How to clean install?

[Astrohunter]

Hi,

I will be doing a clean install on external thunderbolt 4 SSD.

I am not sure how to install developer beta this way?

Mac Mini M1.

 

[DeltaMac]

Make a bootable installer for the Dev Beta.
boot to the recovery system, and make sure the security settings allow you to boot from an external drive.
Boot to the external installer.
Install Sonoma beta, selecting your external TB SSD as the destination.
That's the main points, should work...

 

[Astrohunter]

Make a bootable installer for the Dev Beta.
boot to the recovery system, and make sure the security settings allow you to boot from an external drive.
Boot to the external installer.
Install Sonoma beta, selecting your external TB SSD as the destination.
That's the main points, should work...

Will try but I was never able to boot from external on m1.

 

[DeltaMac]

Did you change the Security setting in your recovery system to allow booting from external drives?
That is needed before you can boot from any external device.
If you think you have a bootable installer, also test for booting on a different Mac, or (while booted to the normal system), check with that drive attached, in System Settings/General/Startup Disk - to see if the bootable installer is recognized there as a bootable device. If not, something is wrong with how you made it.

 

[Astrohunter]

Did you change the Security setting in your recovery system to allow booting from external drives?
That is needed before you can boot from any external device.
If you think you have a bootable installer, also test for booting on a different Mac, or (while booted to the normal system), check with that drive attached, in System Settings/General/Startup Disk - to see if the bootable installer is recognized there as a bootable device. If not, something is wrong with how you made it.

I have installed it successfully but the OS seems to lag sometimes badly.

Write and read speeds are around 2700MB/s and temps around 50C so it’s really strange.

Also I just had a weird problem, I decided to go back to having Mac OS on internal drive which was formatted, so I disconnected the drive and rebooted.

My Mac wouldn’t output any signal no matter what, and had an orange blinking light.

I had to reconnect the drive to get signal and run recovery mode.

What a mess this process is lol.

 

[DeltaMac]

You said you disconnected the drive... That would be the external drive?
"orange blinking light"? That would be the power LED on your monitor/display? Or was it somewhere else (where?)

Is this an external drive that you made (SSD or NVME stick in an external enclosure), or a commercial external drive (which brand?)

Just curious... Why would you erase the internal drive?
That would leave you with no easy way back, if the beta install should go wrong

 

[Astrohunter]

You said you disconnected the drive... That would be the external drive?
"orange blinking light"? That would be the power LED on your monitor/display? Or was it somewhere else (where?)

Is this an external drive that you made (SSD or NVME stick in an external enclosure), or a commercial external drive (which brand?)

Just curious... Why would you erase the internal drive?
That would leave you with no easy way back, if the beta install should go wrong

Disconnected external drive, Samsung 980 PRO 2TB in Acasis M2 NVMe SSD Enclosure 40Gbps USB C Aluminum NVMe Enclosure.

I have formatted the internal drive after installing MacOS on the external.
The orange blinking light is the LED light on Mac mini, power light or you name it.

According to Apple orange light means firmware problem.
Really strange.

 

[chabig]

I have formatted the internal drive after installing MacOS on the external.

You wiped the internal drive and are surprised that the machine won't boot from it?

 

[Astrohunter]

You wiped the internal drive and are surprised that the machine won't boot from it?

No?

As I said Mac OS was already installed on external drive.
Without the drive being connected Mac wouldn't even output any HDMI signal and would flash orange LED which I have never seen before.

 

[chabig]

I was confused then by what you wrote here.

Also I just had a weird problem, I decided to go back to having Mac OS on internal drive which was formatted, so I disconnected the drive and rebooted.

My Mac wouldn’t output any signal no matter what, and had an orange blinking light.

It sounded like you disconnected the external drive then became confused about why the machine wouldn't boot from the internal drive, which was formatted (i.e., had no operating system).

 

[Astrohunter]

I was confused then by what you wrote here.



It sounded like you disconnected the external drive then became confused about why the machine wouldn't boot from the internal drive, which was formatted (i.e., had no operating system).

If the formatted internal drive is formatted it should still display signal when you turn it on.
How else would you be supposed to enter recovery mode?

