I want a 12"MB, not the new MBA

[kutxitril]

I know about all things new MBA does better than current 12"MB but....

Let's be fair: New MBA cannot compete with
- 2 pounds of weight
- fanless
- 0.14 to 0.5 inch thin

I see the new MBA and I still prefer the 12"MB.
I have a wide budget so my purchase would be top high-end with i7 cpu, 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD.

My question is:
Should I buy it or should I wait for 2019?
2019 meaning:
- New CPU (ARM?)
- 3rd gen keyboard
- Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) port
- 1TB SSD?


Don't try to convince me to go for new MBA ;-)

 

[muratura]

It's a hard choice man, I'm in the same boat as you.
The standard answer is buy it now if you need it. For work for example. If you do not need it now then wait to see what comes out.

I wouldn't diss the new MBA yet. We should wait for reviews on it to see what it is really capable of. The 13" screen is better for media consumption than 12" and the extra TB3 port is also nice.

What laptop do you have at the moment?

 

[deuxani]

Just one note... the new Air is fanless.

EDIT: so it seems it's not fanless, but uses the fanless architecture but with a fan when it goes in turbo mode. So it will be fanless most of the time

 

[kutxitril]

It's a hard choice man, I'm in the same boat as you.
The standard answer is buy it now if you need it. For work for example. If you do not need it now then wait to see what comes out.

I wouldn't diss the new MBA yet. We should wait for reviews on it to see what it is really capable of. The 13" screen is better for media consumption than 12" and the extra TB3 port is also nice.

What laptop do you have at the moment?

haha, you'll be shocked: Early 2011 Macbook Pro 15". I've been using this old guy for work and leisure 24/7 for the last 7.5 years, updating RAM (16gb), SSD (1TB) and battery. But now it's just too much. Keyboard, sleep mode and wifi card failing. And it is super thicker and heavy compared to what we see nowadays. So yes, I need it! And I am just in love with 12" MB, and I don't need heavy power for my job. Also because I don't consume media with my notebook, I do it with a Mini connected to a TV. Fair point for the extra TB3 (actually current MB USBC port is not TB3).
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Just one note... the new Air is fanless.

EDIT: so it seems it's not fanless, but uses the fanless architecture but with a fan when it goes in turbo mode. So it will be fanless most of the time

It is not.
Where did you see that the fan will be only used in turbo mode?

 

[deuxani]

It is not.
Where did you see that the fan will be only used in turbo mode?

That's the entire idea of fanless architecture, isn't it? It doesn't need a fan and doesn't get hot under normal load. Only under high load for a longer time it will get hot and without fan would throttle down again. The fan will make sure you can continue at high speed for a prolonged period.

 

[kutxitril]

That's the entire idea of fanless architecture, isn't it? It doesn't need a fan and doesn't get hot under normal load. Only under high load for a longer time it will get hot and without fan would throttle down again. The fan will make sure you can continue at high speed for a prolonged period.

hahaha come on, like happens as well with macbook pro and all others.

So the question is: could I find the quietness and silence I have with 12”MB if I use the new MBA (regardless the load)? And I’m afraid the answer is no.

 

[deuxani]

hahaha come on, like happens as well with macbook pro and all others.

So the question is: could I find the quietness and silence I have with 12”MB if I use the new MBA (regardless the load)? And I’m afraid the answer is no.

Well, to be honest, we don't know This is something very new and different, right? Normally you would get either a 15W CPU with fan (I hear my wife's 15" MacBook Pro taking off sometimes) or a 5W without fan (obviously my 12" MacBook doesn't make a sounds, just like the iPad or iPhone). This 7W hybrid is still a mystery, but to me it makes sense what I described. The fan would only make a sound under prolonged high load, that's my theory

 

[noobinator]

I don't see it as a bad thing that they didn't update the MB yesterday. I think I'll be able to score quite a deal on the 12" MB now. Hope for a $999 sale. I do need/want the fan-less most portable model.

 

[Sodium Chloride]

Any chance that we are going to see a silent update for 12" MB before the end of the year?

 

[leftyMac]

Any chance that we are going to see a silent update for 12" MB before the end of the year?

it makes sense to drop the price, if not updating the CPU. I love my 12" MB, but if I were to buy a laptop today, I'd be tempted to at least consider the new MBA for the price / performance value. I'd probably still pick the MB though.

 

[CPL593H]

I was in the same boat. Ordered the MBA in the end because I needed a new laptop, and I couldn't buy 7th gen chips and 2nd gen butterfly.

If a new 12 inch come out next year I'll have some thinking to do, but I'm just glad to ditch my heavy and old 15 inch HP!

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

12" MacBook owner and fan here! Certainly, it's due for a redesign next year BUT any idea when ARM will be coming to Macs?
MAYBE that is why the Mac Pro is taking so long - maybe that'll have a super bionic ARM chip in it OR a new 12" MacBook will have it.
Also, maybe next year we'll see Face I.D. in Macs! After the convenience of it in my X, i'd love it Touch I.D. never worked very well for me on the SE.

