MP 7,1 How to add cards to MP7,1

[CrystalmakeR]

I want to add to my MP7,1 (16 cores, default video card, 32GB RAM, Pegasus j2i 8TB):

4 x 32 GB RAM modules
1 x RME RayDAT
2 x Sonnet Tempo SSD with extension plate (I want add 2 x 1 TB OWC Mercury Electra SSDs and 2 x Samsung EVO 850 SSDs - for sample libraries)
1 x type A USB card - any recommendation is very much welcome

Q: Are there preferred slots for these cards, or it does not matter which slots do I use for them?

 

[deconstruct60]

I want to add to my MP7,1 (16 cores, default video card, 32GB RAM, Pegasus j2i 8TB):

4 x 32 GB RAM modules
1 x RME RayDAT
2 x Sonnet Tempo SSD with extension plate (I want add 2 x 1 TB OWC Mercury Electra SSDs and 2 x Samsung EVO 850 SSDs - for sample libraries)
1 x type A USB card - any recommendation is very much welcome

Q: Are there preferred slots for these cards, or it does not matter which slots do I use for them?

There are physical constraints for your cards width wise. That puts some constraints on where they should likely go. ( a bit of a waste to put a single width card into a double wide slot).

Apple's support document.

Install PCIe cards in your Mac Pro (2019) - Apple Support

Learn about the PCIe slots on your Mac Pro (2019) and how to install additional cards.

support.apple.com

The RME card is pragmatically a double wide card. So you will need one of the double wide slots in the MPX bays that are open. ( slots 5-8 won't work as they are all single wide. ). if have the MPX 580X video module, then slot 2 is a reasonable place to put this.


The Tempo SSD cards are PCI-e v2 x4 , so any single width x8 slot would do ( actually a bit of overkill).
[ if these are previously purchased (already owned) and/or used then makes sense for an invested, "sunk cost' sense. If looking for something new Sonnet has a newer card now for 2.5" drives.
https://www.sonnettech.com/product/fusion-dual-ssd-raid/overview.html ] .


Type A USB card with how many ports, how much power , and how independent the sockets? ( cards can come with 1 , 2 , or 4 USB controllers for a variety of sockets. ). These will highly likely be single width, so again no sense in "wasting" a double width slot on one of these. A card that is purely PCI-e bus powered will simplify things ( don't have to buy more power cables). Again unlikely to go past x4 PCI-e lanes ( and often PCI-e v2 so again 'overkill' in terms of bandwidth of Mac Pro 2019 slots; any of them. ).


If the Mac Pro PCIe "Expansion slot utility" manager app seems to suggestion a "problem" of oversubscription there isn't. That app is more so "slot occupied." and "Thunderbolt port being used" than a dynamic measure of oversubscription. A suggested potential problem more so than one with these kinds of cards which have relatively low bandwidth requirements. You are not going to creating any "chokepoint" with any of the above cards at all. You could randomly insert them into the MP 2019 where they could possibly fit and it wouldn't make much difference at all.


One configuration with an eye to future replacement/ expansion would be:

slot 5 : tempo card (eventually replace with multiple M.2 drive x16 PCI-e v3 card )
slot 6 : tempo card ( eye toward eventual x4-x8 PCI-e v3 storage card )
slot 7 : USB card (presuming it doesn't need extra power cable.)


slot 2 : RME card ( double wide)

 

[Snow Tiger]

Intriguingly , your RME HDSPe RayDAT card only requires one PCIe slot with one lane of PCIe Rev 1.1 and a minimum of mac OS 10.4.8 ( Tiger ) . It does require a double wide slot ( or two single wide slots ) .

This card can be installed in a lot of old Mac Pros .

 

[deconstruct60]

Intriguingly , your RME HDSPe RayDAT card only requires one PCIe slot with one lane of PCIe Rev 1.1 and a minimum of mac OS 10.4.8 ( Tiger ) . It does require a double wide slot ( or two single wide slots ) .

Unless evict the Apple I/O card from slot 8 there is less options for single slot cards than for possible double ones. While could soak up two single slot with the set up, that would toss away a usable slot connector from future use. And if push a possible single slot card into a double wide space in the future only possibly doubling down on possible mismatches.

This card can be installed in a lot of old Mac Pros .

The baseline implementation for card was announced in 2009.

"RME’s HDSPe RayDAT is one of four new interface cards for Windows and Mac OS (10.4.8 and up) that comprise RME’s PCI Express series. ..."
https://www.audiotechnology.com/reviews/rme-hdspe-raydat

if it didn't fit into the existing systems back then it would have been in a world of trouble.
It easily fits in old systems because it is old itself.


P.S. Card that haven't been superseded with effectively new product versions should be in good shape as Apple revises the kernel driver interface over the next couple of macOS releases. The ones that are really old and largely cash cows ( minimal work put in for max return margin) are going to come under risk (as drivers may or may not make the transition for substantially older stuff. )

 

[CrystalmakeR]

The Tempo SSD cards are PCI-e v2 x4 , so any single width x8 slot would do ( actually a bit of overkill).
[ if these are previously purchased (already owned) and/or used then makes sense for an invested, "sunk cost' sense. If looking for something new Sonnet has a newer card now for 2.5" drives.

