I need help. tech question.

[TomKing]

I tried tagging this on to a similar post to save repeat threads, but unfortunately got no response... so here it is again.

I have a couple of big projects coming up this year, and I am going to need a machine to edit with.

Im using logic and several plug-ins. Occasionally deals with RAW video footage, but not to edt, just to view.

So here's my question... (like i said its pretty techy)

Realistically I cant wait until Q1 2012 for the new sandy bridge processors, plus my budget only really stretches to the base model mac pro.

(Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I am aware that it works out more cost effective to go for the duel processor models, and really i should be looking at the hex. but thats where my budget sits)

Now I'll be dropping an SSD in as the boot drive, as that seems essential at the moment. but obviously the base model only has 4 dimm slots, and only 3GB of RAM.

So I've been looking at going second hand, 2008/9 8core, 16GB RAM similar prices to new base model.

I dont need anyone to list the hardware differences, because I know them, but what i could do with is, is someone with real world experience or using Logic with mac pros, and knowing the difference between 667MHz DDR2 and 1066MHz DDR3.

That said, I understand the data transfer rates between the two, and the CAS timings, and fact that one is 2 and the other 3 channel.

What I really need to know, is how this will effect my plugins, and also the performance of logic.

ie, should i stick to the new mac and upgrade that (eventually). or go for a second hand one with slower but more RAM.

I look forward to your replies.

 

[Transporteur]

I dont need anyone to list the hardware differences, because I know them, but what i could do with is, is someone with real world experience or using Logic with mac pros, and knowing the difference between 667MHz DDR2 and 1066MHz DDR3.

That said, I understand the data transfer rates between the two, and the CAS timings, and fact that one is 2 and the other 3 channel.

What I really need to know, is how this will effect my plugins, and also the performance of logic.

RAM is the one component that is more or less completely neglectable these days. Before you even max out DDR2 RAM, you'll run into non-volatile storage IO and CPU limitations.

Except for some really specific scientific applications, I've yet to see any application that considerably benefits from faster RAM.

That being said, the 2010 base Pro is a really good machine. I'd say go for it. You SSD sounds good (definitely go for it), and the RAM shouldn't be a problem. DDR3 RAM is dirt cheap these days (something you can't say about DDR2!) and if your budget doesn't allow more RAM, go with 2GB sticks and max it out (8GB in total).
Once you get more funds, simply upgrade the processor to a hex core (the upgrade now is about $500 and is going to be a little cheaper in a year or so) and get more RAM.

 

[chrismacguy]

I tried tagging this on to a similar post to save repeat threads, but unfortunately got no response... so here it is again.

I have a couple of big projects coming up this year, and I am going to need a machine to edit with.

Im using logic and several plug-ins. Occasionally deals with RAW video footage, but not to edt, just to view.

So here's my question... (like i said its pretty techy)

Realistically I cant wait until Q1 2012 for the new sandy bridge processors, plus my budget only really stretches to the base model mac pro.

(Now before everyone jumps down my throat, I am aware that it works out more cost effective to go for the duel processor models, and really i should be looking at the hex. but thats where my budget sits)

Now I'll be dropping an SSD in as the boot drive, as that seems essential at the moment. but obviously the base model only has 4 dimm slots, and only 3GB of RAM.

So I've been looking at going second hand, 2008/9 8core, 16GB RAM similar prices to new base model.

I dont need anyone to list the hardware differences, because I know them, but what i could do with is, is someone with real world experience or using Logic with mac pros, and knowing the difference between 667MHz DDR2 and 1066MHz DDR3.

That said, I understand the data transfer rates between the two, and the CAS timings, and fact that one is 2 and the other 3 channel.

What I really need to know, is how this will effect my plugins, and also the performance of logic.

ie, should i stick to the new mac and upgrade that (eventually). or go for a second hand one with slower but more RAM.

I look forward to your replies.

Either of those 2 options will be fantastic for your work. (I use Final Cut Studio and Logic Studio on my 2010 Quad, and they both run absolutely flawlessly, even if I have FCP, Logic Pro, STP, ProTools and Motion all up). Personally Id go with a new Mac Pro and upgrade it over time just because you never know what kindve torture a second hand machine has had.

The RAM should make absolutely no difference, as I get all of my work done on my 2010 at home, and use a 2009 8-Core regularly in a edit suite, and they both handle approx 10 plugins with aplomb (I haven't had reason to go higher as Im mainly a video editor, but there is a oodles of power in both for just about anything).

 

[TomKing]

Thank you for fast reply. My other issue is that that base model has only 4dimm modules, but then 16GB (4x4GB) should be plenty.

Ok heres the other issue, really what am i paying for between the 2009 base mac pro and 2010 base mac pro. Because i've been looking at 2009 mac pros and then throwing the 3.2Ghz Xeon in to it.....

I dunno, I'm kinda the same as thinking buying the newest is best, then upgrading it as funds allow. But I keep looking at the second hand macs seeing what i'll get for my money. and thinking do i really need to upgrade much past that.

 

[philipma1957]

Ok heres the other issue, really what am i paying for between the 2009 base mac pro and 2010 base mac pro. Because i've been looking at 2009 mac pros and then throwing the 3.2Ghz Xeon in to it.....

I dunno, I'm kinda the same as thinking buying the newest is best, then upgrading it as funds allow. But I keep looking at the second hand macs seeing what i'll get for my money. and thinking do i really need to upgrade much past that.

