MP All Models How to future proof Mac Pro (7,1) vs Mac Studio?

[Farravi]

I am in the market for a 2nd hand  Desktop.

Looking to upgrade from my cMP (using Monterey [OC])

I am considering a MP 7.1 or a Mac Studio.

Of course Mac studio is considerably cheaper than a MP 7.1, however, it will have a shorter shelf life due to its lack of upgradability where as MP 7.1 can be upgraded to a certain extent, not sure what exactly but it's feasible.

When purchasing what is the minimum spec you would recommend, i.e what specs would worth spending the extra now as it would be harder to upgrade later, this of course would apply mainly to MP 7.1 vs MS which would be next to impossible to upgrade from what I've read.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

 

[salamanderjuice]

Don't forget at some point Apple is going to end support for Intel Macs and you'll be stuck on whatever the last version of that is or some 3rd party OS like Windows or Linux unless you're OK with old software.

AFAIK there's nothing fixed in the Mac Pro besides logic board but the boot SSD must be an Apple proprietary one. They actually do sell upgrades but it's $600 for 1TB...

1TB SSD Kit for Mac Pro

The 1TB SSD Kit for Mac Pro enables you to upgrade the internal SSD storage capacity of your Mac Pro. This kit, containing two 512GB modules, replaces the current SSD module(s) in your system. Installation required.

www.apple.com

 

[avro707]

I am in the market for a 2nd hand  Desktop.

Looking to upgrade from my cMP (using Monterey [OC])

I am considering a MP 7.1 or a Mac Studio.

Of course Mac studio is considerably cheaper than a MP 7.1, however, it will have a shorter shelf life due to its lack of upgradability where as MP 7.1 can be upgraded to a certain extent, not sure what exactly but it's feasible.

When purchasing what is the minimum spec you would recommend, i.e what specs would worth spending the extra now as it would be harder to upgrade later, this of course would apply mainly to MP 7.1 vs MS which would be next to impossible to upgrade from what I've read.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

1TB minimum for the boot drive.

I went for the 3.2ghz 16 core processor, it seems to be good compromise.

GPU you can probably just go anything and even put in a RX6900XT, but I was buying new so it was W6800X MPX module.

You can probably install 28 core 2.5ghz W3275M later on (if they come down in price) - watch Amazon or eBay for NON QS processors second hand.

The 7,1 runs Windows 11 Pro happily and very stable/fast. I haven’t had any Windows crashes at all.

It would appear that for Windows only you might be able to use Nvidia 4090…

 

[Farravi]

Thanks gents.

I should add, my primary use will be mostly Microsoft Office, Emails, Browsing, light photo/video editing and would like to run both MacOS and Windows

 

[m1maverick]

Thanks gents.

I should add, my primary use will be mostly Microsoft Office, Emails, Browsing, light photo/video editing and would like to run both MacOS and Windows

I don't believe you can run Windows, at least the Intel versions, natively on any AS Mac. Thus the 7,1 Mac Pro would be it.

 

[prefuse07]

I don't believe you can run Windows, at least the Intel versions, natively on any AS Mac. Thus the 7,1 Mac Pro would be it.

Correct, and Microsoft has announced that if anyone on apple silicon wants to run Windows, it will be via virtualization (Parallels).

OP, my vote would be to find a good deal on a 7,1 on eBay, and just go for it. IMO -- The Studio is a joke, and shouldn't even be mentioned in the same sentence as a Mac Pro...

 

[randy85]

Apart from the Windows thing I think the Studio is the better buy for you. Even if you manage to upgrade the CPU on a 7.1 to the 28 core chip, it'll still be slower than an M1 Ultra.

If you spec it with enough ram and storage from the start then you should be fine for a long while.

The only exception would be if you needed more GPU power than the M1 Ultra, but if you're only doing light video work it should be more than enough.

For the cost of buying and upgrading a 7.1, you could buy a Mac Studio now and then a newer Mac Studio later.

 

[m1maverick]

Apart from the Windows thing I think the Studio is the better buy for you. Even if you manage to upgrade the CPU on a 7.1 to the 28 core chip, it'll still be slower than an M1 Ultra.

I think a Studio is overkill for the tasks given by the OP. An M2 Mac Mini would easily be enough for that workload (assuming an alternative solution for running Windows).

 

[TrevorR90]

MP 7,1

Get an 8 Core base model with 32gb and 256gb SSD.

You can upgrade CPU, the ram and SSD for much cheaper than apple charges. You can also put any pcie card into it.

Also, I'm pretty sure intel will be supported for the next 7 years with the MP 7,1. If it isn't then you still have the windows side to play with. Lately, I've been using the windows side on my MP much more than Mac.

 

[Boil]

I am in the market for a 2nd hand  Desktop.

Looking to upgrade from my cMP (using Monterey [OC])

I am considering a MP 7.1 or a Mac Studio.