Indeed, these items are coming form my current MacPros (3,1 and 5,1).
I will look into the newer Sonnet's card later, thanks for the suggestion.
Note: BTW I am replacing 3 Macs (relatively complicated audio routings, etc...) with the MP7,1.
I want to run my DAW and VEPRO in one machine .

One configuration with an eye to future replacement/ expansion would be:

slot 5 : tempo card (eventually replace with multiple M.2 drive x16 PCI-e v3 card )
slot 6 : tempo card ( eye toward eventual x4-x8 PCI-e v3 storage card )
slot 7 : USB card (presuming it doesn't need extra power cable.)


slot 2 : RME card ( double wide)

I like this configuration .

In fact the "full" RayDAT needs 3 slots (including the Wordclock card) and this is what I want to install - sorry to be not clear about it in my original post. So, taking the RayDAT's Word clock card into the game how shall I modify the above configuration?

Any recommendation for the type A USB card (4 ports) is very much welcome.

 

[Snow Tiger]

Unless evict the Apple I/O card from slot 8 there is less options for single slot cards than for possible double ones. While could soak up two single slot with the set up, that would toss away a usable slot connector from future use. And if push a possible single slot card into a double wide space in the future only possibly doubling down on possible mismatches.




The baseline implementation for card was announced in 2009.

"RME’s HDSPe RayDAT is one of four new interface cards for Windows and Mac OS (10.4.8 and up) that comprise RME’s PCI Express series. ..."
https://www.audiotechnology.com/reviews/rme-hdspe-raydat

if it didn't fit into the existing systems back then it would have been in a world of trouble.
It easily fits in old systems because it is old itself.


P.S. Card that haven't been superseded with effectively new product versions should be in good shape as Apple revises the kernel driver interface over the next couple of macOS releases. The ones that are really old and largely cash cows ( minimal work put in for max return margin) are going to come under risk (as drivers may or may not make the transition for substantially older stuff. )

The proprietary Apple I/O Card requires the MP7,1's proprietary PCIe Slot number 8 , so you can't install it anywhere else .

My goodness , doesn't anyone realize how incredibly low the bandwidth is with the RME card ? 250 MB/s . Is this really a high performance digital audio card by today's standards ? Or is it the Photoshop of PCIe Cards ?

 

[CrystalmakeR]

The proprietary Apple I/O Card requires the MP7,1's proprietary PCIe Slot number 8 , so you can't install it anywhere else .

OK, clear!

 

[Snow Tiger]

Sonnet has a great two controller chip , four USB Type A port 10 Gbps PCIe card for your MP7,1 .

Allegro Pro Type-A USB 3.2 PCIe .

Allegro Pro Type A USB 3.2 Gen 2 - Sonnet

I've used these in cMPs with nice results .

If you connect two different high performance drives concurrently , make certain they each use a port with a dedicated controller for best results .

far left and near left ports utilize one controller , near right and far right ports utilize the other controller .

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Sonnet has a great two controller chip , four USB Type A port 10 Gbps PCIe card for your MP7,1 .

Allegro Pro Type-A USB 3.2 PCIe .

Thanks! I have just ordered it.

My goodness , doesn't anyone realize how incredibly low the bandwidth is with the RME card ? 250 MB/s . Is this really a high performance digital audio card by today's standards ? Or is it the Photoshop of PCIe Cards ?

Q: Is there another high-end audio PCIe card on the market whith 4 IN/4OUT ADAT ports (32 MONO channels) and Wordclock IN/OUT?

 

[Snow Tiger]

Thanks! I have just ordered it.



Q: Is there another high-end audio PCIe card on the market whith 4 IN/4OUT ADAT ports (32 MONO channels) and Wordclock IN/OUT?

I don't know , but everything being held equal this card will work in a 2006 Mac Pro just as nicely as in your 2019 Mac Pro . The card only requires one PCIe REV 1.1 lane ! Mercy ! Anything less demanding would be in the stone age ( eMagic running on a PPC Mac ) .

The big difference between those two extreme Systems is memory configurations , number of cores / threads , data import / export interfaces , processor features and supported OSes .

With most audio editing software , the more CPU threads you have in your System the more tracks will have dedicated hardware resources ( which reduces latency ) .

More memory means more plugins , but memory is cheap and it should not be an issue these days .

What audio editor are you using ?

 

[CrystalmakeR]

DP with VEPRO (for sample libraries). I am aiming for a very low latency, preferably 64 samples (at 44,1 kHz, 24 bit). BTW, I am not a plugin person; my orchestral works do not need plugins. My current setup uses 3-4 machines, my aim is to have ONLY one machine = MP7,1.

