 sec boot (from Apple screen) and fast project loads.

I would prioritize SSDs over HDs as follows: Boot, Samples, Project.

 

[Marty62]

Hi Marty,
Thank you very much.
No, it wasn't one of the Scrumpymac ones (I think they are only available in US?) - it was one from universal electronix. It was brand new and only cost £1200. I didn't get all the hard drives with it though (only the apple 1tb).

It looks to me like the speed of the drive that holds the logic projects is quite important - do think an SSD would be worth it or overkill?
Thanks again,
DrNebulous

I didn't go "the whole hog" with SSD's as my whole new system was getting
expensive and I had a budget !
I boot the MP in 15 seconds, Logic X loads really quickly and projects also
load quickly.
I may go for a second SSD for the Samples library at some point but now
it's working really well.
For Audio recording, SSD's are not recommended due to the number of
writes and re-writes but I don't know if that's BS or not.
I have a smaller 256gb M4 that I am trying as a scratch record disk at the
moment but I constantly copy it to the WD audio drive !

Cheers,
Marty.

 

[Cubytus]

I'm running an all-SSD system (with internal and eternal HDs for backups) in my Digital Performer 8 studio, and it has proved to be a joy.

Sure if you can afford more than a grand for just a modest amount of storage.

Two are attached to the internal optical SATA ports (optical drive removed - I used a firewire optical drive on my desktop)

Are these ports SATA III? I heard ports for optical drives were not always full-speed SATA

I didn't go "the whole hog" with SSD's as my whole new system was getting
expensive and I had a budget !

Good to see some people don't go all-crazy about SSDs and have a reasonable budget in these tight economic times.

For Audio recording, SSD's are not recommended due to the number of
writes and re-writes but I don't know if that's BS or not.

That was true of earlier SSDs, but not so anymore. The maximum number of read-writes on a SSD is now so high it shouldn't be an issue for some years under normal usage. Still, you may want to have a look at your daily read-write, in gigabytes.

 

[SimonUK5]

I run a Main Boot drive SSD, a second small 120gb SSD as a scratch drive, for CURRENT PROJECT ONLY.

And then a pair of 4tb mirrored, for backup.

Works pretty well for me using a MacPro 1,1 with Logic 9 and Cubase.

 

[DPUser]

Are these ports SATA III? I heard ports for optical drives were not always full-speed SATA

All SATA ports in cheese greater Mac Pros are SATA2. To get SATA3 you need a PCIe card. That said, with their fast seek times, SSDs are great on SATAII and still leave HDs in the dust. Especially for boot drive use, the user is unlikely to notice a difference between SATA 2 and 3.

PS: I didn't spend a fortune in these "tight economic times." All backups and long-term storage are spinners. I spent under $500 on SSDs. A worthy investment IMO.

And I wish I had "eternal HDs"... a slight typo there! Alas, I still must back up redundantly to feel secure.

 

[Cubytus]

All SATA ports in cheese greater Mac Pros are SATA2. To get SATA3 you need a PCIe card. That said, with their fast seek times, SSDs are great on SATAII and still leave HDs in the dust.

SATA2 in my non-Pro MB, even with a SSD, is not exceptional. Just under 140MBps. But was told it may be a firmware limitation with SATA3-designed models when installed on SATA2. Simultaneous access is probably where it shines, rather than pure access speed.

Is there a way to know the fastest speed reached in daily usage? Activity Monitor never goes above 80MBps on this machine, but still doesn't feel slow.

PS: I didn't spend a fortune in these "tight economic times." All backups and long-term storage are spinners. I spent under $500 on SSDs. A worthy investment IMO.

Sure, if you can afford it. $500 is nowhere cheap when you have to settle for a lower-paid job, not have as many customers as before, or plain unemployed like millions of people in our countries.

And I wish I had "eternal HDs"... a slight typo there! Alas, I still must back up redundantly to feel secure.

What is your strategy for offsite backups?

 

[DPUser]

What is your strategy for offsite backups?

I rotate identical TM external HDs on and off site. HD Power Supply stays in place. I keep the spare PS offsite incase the onsite PS dies (as they seem to like to do.)

