I am undecided on what to buy, I have 3 options, the first is a Macbook Pro Retina A1708 Mid 2017 13.3 I5 8 Gb Ram 256 SSD, the second is a Macbook Pro 2015, 15 Core I7, 16 Ram 1 TB and the third is a Macbook Pro 2016 Retina 16 Gb Ram Core I5 Touchbar 250 SSD that you recommend
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I do not know which MBPro to buy
- Thread starter cristia29
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Do not buy the 2016 or 2017 MBP (or any 2016-2019 MBP)! They suffer from multiple unavoidable hardware faults that make them ticking timebombs.
The butterfly keyboard failure is the biggest, which is where keys on the keyboard start double-typing (lllliiiikkkeee thhhiiissss) and then die. The recall program only works for up to 4 years after the original purchase date, so both the 2016 and 2017 MBP are no longer covered. A replacement top case (keyboard is part of the top case) will cost upwards of $500, and that replacement will also fail, and the replacement for the replacement... Keyboard covers cannot be used as they can and will damage the display when the lid is closed due to clearance issues. Apple does not recommend their use either.
The butterfly keyboard fault is unavoidable and cannot be slowed down in any way.
The second major issue is Flexgate, which is where the main display ribbon cable tears under normal use, such as casually opening and closing the lid. This will cause sections of the display to start glitching and/or stop working. A replacement display will also most likely cost upwards of $500.
They are also other issues with this era of MBP, such as the bad battery life (compared to any Apple Silicon MacBook), overheating and loud fans.
If you can afford one, get a second-hand base M1 MacBook Air. Any Apple Silicon Mac is lightyears ahead of any Intel Mac and will be supported for years to come while all three options you have are already don't support the latest version of macOS, requiring a community patcher known as OCLP (OpenCore Legacy Patcher), and once Apple ditches all support for Intel Macs (which will be soon), you will be stuck on an outdated OS with no security updates and less support from apps unless you choose to run Linux instead.
If you have to pick one of the three you said, go for the 2015 15" MBP any day. While it is much older, they are extremely reliable (I'm still using mine which I got brand new from Apple back in the day).
The butterfly keyboard failure is the biggest, which is where keys on the keyboard start double-typing (lllliiiikkkeee thhhiiissss) and then die. The recall program only works for up to 4 years after the original purchase date, so both the 2016 and 2017 MBP are no longer covered. A replacement top case (keyboard is part of the top case) will cost upwards of $500, and that replacement will also fail, and the replacement for the replacement... Keyboard covers cannot be used as they can and will damage the display when the lid is closed due to clearance issues. Apple does not recommend their use either.
The butterfly keyboard fault is unavoidable and cannot be slowed down in any way.
The second major issue is Flexgate, which is where the main display ribbon cable tears under normal use, such as casually opening and closing the lid. This will cause sections of the display to start glitching and/or stop working. A replacement display will also most likely cost upwards of $500.
They are also other issues with this era of MBP, such as the bad battery life (compared to any Apple Silicon MacBook), overheating and loud fans.
If you can afford one, get a second-hand base M1 MacBook Air. Any Apple Silicon Mac is lightyears ahead of any Intel Mac and will be supported for years to come while all three options you have are already don't support the latest version of macOS, requiring a community patcher known as OCLP (OpenCore Legacy Patcher), and once Apple ditches all support for Intel Macs (which will be soon), you will be stuck on an outdated OS with no security updates and less support from apps unless you choose to run Linux instead.
If you have to pick one of the three you said, go for the 2015 15" MBP any day. While it is much older, they are extremely reliable (I'm still using mine which I got brand new from Apple back in the day).
You should verify this, but I'm pretty sure the 2017 MBP and the 2016 MBP both had the infamous "butterfly" keyboard that became quite problematical.
Right now I'm using a "MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)" which does not have the problem keyboard, and has been a great machine. So, if it were me, of the three I'd choose the 2015.
EDIT: @theMarble said it better and earlier! : )
Right now I'm using a "MacBook Pro (Retina, 13-inch, Early 2015)" which does not have the problem keyboard, and has been a great machine. So, if it were me, of the three I'd choose the 2015.
EDIT: @theMarble said it better and earlier! : )
They both have the butterfly keyboard, and as I mentioned above, they all fail.
100% agree with you! I'm still daily driving my 2015 15" which I got new from Apple, it has been upgraded with a 1TB NVMe SSD and is running Sonoma/Windows 10. I do plan to replace it very soon as it is getting very slow for the work I do on it, however it has held up well for its age.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
All 3 choices are too old and will soon be vintaged if some are not already. Vintage means it's over for software updates. Save your money and try to get well into the 7-year window typical of Apple vintaging. Right now, the oldest Mac to maybe consider is probably at least 2019 or 2020... though many believe Intel Macs are on the express train to be vintaged ASAP in favor or Silicon. If me, I wouldn't consider older than M1 Macs at this point if I had to buy Apple. And "had" is key here...