Of course Mac studio is considerably cheaper than a MP 7.1, however, it will have a shorter shelf life due to its lack of upgradability where as MP 7.1 can be upgraded to a certain extent, not sure what exactly but it's feasible.

When purchasing what is the minimum spec you would recommend, i.e what specs would worth spending the extra now as it would be harder to upgrade later, this of course would apply mainly to MP 7.1 vs MS which would be next to impossible to upgrade from what I've read.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

My first thought was what will the machine be used for...?

Thanks gents.

I should add, my primary use will be mostly Microsoft Office, Emails, Browsing, light photo/video editing and would like to run both MacOS and Windows

Then this told me that either machine is overkill for these tasks, and why Windows (because all the listed tasks can be handled on macOS), one would assume for gaming...?

I would go for a base M2 Pro Mac mini (upgrade to 32GB RAM & 1TB SSD) & a Xbox Series X (basically Windows gaming)...?

 

[chrfr]

Thanks gents.

I should add, my primary use will be mostly Microsoft Office, Emails, Browsing, light photo/video editing and would like to run both MacOS and Windows

For this light usage, if you really need to boot Windows just get a 2018 Mini, otherwise get an M1 or M2 mini. What you spend in attempting to futureproof a Mac Pro or Mac Studio can be spent later buying another new Mini, and you'll probably still spend less than you would for a Mac Pro or Studio today.

 

[AlexMaximus]

I am in the market for a 2nd hand  Desktop.

Looking to upgrade from my cMP (using Monterey [OC])

I am considering a MP 7.1 or a Mac Studio.

Of course Mac studio is considerably cheaper than a MP 7.1, however, it will have a shorter shelf life due to its lack of upgradability where as MP 7.1 can be upgraded to a certain extent, not sure what exactly but it's feasible.

When purchasing what is the minimum spec you would recommend, i.e what specs would worth spending the extra now as it would be harder to upgrade later, this of course would apply mainly to MP 7.1 vs MS which would be next to impossible to upgrade from what I've read.

Your input is greatly appreciated.

With your useage mentioned below, I would wait. Keep rocking that 5.1 till that new AS Mac Pro comes out and prices are slashed down for that 7.1. Then decide.

 

[th0masp]

Isn't the 7,1 - even just the base config - about double the power consumption in idle of e.g. the trashcan mac or just about any halfway modern desktop PC? Seems way overkill for light office work duty and for the secondary system. But then again I do live in Europe where we are paying through the nose for electricity so please excuse the bias.

For tasks like the ones the OP mentioned plus the Windows compatibility wouldn't an Intel Mini of the last generation be a better buy than a power hungry workstation? You can upgrade the memory on those even if not exactly via an officially endorsed procedure. Probably be saving a ton of money when acquiring such a machine - heck, you might even be able to buy a second one as a backup for less than the price of the cheesegrater de-luxe.

And you'd be stuck with those lovely custom SSDs with either system.

 

[avro707]

Isn't the 7,1 - even just the base config - about double the power consumption in idle of e.g. the trashcan mac or just about any halfway modern desktop PC? Seems way overkill for light office work duty and for the secondary system. But then again I do live in Europe where we are paying through the nose for electricity so please excuse the bias.

For tasks like the ones the OP mentioned plus the Windows compatibility wouldn't an Intel Mini of the last generation be a better buy than a power hungry workstation? You can upgrade the memory on those even if not exactly via an officially endorsed procedure. Probably be saving a ton of money when acquiring such a machine - heck, you might even be able to buy a second one as a backup for less than the price of the cheesegrater de-luxe.

And you'd be stuck with those lovely custom SSDs with either system.

If the 6,1 GPUs fail then it might be even more expensive to fix. The extra electricity costs of the 7,1 might be better because you can keep it going with off the shelf components that are fairly easy to get.

And it has the benefit of being able to run Ventura without any special needs. It’s just easier.

 

[th0masp]

If the 6,1 GPUs fail then it might be even more expensive to fix. The extra electricity costs of the 7,1 might be better because you can keep it going with off the shelf components that are fairly easy to get.

And it has the benefit of being able to run Ventura without any special needs. It’s just easier.

Sure but note that I recommended the Mini, not the Trashcan.

I checked the prices over here and you could buy yourself a whole bunch of spare Mini's to last you decades and still come out far less than one single 7,1 in base configuration. Or build a render farm with them.

 

[Dayo]

I am in the market for a 2nd hand  Desktop.

What specs would worth spending the extra now as it would be harder to upgrade later, this of course would apply mainly to MP 7.1 vs MS which would be next to impossible to upgrade from what I've read.

You have gotten all sorts of cold logical arguments but we both know you were fully aware of these before you posted and that your real question is: "I want the MP71 badly, please give me a story to sell to my missus on why I want to spend such a huge amount on a computer".

