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panjandrum

macrumors 6502a
Original poster
Sep 22, 2009
731
914
United States
I'm in charge of a seemingly ever-growing fleet of (now 150) Macs in the K-8 education environment, and there is absolutely no doubt that I've seen substantial upticks in stability issues on all the systems we upgraded to Catalina for testing purposes (thankfully very few). In terms of Big Sur I only have that on 22 new M1 MacBook Airs and those have been an absolute PITA to roll out, with extensive and very nasty problems; from the inability to erase the internal storage without having a second computer running Apple Configurator 2 to completely random Migration Assistant errors. IMHO both Big Sur and Catalina were definitely not ready for prime-time at time of release, and Catalina may be unsuited even NOW, after the development cycle is supposedly over. Hopefully Big Sur ends up being better.

But in keeping with this thread's topic: My biggest concern about Big Sur cements and reinforces the concern I've had for many years now; Apple has gone from a deep understanding of how to build some of the best UIs, to consistently displaying that they have nobody working for them that understands good UI design at all. Note, I am not talking about how "pretty" a UI is, that's subjective and everyone is welcome to like something different in terms of what they think 'looks nice.' I'm talking about usability. Bugs and instability can be fixed, but if a company has fundamentally no idea how to build a good UI, you may be long-term screwed. Just look at Windows over the years; when it has been good it's obviously been purely down to luck, because they immediately screw it all up again with the next release - they have nobody that really understands what they are doing and therefore about half of the time Windows rolls out with a crap UI. So yes, in many ways I too hate Big Sur. I spend easily 50% of my professional life tutoring and teaching users how to use computers, from the very young to the elderly, and I can absolutely guarantee that Big Sur is going to be a disaster for many users. The problem is that these things are key for intuitive and easy use of a computer: 1) UI elements must be CLEARLY LEGIBLE and EASY TO DISTINGUISH. 2) Elements you access repeatedly should move around the screen AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE (this is one to of the key differences that makes the MacOS Menu Bar so much better than the way Windows handles it). 3) Critical elements must be EASY TO SEE AND FIND. 4) Active windows and elements must be CLEARLY DISTINGUISHED from inactive windows and elements. If we go back to Snow Leopard, which I would suggest could be held-up as a pinnacle of MacOS UI design, all four of these (assuming you turn dock magnification off) are spot-on perfect. SL (among other revisions of the MacOS) nailed all 4 of these principles. Big Sur fails everything except point 2, and it fails them *spectacularly* well.
 
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applCore

macrumors regular
May 3, 2011
193
78
Overall Big Sur is horrible, yes. I have put it on several clients' systems so far (not risking mine yet 🙃) and each one has been unhappy. Generally people are getting very upset with Apple and even talking about shifting back to Microsoft. It's really been a disappointing time with Apple.
 

colourfastt

macrumors 65816
Apr 7, 2009
1,047
964
Is it really such an issue to not update when you need to use your computer, and then just do something else while it's updating. It's not like we had full-featured smartphones to mess with on back when OS X updates were smaller. Even still I would just watch TV or do some other thing while it was happening. and back in 2007 the updates may have been smaller, but my internet was much slower so downloading updates still took a long time.
Even back in 2008, I had 100M internet. I found the old method of updating more preferable. Now I have to waste 30+ minutes because a Safari update is multiple Gigs and renders my computer useless during the update. As another thought, why, exactly, is a browser update multiple Gigs and seemingly updating the entire OS that requires a (multiple?) reboot? I can update Chrome or Firefox and all that's required is restarting the app.
 
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darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,355
10,106
Atlanta, GA
Even back in 2008, I had 100M internet. I found the old method of updating more preferable. Now I have to waste 30+ minutes because a Safari update is multiple Gigs and renders my computer useless during the update. As another thought, why, exactly, is a browser update multiple Gigs and seemingly updating the entire OS that requires a (multiple?) reboot? I can update Chrome or Firefox and all that's required is restarting the app.

The last Safari browser updates were around 70MB.

But a better question is why you are updating your computer when you need to use it? Thats like complaining about not being able to use your computer because you decided to watch a full screen movie on it.
 

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stevenaaus

macrumors member
Oct 23, 2013
61
41
to consistently displaying that they have nobody working for them that understands good UI design at all.
Maybe GUI devs have the most common sense and have all jumped ship ;)
The problem is that these things are key for intuitive and easy use of a computer: 1) UI elements must be CLEARLY LEGIBLE and EASY TO DISTINGUISH
Agree :). Apple's (and Google's) phone success/fixation - where it is substantially harder to make a good UI, has totally rewritten the handbook, and they are serving up 'pretty' crap right across the board.
 

mdmpress

macrumors newbie
May 24, 2013
3
2
Big Sur is the worse OS yet!
Notification Centre is too static..
You can't use 3rd party widgets..
For calendar I can't select the month or year..
System keeps crashing very often..
I don't care about stupid memojis..
Useless features..give me back my widgets!
I don't see what's the benefit of the upgrade..
Add me to the list of users who HATE Big Sur. All the careful organization of my home screen, Finder windows, folder prioritization, etc. is completely screwed up. I do not want to be bothered with a "cloud" I don't understand or trust, yet suddenly important folders and documents have disappeared from my computer and seem to be somewhere in outer space. I still back up onto external hard drives so that when Apple does another number on all my hard work, I will be able to find the things I need. I think. Can't I just declare that the organizational setup I have designed takes priority over all of Apple's bells and whistles, the vast majority of which I have no use for?
 

darngooddesign

macrumors P6
Jul 4, 2007
18,355
10,106
Atlanta, GA
Add me to the list of users who HATE Big Sur. All the careful organization of my home screen, Finder windows, folder prioritization, etc. is completely screwed up. I do not want to be bothered with a "cloud" I don't understand or trust, yet suddenly important folders and documents have disappeared from my computer and seem to be somewhere in outer space. I still back up onto external hard drives so that when Apple does another number on all my hard work, I will be able to find the things I need. I think. Can't I just declare that the organizational setup I have designed takes priority over all of Apple's bells and whistles, the vast majority of which I have no use for?
So turn off the iCloud Drive syncing you don't want and just move your documents back so they are locally stored.

Easy peasy.
 
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