If this is about price/budget, you might want to put the money you would spend on those towards a PC laptop, where robust competition for all parts like RAM & Storage will deliver much more computer for the same money. Microsoft- unlike Apple- seems to support older tech for much longer than Apple... which can be interpreted as good or bad... but in your apparent case, would be good for you.
While Apple people will sling a thousand arrows against PC/Window considerations, the vast bulk of the world runs just fine on Windows PCs. We Apple people are the oddballs living within a relatively expensive & small bubble, opting for slower PPW over raw power, a smaller pool of software apps, and no way to evolve our internal hardware without throwing out the whole machine and buying a replacement. Pretty much everything we can do on our computers can be done on PCs too... and PC offers a ton of apps & compatibilities NOT available to us Apple people.
I'm an Apple everything guy myself but if RAM & SSD pricing doesn't become more competitive by the time my existing MB needs to be replaced, I may go PC for my next laptop. I recently purchased a gaming PC to replace the loss of "bootcamp" via Apple going Silicon (No, ARM Windows emulation is not full Windows) and the whole PC cost less than Apple charges for only the 8TB SSD upgrade option in any Mac. That PC has 10TBs of SSD and 32GB of RAM.
If this is about price/budget, you might want to put the money you would spend on those towards a PC laptop, where robust competition for all parts like RAM & Storage will deliver much more computer for the same money. Microsoft- unlike Apple- seems to support older tech for much longer than Apple... which can be interpreted as good or bad... but in your apparent case, would be good for you.
While Apple people will sling a thousand arrows against PC/Window considerations, the vast bulk of the world runs just fine on Windows PCs. We Apple people are the oddballs living within a relatively expensive & small bubble, opting for slower PPW over raw power, a smaller pool of software apps, and no way to evolve our internal hardware without throwing out the whole machine and buying a replacement. Pretty much everything we can do on our computers can be done on PCs too... and PC offers a ton of apps & compatibilities NOT available to us Apple people.
I'm an Apple everything guy myself but if RAM & SSD pricing doesn't become more competitive by the time my existing MB needs to be replaced, I may go PC for my next laptop. I recently purchased a gaming PC to replace the loss of "bootcamp" via Apple going Silicon (No, ARM Windows emulation is not full Windows) and the whole PC cost less than Apple charges for only the 8TB SSD upgrade option in any Mac. That PC has 10TBs of SSD and 32GB of RAM.
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Fishrrman's rules for used MacBook buying:
DO NOT BUY:
MacBook Pro 13" -- 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
MacBook Pro 15" -- 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
ALL of these have the disastrous "butterfly keyboards" that are highly-prone to failure. Although Apple has a free replacement program running for 4 years "from new", when that time expires YOU will pay for the repair.
And it's NOT CHEAP -- $750 for even a single key gone bad.
That's because the entire top case has to be replaced... even for a single key failure!
DO BUY:
MacBook Pro 13" -- 2020
MacBook Pro 16" -- 2019 and later.
These have the new "magic" (scissors) keyboards, as did the 2015 and earlier MBPs. These keyboards have been very reliable.
Also:
MacBook Pro 14" or 16" -- 2021
DO NOT BUY:
MacBook Pro 13" -- 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
MacBook Pro 15" -- 2016, 2017, 2018, 2019
ALL of these have the disastrous "butterfly keyboards" that are highly-prone to failure. Although Apple has a free replacement program running for 4 years "from new", when that time expires YOU will pay for the repair.
And it's NOT CHEAP -- $750 for even a single key gone bad.
That's because the entire top case has to be replaced... even for a single key failure!
DO BUY:
MacBook Pro 13" -- 2020
MacBook Pro 16" -- 2019 and later.
These have the new "magic" (scissors) keyboards, as did the 2015 and earlier MBPs. These keyboards have been very reliable.
Also:
MacBook Pro 14" or 16" -- 2021
Very few scenarios where those would be money well spent. I agree with consensus so far, that the i7 is the best option, (back in the day, i5 vs i7 really made a real difference). However, the hardware would have to look pristine, test 100% (battery notwithstanding), and prices in the low, low hundreds. Also, 2015 is a stretch OS-wise, and you'll have to compensate for any unpatched security vulnerabilities manually.
The bubble is smaller than the Windows balloon, for sure.
But I've priced equipment from Dell and HP (and a few others) recently, in my shopping for a new computer. They are in some cases more expensive than Apple for hardware that is not necessarily better and in various regards not as good.
The way to save money is to assemble one's own system from sub-units. But few people do that, and even those who have in the past (such as myself) may not want to do it anymore. I certainly don't.