1)the 2009 is not a simple drop in upgrade to the hex 3.2ghz
2) the 2009 does not have built in air port extreme.
3) the 2010 can be found new for 2350 with no tax and free shipping


http://www.jr.com/apple/pe/APP_MC560LL_SL_A/ just don't live in NY (sales tax)


plus if you have discover card it is 5% off so 2232 new with 1 yr warranty.

so if you buy this and pay 2232 then add this


http://www.superbiiz.com/detail.php...B-ECC-Server-Memory-For-Apple-Mac-Pro-Systems 50 a stick 4 sticks

bunny15 gets you a discount of 15 bucks


you are at 2432. for a base quad 2.8 2010 with 16gb ram... then one day you can put this in


http://cgi.ebay.com/NEW-Intel-Xeon-...EN_Servers&hash=item230e914a2e#ht_2969wt_1189

it will give you a 60 percent boost in speed

 

[TomKing]

Ahhh i've missed some important facts out. I'm from the UK, and my girlfriend is currently a student... so if i do buy the quad base pro, I will be getting it for around £1800.

I think it may be a new one, just because i like new stuff. But £1800 could buy me a 2nd hand 2009 with 16GB already installed... I dont know. I think when the pay check drops I will have to see what happens.

From what i can see here, the difference in power for me isnt going to great, at least i dont think i'll ever see it. and being able to drop the hex 3.2 in... well that might of just sold me. at least i know as its getting older that chip will be getting cheaper...

 

[chrismacguy]

Ahhh i've missed some important facts out. I'm from the UK, and my girlfriend is currently a student... so if i do buy the quad base pro, I will be getting it for around £1800.

I think it may be a new one, just because i like new stuff. But £1800 could buy me a 2nd hand 2009 with 16GB already installed... I dont know. I think when the pay check drops I will have to see what happens.

From what i can see here, the difference in power for me isnt going to great, at least i dont think i'll ever see it. and being able to drop the hex 3.2 in... well that might of just sold me. at least i know as its getting older that chip will be getting cheaper...

I'd check to see if your girlfriends institution has a HE Agreement (My Uni does, so I got my Quad Mac Pro for just over £1700, and a 27" Cinema for £650 - this was before the VAT increase), to see if you can get more than the standard Education discount. Also, the ability to drop in a hex is what swayed me from a used 2009 Quad as well

 

[philipma1957]

Ahhh i've missed some important facts out. I'm from the UK...
From what i can see here, the difference in power for me isnt going to great, at least i dont think i'll ever see it. and being able to drop the hex 3.2 in... well that might of just sold me. at least i know as its getting older that chip will be getting cheaper...

here is the hex 3.2 install thread


https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1122551/

the chip will drop in price making the base quad 2.8 a better buy

 

[TomKing]

Ahhh phillip just read through your post. fantastic build guide, haha, i could never be bothered with all that stopping and starting.

I think this is what im going to do, but only 16GB of RAM.

One more question tho, if the hex supports 1333, does that mean the pro will use it? i had the impression the clock speed was set by the board?

 

[philipma1957]

no it runs at 1066 but it will use 32gb ram . in your case it will run the 16gb ram at 1066.


if you look around and can find some 1066GHz 4gb ram you will see it has a cl of 7 and the 1333 GHz ram has a cl of 9. sooo even though you lose a bit on the 1066 you gain some on the cl 7 .
lower the cl the faster.
higher the GHz the faster

here is a 1066 stick with CL 7

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...m_re=crucial_ddr3_1066-_-20-148-440-_-Product


here is a 1333 stick with CL9


http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...=crucial_4gb_ddr3_1333-_-20-148-382-_-Product

so in the case of having a 3.2 hex in it which supports 1066GHz and down clocks 1333GHz to 1066GHz the 1066GHz is faster due to a better CL number.

In the case of the 3.33 hex even though it will run the 1333GH/z at 1333GH/z it is not a lot quicker on ram tests the if you run the 1066GH/z.


I was surprised that the 3.2GH/z supported 32gb ram My machine has 32gb ram and it accesses all of it during ram tests. this was better then I hoped for.

 

[TomKing]

So, this *may* be moving away from the point now.

but what exactly do you use that kind of power for? I can only think video editing, or FX or similar.


P.s. thank you for the advice. it has been noted and is being acted upon.

 

[philipma1957]

So, this *may* be moving away from the point now.

but what exactly do you use that kind of power for? I can only think video editing, or FX or similar.


P.s. thank you for the advice. it has been noted and is being acted upon.

Yeah video or large photo library both come to mind.

I don't use it or need it the base 2.8 quad with 12gb ram is good enough for me. But I have upgraded audio gear and now computer gear since the 70's.

Sooo I have a lot of people that want more for less and they know I have been doing that for years. I most likely will make a few quad 2.8's into these boosted hex 3.2's for a few people I have upgraded gear for. This is one of the few apple pieces of gear (2010 quad 2.8) that has such a nice easy upgrade path. It is fun when one pops up like this.

I can build a hex 3.2 with the oem 1tb hdd 3 western digital 3tb hdds and 32gb ram for under 3500. that is a real value to a few people I know that can't be bothered to do the work. (a new machine on sale at jr.com would be the base quad 2.8 that I used to make this pricing up.)

Apple's 3.33 cost me about 4800 to setup with 32gb ram the oem hdd and 3 western digital 3tb hdds. ( a refurb from apple online is the machine used for this pricing. )


end result the 3.2 is about 70 percent the cost of the 3.33 and it does the work at 95 percent of the speed. There are people that want a deal like this, Quite a few modded machines popped up on ebay after I posted the build.

I did not mind sharing the build on this site because they have helped me learn about this machine.

 

[jetjaguar]

Not to hijack your thread but I am selling my mbp and gonna pick up a mac pro and I couldn't decide between sp or dp ... I think this thread is gonna make me pull the trigger on a base quad. Then I will go to a hex down the road. Shoud be fine for everything I need to do with video editing for the next year or so with school and side projects.