 

[CPL593H]

12" MacBook owner and fan here! Certainly, it's due for a redesign next year BUT any idea when ARM will be coming to Macs?
MAYBE that is why the Mac Pro is taking so long - maybe that'll have a super bionic ARM chip in it OR a new 12" MacBook will have it.
Also, maybe next year we'll see Face I.D. in Macs! After the convenience of it in my X, i'd love it Touch I.D. never worked very well for me on the SE.

I think the MB will be the test bed device and with the size and new tech (assuming) they'll maintain the slight price premium. First for ARM, and FaceID to the non-iOS devices? That's my guess.

 

[BODYBUILDERPAUL]

I think the MB will be the test bed device and with the size and new tech (assuming) they'll maintain the slight price premium. First for ARM, and FaceID to the non-iOS devices? That's my guess.

ABSOLUTELY and right now, i'm thinking this is not the time for me to buy a new Mac. I'd like a 13" TB MacBook Pro with 1TB SSD - that's £2500 with the 16GB RAM BUT here's the deal, imagine if Apple launch ARM in a years time or less? Look at how amazing A10X is in my Apple TV, A11 Bionic is incredible in my iPhone X and now A12X in iPad Pro. Imagine how incredible Apple can make future Macs!!!

A MacBook with ARM, Face I.D. and T2 security WOW WOW WOW!!! (And a 1TB option please and a TB option for my Final Cut Pro X editing daily)

 

[HardBall]

hahaha come on, like happens as well with macbook pro and all others.

So the question is: could I find the quietness and silence I have with 12”MB if I use the new MBA (regardless the load)? And I’m afraid the answer is no.

Probably not, since it doesn't seem to be fanless according to the keynote itself. The TB MBPs usually have pretty quiet sound profile, but can still definitely rev up when under load. Every time when I need to go to my 15" from my 12", I can definitely notice the noise, it's just hard to let go once you are used to a fanless design, and the heat on the 12" is minimal for most workloads, not so much with the larger machines.

 

[Florida Gator]

I think the MB will be the test bed device and with the size and new tech (assuming) they'll maintain the slight price premium. First for ARM, and FaceID to the non-iOS devices? That's my guess.

I think if you asked Apple for an ultra-portable ARM device with FaceID, they'd tell you to get an iPad Pro with smart keyboard. They're not wasting their best hardware on the Mac platform, especially for a niche product like the 12" MacBook.

 

[HardBall]

I think if you asked Apple for an ultra-portable ARM device with FaceID, they'd tell you to get an iPad Pro with smart keyboard. They're not wasting their best hardware on the Mac platform, especially for a niche product like the 12" MacBook.

Nah, iPad is rather a niche product for content creation, only very specific workflows work well there. Tablets are great for consumption of media, outside of that, it's pretty much all hit or miss (miss most of the time per application) in terms of usefulness. Large phones are actually much better if you want something that does almost everything that a tablet does, that's kind of why there is now the XS Max, they are just far more portable, and can be used in a far larger set of scenarios. Soon, I can see that Apple would come out with a 7" phone which should rival the size of early tablets.

An ARM ISA based 12" MB would be a god-send for a lot of people that do not need heavy compute for their machines, or as a secondary machine used on the go. It just makes more more sense for 80% of the people that either a massive 13.3 " laptop or a device limited to mobile applications.

 

[Falhófnir]

Where did you see that the fan will be only used in turbo mode?

with the 15 inch MacBook pros, the fans are always on at low RPM, with the Air 2015 they kick in and out with usage, so I think it's a reasonable assumption you'll probably have to put a reasonable amount of load on this machine to get the fans to kick in.

As regards a 2017 or 2019 MacBook, if you need the machine now, get it now, if you can afford to wait, then do so. It's unclear whether the next update will be a design refresh, and/or switch to ARM CPUs, or just a chip bump (though given the non update at the last event, it does seem a little suspicious).

 

[Florida Gator]

Nah, iPad is rather a niche product for content creation, only very specific workflows work well there. Tablets are great for consumption of media, outside of that, it's pretty much all hit or miss (miss most of the time per application) in terms of usefulness.

I agree with you, but I'm not sure Apple does.

 

[HardBall]

I agree with you, but I'm not sure Apple does.

I'm sure they see the writing on the wall.

As I said, we are in somewhat of a transition period anyways, where the tablet formfactor is still somewhat useful as primarily consumption devices. But the foldable display smartphones are coming, and likely will be debuting on the market sometime early next year.

You are talking about a 5" phone that can fold out to be about 7.4" diagonal, or a 6.5" that folds out to be over 9". There just won't be much that limits this formfactor of phones compared to legacy tablets.