Thank you for all the recommendations; I haven't made a purchase yet, and I'm taking your suggestions into account. I tried watching reviews on YouTube, but they all seem to be praising the devices, and it seemed too good to be true, especially considering the butterfly keyboard. Regarding where I'll make the purchase, I'm still searching on Amazon.
I'm from Mexico and have a budget of 11,000 Mexican pesos, which is equivalent to 624.08 dollars. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the MacBook Air M1 as it exceeds my budget. Regarding the MacBook Pro 2015, I couldn't purchase it because it's no longer available.
I'm from Mexico and have a budget of 11,000 Mexican pesos, which is equivalent to 624.08 dollars. Unfortunately, I can't afford to buy the MacBook Air M1 as it exceeds my budget. Regarding the MacBook Pro 2015, I couldn't purchase it because it's no longer available.
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How much would a refurbished M1 MBA from Apple cost?
Even if it requires saving a bit more, it would be well worth it to buy an M-series laptop. Note also that it comes with a full 1-year warranty, which those old models will not. That offers you protection and is reassuring as the quality will be guaranteed and backed by Apple.
There's an old expression, “Penny wise, pound foolish”, meaning that saving a little upfront may seem attractive or look smart, but it often proves costly in the long run.
Note also that you will be getting a lot more for your money by buying a recent laptop.
Even if it requires saving a bit more, it would be well worth it to buy an M-series laptop. Note also that it comes with a full 1-year warranty, which those old models will not. That offers you protection and is reassuring as the quality will be guaranteed and backed by Apple.
There's an old expression, “Penny wise, pound foolish”, meaning that saving a little upfront may seem attractive or look smart, but it often proves costly in the long run.
Note also that you will be getting a lot more for your money by buying a recent laptop.
HobeSoundDarryl
macrumors G5
With that budget, I strongly suggest PC. You can get a pretty good (NEW) PC that will do all computing chores well. Apple people can't hardly consider such an option but $600 will buy a LOT of PC where key parts like RAM and SSD have much competition driving DOWN costs. Here's a starter list of 5 under $600 that this source rates highly. A little online "shopping around" would probably find many other possibilities.
If you already have a monitor + keyboard + mouse, new (but refurbised or education) Mac Mini seems best Apple option.
With that budget, a much recommended RAM upgrade from base specs will eat a third of the budget at Apple's relatively sky-high pricing ($200). The same in a PC will be under $50. Similarly, get enough SSD to be comfortably "future proofed" for Mac and it can eat up to 2/3rds of the budget for SSD alone ($400)... while 1TB SSD retail for PC can also be had for < $50 or double that for about $40 more (< 25% of what Apple charges)
Put both common upgrades together and only the 16GB RAM upgrade and the 1TB SSD upgrade will need ALL of your budget from Apple... vs. about $100 for a PC, so you can have $500 left over to buy the rest of the computer. Compare to- say- the first option in the 5 laptop PCs list and that one comes with 36GB of RAM + 1TB SSD, 15" screen and 8 hours of battery life for UNDER your budget. OR come up with $25 more to double the SSD to 2TB vs. Apple's 2TB upgrade price at $800 (for ONLY the 2TB SSD upgrade- not the computer).
Will a Windows PC be BETTER than a macOS Mac? Clearly, Apple fans will have a very passionate opinion about that. But if $625 is your budget MAX and you need a good computer now, a bunch of total stranger's passions can't do anything for you. Use it towards the best computer you can get... which just happens to NOT be an Apple computer (unless perhaps a Mini if you already have a monitor + keyboard + mouse and don't need more than base specs RAM & SSD).
If me, I would NOT buy ancient USED Macs, already vintaged or about to be vintaged. macOS will leave the computer behind- if not already. Some software will just fail to work right and other software unable to update to newer versions won't be able to open any collaborative files created on someone else's newer Mac or iDevice. It's basically OVER for those old ones. Yes, they can still function and do some things but Apple themselves have opted to leave them behind. That will only get worse in the future as they get further behind.
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Who knows what is best for you until you say what you will be doing? What are you doing? Some tasks require screen space and not much else. Software development is like that, I need lots of text windows open, and so I can't work on a 13" screen. Other things like music and video production need more storage space than 256 GB and the 1TB SSD is a much better option.
Fewer things than you think need a fast CPU.
If everything else is equal a 2017 mac will be supported two years longer than a 2015 Mac.
In the end, you might be best with a discounted M1 base model. It will be MUCH faster and will be supported longer.
Hello everyone, I want to express my gratitude to all who advised me. In the end, I decided to wait a bit, as suggested. The "Buen Fin" (Good Weekend) has started here in Mexico, and I was able to purchase a MacBook Air M1. I appreciate all your advice and hope you have a great day. Thank you.
I think you made good decision. I would do same.
Good choice, that way you will be able to enjoy software updates for a few more years. The air M1 is a brilliant machine.