With this understanding, I would say you are on the right track. Just tell her the MP71 would last for ages compared to the other ones you would need to throw away in a very short time. You can also shed a few tears, a hidden slice of onion can help with this, and talk about the environment and safe guarding the planet for the kids etc if she is inclined to soften on that angle.

 

[Boil]

I checked the prices over here and you could buy yourself a whole bunch of spare Mini's to last you decades and still come out far less than one single 7,1 in base configuration. Or build a render farm with them.

For that scenario, I would go for M2 Pro Mac minis (12C/19G/32GB RAM/1TB SSD) with the 10GbE option...

You have gotten all sorts of cold logical arguments but we both know you were fully aware of these before you posted and that your real question is: "I want the MP71 badly, please give me a story to sell to my missus on why I want to spend such a huge amount on a computer".

The chassis itself has a certain appeal, even though there are elements I am not fond of; looking at you, handles & feet (wheels)...

With this understanding, I would say you are on the right track. Just tell her the MP71 would last for ages compared to the other ones you would need to throw away in a very short time. You can also shed a few tears, a hidden slice of onion can help with this, and talk about the environment and safe guarding the planet for the kids etc if she is inclined to soften on that angle.

As long as it is understood that "last for ages" actually means "until Apple stops issuing Security Updates"...?

 

[m1maverick]

Did Apple represent the Studio as having upgradable memory?

 

[Boil]

Did Apple represent the Studio as having upgradable memory?

All of the ASi Macs have upgradable RAM, as long as said upgrade is done within the ordering process...! ;^p

 

[salamanderjuice]

The 3090 comparison was also incredibly misleading:

Apple’s charts set the M1 Ultra up for an RTX 3090 fight it could never win

Better performance per watt doesn’t equal better overall performance.

www.theverge.com

 

[prefuse07]

HERE is another comparison -- the HIGHEST Spec'd Studio vs an RX-6800XT in my lowly 5,1

 

[ZombiePhysicist]

HERE is another comparison -- the HIGHEST Spec'd Studio vs an RX-6800XT in my lowly 5,1

That is crazy, that an ancient 5,1 Mac Pro with a 6800xt is 71% faster than the ultra in metal.

 

[avro707]

That is crazy, that an ancient 5,1 Mac Pro with a 6800xt is 71% faster than the ultra in metal.

That's benchmarks, versus benchmarketing.

My old Mac Pro with a 6600XT is also very decent in performance. It's just a single CPU 6 core.

 

[Allen_Wentz]

- I am in the market for a 2nd hand  Desktop.
- Looking to upgrade from my cMP (using Monterey [OC])
- ...shorter shelf life due to its lack of upgradability...

Your key points suggest to me that you are looking for a versatile desktop with shelf life. Specifying 2nd hand suggests that you want to minimize expenditure.

Shelf life is an interesting parameter, because over the years what causes a given box to age out to end-of-life (EOL) often varies: app software, OS software, RAM available, i/o competence, mass storage available, hardware failure, inadequate processing capability, etc. E.g. my 2016 MBP (bought in 2017, saving $1200) is now EOL due to 1) RAM limitation of 16 GB and 2) OS no longer upgradable above Monterey; not for any other reasons.

The fact that Apple now has M1 and M2 versions of Apple silicon under its belt with very good reviews suggests that folks interested in the Mac side should generally expect Intel Macs to approach EOL quickly now. Coming Mac OS versions will be optimizing for Apple SoC.

Looking at your stated usages the M2 Mac Mini Pro with 32 GB RAM jumps out as my recommendation, as long as you do not expect to drive more than three 4K displays and as long as you do not expect to need more than 32 GB RAM in the future. RAM demands will increase in the future.

An M1 Studio Max is also very good, and will likely be an even better value choice once M2 Studios become available; plus Studios do allow 64 GB RAM (at +$400 of course). The M1 Studio Ultra IMO will remain a poor value for most folks.

If Windows apps are particularly important you could consider an Intel Mini, but like I said above I expect Intel Macs to approach EOL quickly now that Mac SoC has proven itself to be excellent (at least at the MBP & Studio levels and below).

Whatever you get make sure that your SSD will remain no more than 50% filled to help optimize shelf life.

 

[MisterAndrew]

The 7,1 will remain useful much longer than an M1 Studio, even if it can't run a current macOS release. Apple will end macOS version updates for the M1 Studio in ~3 years after it's discontinued and there won't be anything you can do with it besides accept the security risks of using an old macOS version. The 7,1 will even remain useful longer than the upcoming M2 Ultra Mac Pro, which is already obsolete since M3 is almost here.

And the quick obsolescence is exactly what Apple wants you to accept. Fans of AS are pushing a misconception that AS Macs will be supported basically forever, and it's not true. Apple gets tighter control over Macs with AS and they will be able to obsolete hardware more quickly. They want to sell as many Macs as possible, as they should, but don't fool yourself into thinking an AS Mac purchase is long-term. Apple wants to sell you a new Mac every year like an iPhone.