 

[Snow Tiger]

DP with VEPRO (for sample libraries). I am aiming for a very low latency, preferably 64 samples (at 44,1 kHz, 24 bit). BTW, I am not a plugin person; my orchestral works do not need plugins. My current setup uses 3-4 machines, my aim is to have ONLY one machine = MP7,1.

Just lower the buffer size as much as you can and raise the sample rates as high as you can . You're going to like all the power in Cascade Lake Xeons .

You might also toy with the idea of installing one or two additional NVMe PCIe SSDs in your System , not related to the factory drive . Maybe OS , apps , samples and working drive all on one drive . Maybe OS , apps , samples on one drive and another drive for your working drive . Depends . You can install a number of drives on a single PCIe Drive Interface Card .

Remember , with the MP7,1 you are not restricted to the factory drive as your boot device . The factory drive is just the key to the machine - it needs to be there for one reason alone ( boot ROM ) . It doesn't need to do anything else . Once your Mac is able to initiate the start up sequence , you can use other installed and connected drives to boot an OS from .

If your workflow proves too complex and latency goes up , then install a faster processor .

 

[CrystalmakeR]

You might also toy with the idea of installing one or two additional NVMe PCIe SSDs in your System , not related to the factory drive . Maybe OS , apps , samples and working drive all on one drive . Maybe OS , apps , samples on one drive and another drive for your working drive . Depends . You can install a number of drives on a single PCIe Drive Interface Card .

All clear. If you read my original post, at the moment I am going to instal:
2 x Sonnet Tempo SSD cards with extension plates (2 x 1 TB OWC Mercury Electra SSDs and 2 x Samsung EVO 850 SSDs - for sample libraries).
I believe these will be fast enough for streaming the samples, if not, I will look into your suggestion. Thanks!

Now, there is one "little" issue. I have to wait for the machine to be delivered...as soon it is here, I will start to transfer SW/HW/sample libraries/etc...from my current 3 machines to the new one. I have reserved one full week for this job and I hope to accomplish it in 3-4 days. Am I too optimistic ?

I have seen on this forum a suggestion that the MP7,1 "should" be put under some (3rd party SW) test prior upgrading it (installing new parts into it). Personally I found this a bit strange as I have never put any of my previous Macs (and I had plenty of them) under any tests.

 

[Snow Tiger]

I have seen on this forum a suggestion that the MP7,1 "should" be put under some (3rd party SW) test prior upgrading it (installing new parts into it). Personally I found this a bit strange as I have never put any of my previous Macs (and I had plenty of them) under any tests.

Nothing wrong with performing a burn in of your Mac right after you received it .

If anything , if the system fans are going to fail it'll be within the first week of heavy use .

I upgraded the processor of my MP7,1 ( from the factory 8 Core to aftermarket 28 Core ) and she already passed a stress test for 100 hours straight that pushed all the threads of the CPU at 100 percent usage . Cool as a cucumber with all the fans at 1000 RPM. Very quiet , too .

The test was the GIMPS prime test in macOS .

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Cool as a cucumber with all the fans at 1000 RPM. Very quiet , too

"Very quite" I like this a lot 👍. I often mix at very low volumes ...I am already dreaming.

 

[Snow Tiger]

"Very quite" I like this a lot 👍. I often mix at very low volumes ...I am already dreaming.

On one of the threads here I actually measured the sound pressure of the MP7,1 while she was doing her stuff , if you're into decibels .

The new Mac Pro is not that quiet?

OK , I have the results from my System . MP7,1 ( 2019 ) 28 Core W-3275M Xeon 96 GB ( 6 x 16 GB ) 2933 MHz DDR4 580X factory graphics 256GB factory SSD . macOS Catalina . She currently has all her cores at long term continuous load and all the system fans are at 1000 RPM using MFC . Meter is...

forums.macrumors.com

 

[CrystalmakeR]

OK, clear. I have read it.
My studio SPL meter also does not go very deep. Anyhow, once she is here I will hear her whispering . Note: Recently the ear doctor said that my hearing is very good. We will see
[automerge]1580833562[/automerge]

Nothing wrong with performing a burn in of your Mac right after you received it .

Can you elaborate a bit more on this subject, please?

 

[Snow Tiger]

Nothing wrong with performing a burn in of your Mac right after you received it .

Can you elaborate a bit more on this subject, please?

Do you want a full list of apps to push all the major components of your Mac concurrently and continuously at load ? Computer manufacturers and System Builders will perform this operation for around 12 - 24 hours before releasing the computer to client ( or boxing it up , if a retail item ) . For the MP7,1 I am still in the process of developing a suite of programs to do this , but I'll give you what I have if you'd like .

 

[CrystalmakeR]

Do you say that Apple is going to do a final "test" burn in test before shipping it to me?

 

[Snow Tiger]

Do you say that Apple is going to do a final "test" burn in test before shipping it to me?

Apple used to call this test a "run in" test . Today , we'd say burn in or stress test .