PS: Yes, people are starving in the world. What right have any of us to enjoy the amazing standard of living we do? (wrings hands)

My SSDs are worth it for me. If you don't feel the cost/benefit ratio warrants your purchase of SSDs, don't buy 'em. But please don't throw up platitudes here.

 

[Cubytus]

I rotate identical TM external HDs on and off site. HD Power Supply stays in place. I keep the spare PS offsite incase the onsite PS dies (as they seem to like to do.)

PS: Yes, people are starving in the world. What right have any of us to enjoy the amazing standard of living we do? (wrings hands)

My SSDs are worth it for me. If you don't feel the cost/benefit ratio warrants your purchase of SSDs, don't buy 'em. But please don't throw up platitudes here.

Sure it's nice to spend more than half your wage just for housing. Welcome to North America.

I never said my SSD wasn't worth it. Just that decent sizes are too expensive and don't provide as much benefit as many claim.

Well that's a simple strategy that works. I thought it would have been more complicated given how your setup seems to be.

 

[offtheroad]

Logic Pro X

I'm new at Logic and running it on a 1TB internal HD with 230GB free space I have a 1TB external not in use so what is the best way I could use both? I have a 9yr old Mac Pro with 12GB RAM. Also I have a lot of Apple duplicate loops that got loaded when I installed the Extra Content and one last question. How do you load plugin's I have a few of them or are the plugin's that come with Logic plenty for a beginner. I also have a POD HD500X
Thanks

 

[drnebulous]

I didn't go "the whole hog" with SSD's as my whole new system was getting
expensive and I had a budget !
I boot the MP in 15 seconds, Logic X loads really quickly and projects also
load quickly.
I may go for a second SSD for the Samples library at some point but now
it's working really well.
For Audio recording, SSD's are not recommended due to the number of
writes and re-writes but I don't know if that's BS or not.
I have a smaller 256gb M4 that I am trying as a scratch record disk at the
moment but I constantly copy it to the WD audio drive !

Cheers,
Marty.

Yes, I think that the problem with using SSD's is that with extreme write/delete operations they lose capacity and size as well as lifespan. They are also expensive. I think that at the moment SSD's are only practical for the OS

Sure it's nice to spend more than half your wage just for housing.

I've never understood this. People live in houses too expensive and then complain about the price of computers. I'd rather live in a studio flat with loads of free money than a detached struggling for my next jam butty.

I'm new at Logic and running it on a 1TB internal HD with 230GB free space I have a 1TB external not in use so what is the best way I could use both? I have a 9yr old Mac Pro with 12GB RAM. Also I have a lot of Apple duplicate loops that got loaded when I installed the Extra Content and one last question. How do you load plugin's I have a few of them or are the plugin's that come with Logic plenty for a beginner. I also have a POD HD500X
Thanks

Best thing you could do with the external drive is take the the HD out of the case and put it into the computer. USB 2 is super slow and useless for any proper work. As far as the duplicates, you need to reinstall logic. Yes, the plug-ins are fine for beginners but if you're a guitarist you need Amplitube 3 - that POD is no good for you. Amplitube 3 is a plug-in which means you can do anything you want with the guitar track after recording it. I use it as my ONLY amp. In all reality, once the track is mixed, you can't tell the difference between the orange rockerverb tube amp and the amplitube emulation, but with the POD..............


Ampltube is the future for guitars. Tube amps are not practical in 2014 just like acoustic pianos aren't. In fact, I don't even have a digital keyboard, I use an MPK88 with Native Instruments. This is how the evolution goes:

Guitars:
Tube Amp > Modelling Pedal > Plug-in

Pianos:
Acoustic Piano > Digital Keyboard > Midi Controller + Plug-in


Having a Tube amp and an Acoustic piano in a city centre flat would be crazy. If you want a tube amp you have to make a gigantic sacrifice - live in the countryside!!! No tower blocks, no trams, no trains, no taxis, no arndales, no music clubs, no functional society, no evolution, no purpose - just a miserable field with rotting broccoli in sludgy horse muck. Not worth it.