 

[chabig]

Yes. Good point! Let me ask...when you formatted the internal drive, did you reformat the entire SSD? That would remove the recovery system I think, making it impossible to boot to recovery. And without the recovery OS to initialize hardware that might explain why you didn't get a video signal. If you actually did reformat the entire SSD, I think you might have to find another Mac and restore the machine using Configurator.

Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon using Apple Configurator

 

[Astrohunter]

Yes. Good point! Let me ask...when you formatted the internal drive, did you reformat the entire SSD? That would remove the recovery system I think, making it impossible to boot to recovery. And without the recovery OS to initialize hardware that might explain why you didn't get a video signal. If you actually did reformat the entire SSD, I think you might have to find another Mac and restore the machine using Configurator.

Revive or restore a Mac with Apple silicon using Apple Configurator

Yes formatted whole but I was able to boot recovery after connecting the SSD.

 

[chabig]

You reconnected the external drive and booted it to recovery? Does that let you reinstall macOS on the internal?

 

[Astrohunter]

You reconnected the external drive and booted it to recovery? Does that let you reinstall macOS on the internal?

Yep.
Now I don't know anymore if the Samsung SSD sucks or the enclosure, I will try to use different SSD in same enclosure and will see.

 

[DeltaMac]

The flashing amber LED (Apple calls that a Status Indicator Light (SIL) means that your Mac was booted to firmware recovery mode, which then should mean that the firmware needs to be recovered (reloaded), and not necessarily a firmware "problem". You never saw that before, because that was after you erased the internal boot drive. And, it seems that you were successful in the recovery of both the firmware, and the macOS system.
In this case, you weren't able to boot to recovery mode, probably because there was no longer any link to a boot system, because you erased the drive.
As Chabig states, your mini may still need to be restored with the Configurator app.

 

[Astrohunter]

The flashing amber LED (Apple calls that a Status Indicator Light (SIL) means that your Mac was booted to firmware recovery mode, which then should mean that the firmware needs to be recovered (reloaded), and not necessarily a firmware "problem". You never saw that before, because that was after you erased the internal boot drive. And, it seems that you were successful in the recovery of both the firmware, and the macOS system.
In this case, you weren't able to boot to recovery mode, probably because there was no longer any link to a boot system, because you erased the drive.
As Chabig states, your mini may still need to be restored with the Configurator app.

To be honest Apple turned it all to a total mess.

I just put some cheap Chinese SSD into the enclosure I've previously used for the Samsung SSD and installed Mac OS onto it. It doesn't lag like Samsung did, so at least now I know to send it back lol.

Why it's a mess? Because my Mac had Mac OS already installed onto internal SSD, I didn't touch the partition or anything, I simply booted SD card with installer and selected external drive to install it there as a second system.
After shutdown and disconnecting the external drive, you turn on the Mac, and NOTHING.

You get no signal, no way to enter recovery mode either, the only thing that works is connecting the second Chinese drive and only then I will get HDMI signal at boot and will be able to see boot loader which let's me select internal drive.
Then in the settings you have to go to "Startup disk" and select internal drive.

It's the dumbest thing ever that you won't even see boot loader without the external drive...

Anyway stay away from Samsung's SSDs.

 

[DeltaMac]

You DID say in your post #5 (again in your post #7) above, that you formatted the internal drive after installed macOS on the external drive.
And, now you say that macOS was already installed on the internal SSD (of course, you were using it), and you "didn't touch the partition or anything."
If you actually formatted the internal drive, then that would remove both the boot partition, AND the Recovery partition, the hidden partition where the local recovery system is kept - which will explain why you can't boot to the recovery system (it's gone - you removed it when you formatted the internal drive.
Unless you didn't - but you did something>>>...
You won't see the boot loader screen, when there are no boot partitions available. It would then appear when you plug in your external boot drive. Nothing unusual there.

 

[Astrohunter]

You DID say in your post #5 (again in your post #7) above, that you formatted the internal drive after installed macOS on the external drive.
And, now you say that macOS was already installed on the internal SSD (of course, you were using it), and you "didn't touch the partition or anything."
If you actually formatted the internal drive, then that would remove both the boot partition, AND the Recovery partition, the hidden partition where the local recovery system is kept - which will explain why you can't boot to the recovery system (it's gone - you removed it when you formatted the internal drive.
Unless you didn't - but you did something>>>...
You won't see the boot loader screen, when there are no boot partitions available. It would then appear when you plug in your external boot drive. Nothing unusual there.

As I said last time I installed Mac OS on external drive I didn't touch the internal drive...

I had a bootable working Mac OS on internal SSD, I booted an installer from SD card and selected external drive, after installing it Mac wouldn't output signal without external drive connected, even though I didn't touch internal SSD this time.

Another thing is that formatting internal SSD shouldn't cause loss of boot loader files/partition.
I have done countless formats in the last decade selecting whole disk and formatting it, and never ever had any problems with boot loader.

Since Silicone CPUs when you try to format internal SSD it gives popup with option "restart and erase", and you certainly don't lose boot partition after doing so.

 

[DeltaMac]

If you formatted the internal drive, while booted to the external, then you don't get the same message that you would get while booted to the internal drive.
That's what you said you did, after you first installed macOS on the external.
You would be allowed to choose the device (not just the drive) and format/erase the drive, which would then remove all of its partitions.
You won't get the same warning when you are booted to the external drive, then try to format the internal drive.

 

[Astrohunter]

If you formatted the internal drive, while booted to the external, then you don't get the same message that you would get while booted to the internal drive.
That's what you said you did, after you first installed macOS on the external.
You would be allowed to choose the device (not just the drive) and format/erase the drive, which would then remove all of its partitions.
You won't get the same warning when you are booted to the external drive, then try to format the internal drive.

I played with it on 2 days, and on second day I didn't format the internal SSD, so the recovery partition would still have to be there.

Anyway if the whole boot loader resides on SSD I think it's quite silly, I thought that there is something like BIOS equivalent somewhere on the mobo.

 

[DeltaMac]

Yes, the boot picker screen is in firmware, so similar to BIOS.
I am pretty sure that the boot picker is supported by the Secure Enclave chip in your m1 mini.
It would use the boot files that are on a bootable partition, so, in that sense, the boot loader is part of any bootable partition. Maybe this is not technically accurate, but certainly close enough, as there has to be some kind of firmware support for any bootable device. And, the operating system has to provide boot files that use that firmware. All kinda works together, right?

And, for the fusion drive. That is actually not a real drive at all. It is a software configuration of the two devices (spinning hard drive, and the m.2-type blade that is the SSD in the fusion drive). The two devices are combined into one virtual drive, similar in some ways to a RAID. And, you don't have the hard drive (replaced with your SSD), and you erased the left-over SSD, so now you only have a configuration setup, but nothing still exists on the fusion drive, it's just a "software shadow". You COULD choose that drive in the list on your Disk Utility, then right-click on whatever listing for the fusion drive, then choose delete, or remove, or simply unmount.

 

[Astrohunter]

I don't use Fusion Drive.

On second day of playing with it I didn't touch the internal SSD and it still wouldn't output any signal over HDMI without the external SSD connected via USB.
I had to reconnect it, hold power button, and only then I could get some signal and it would show me internal SSD which would boot fine lol.

To be able to use the Mac OS on internal SSD I had to go to Settings and Startup disk, select internal SSD, put my password in. After reboot it would boot without external drive connected.

The boot loader/recovery should work fine even if the internal SSD was wiped, not to mention any HDMI signal.

Where is macOS Internet Recovery stored?

I read on another site that you can use macOS Internet Recovery to install macOS on a blank SSD? Where would the files be stored? On the firmware? If there any way that the firmware could be erased...

apple.stackexchange.com

Long Version: The code which permits Internet Recovery Mode (i.e. a slightly modified TFTPclient) is stored in the computer's firmware. (In fact, it is a part of it). It's similar to the BIOS chip on Windows computers. When you boot through Internet Recovery, it will download a recovery partition image and load it into the computer's RAM. After this process, you will be able to boot into the normal macOS Recovery interface.

Short Version: If you were to wipe/replace your hard drive, Internet Recovery would automatically download and load a recovery partition image into the RAM, so you would be safe (as long as you have a backup of your data).

PS. Also, it is impossible to wipe the laptop's firmware with a simple sudo rm -rf / command.

Source: Chat with Apple Support

 

[dsemf]

Mx Macs do not support Internet Recovery.

See this link for the Mx Mac boot process: https://eclecticlight.co/2023/07/18/what-is-firmware-for-and-why-does-it-need-updating/

DS