And once that new formfactor matures, that will likely spell the end of significant footprint of dedicated tablets on the market, in the next 2-4 years. Why would you carry two devices where one actually can do both by transforming, as long as the build is sufficiently reliable, which will come with time. Dedicated tablets are really in their last several years of usefulness, in a category as a whole, it simply does not have enough (if anything at all) to distinguish itself from the functionality that will be emcompassed by foldable phones.

 

[bambooshots]

I know about all things new MBA does better than current 12"MB but....

Let's be fair: New MBA cannot compete with
- 2 pounds of weight
- fanless
- 0.14 to 0.5 inch thin

I see the new MBA and I still prefer the 12"MB.
I have a wide budget so my purchase would be top high-end with i7 cpu, 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD.

My question is:
Should I buy it or should I wait for 2019?
2019 meaning:
- New CPU (ARM?)
- 3rd gen keyboard
- Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) port
- 1TB SSD?


Don't try to convince me to go for new MBA ;-)

If you still like the 12" MacBook....why don't you just keep on using the 12" MacBook?

 

[toddzrx]

I know about all things new MBA does better than current 12"MB but....

Let's be fair: New MBA cannot compete with
- 2 pounds of weight
- fanless
- 0.14 to 0.5 inch thin

I see the new MBA and I still prefer the 12"MB.
I have a wide budget so my purchase would be top high-end with i7 cpu, 16gb RAM and 512gb SSD.

My question is:
Should I buy it or should I wait for 2019?
2019 meaning:
- New CPU (ARM?)
- 3rd gen keyboard
- Thunderbolt 3 (USB-C) port
- 1TB SSD?


Don't try to convince me to go for new MBA ;-)

It seems to me that you're too caught up in specs. What do you actually need the computer for? I'd focus on that more than the spec sheet.

But the foldable display smartphones are coming, and likely will be debuting on the market sometime early next year.

And once that new formfactor matures, that will likely spell the end of significant footprint of dedicated tablets on the market, in the next 2-4 years.

Dedicated tablets are really in their last several years of usefulness, in a category as a whole, it simply does not have enough (if anything at all) to distinguish itself from the functionality that will be emcompassed by foldable phones.

Care to put your money where your mouth is? I'd gladly bet against you. Those are some bold predictions.

 

[fokmik]

since apple couldn't fit a normal 720p facetime camera into the 12" MB, i don't think Apple could fit faceID

 

[Neodym]

the foldable display smartphones are coming, and likely will be debuting on the market sometime early next year.
[...]
And once that new formfactor matures, that will likely spell the end of significant footprint of dedicated tablets on the market, in the next 2-4 years. Why would you carry two devices where one actually can do both by transforming, as long as the build is sufficiently reliable, which will come with time. Dedicated tablets are really in their last several years of usefulness,

Personally I don’t see foldable displays maturing sufficiently anytime soon. They may appear on shows and perhaps even make it into the odd niche device by some small company trying to gather attention. But I doubt they’ll become mainstream. The whole IT industry has worked towards eliminating moving parts to improve reliability (and to a certain extent cost position), so going for a foldable display would be a step backwards.

I do, however, agree with your POV that tablets will have a harder time in the future, especially in the high end sector. There I expect proper VR/AR displays (as in „normal-sized glasses with integrated display“) to mature and replace tablets, probably with some wearable (such as e.g. an Apple Watch) becoming the logic core driving the displays and coordinating user interfacing (e.g. gestures for interaction).

The low cost sector will probably stick to standard tablets for a couple years longer, until VR/AR glasses will become mainstream and affordable.

 

[HardBall]

It seems to me that you're too caught up in specs. What do you actually need the computer for? I'd focus on that more than the spec sheet.



Care to put your money where your mouth is? I'd gladly bet against you. Those are some bold predictions.

Sure, what do you want to do, through venmo or something. Just set it up, and make sure it's legal in NY, I'd be happy to do that. We won't know the outcome until about 2022 anyways.
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Personally I don’t see foldable displays maturing sufficiently anytime soon. They may appear on shows and perhaps even make it into the odd niche device by some small company trying to gather attention. But I doubt they’ll become mainstream. The whole IT industry has worked towards eliminating moving parts to improve reliability (and to a certain extent cost position), so going for a foldable display would be a step backwards.

I do, however, agree with your POV that tablets will have a harder time in the future, especially in the high end sector. There I expect proper VR/AR displays (as in „normal-sized glasses with integrated display“) to mature and replace tablets, probably with some wearable (such as e.g. an Apple Watch) becoming the logic core driving the displays and coordinating user interfacing (e.g. gestures for interaction).

The low cost sector will probably stick to standard tablets for a couple years longer, until VR/AR glasses will become mainstream and affordable.

Well, multiple companies are already about to release devices over this winter, granted will be low volume boutique parts. If you looked back at the original curved display phones on the mass market (Note 4 edge, Late 2014), it took maybe another 18 months for the market to widely adopt that, and becoming common place by the time Galaxy S7 came out. Granted there is a little more durability concerns with moving parts, it shouldn't really take more than 4 years for that to mature sufficiently for these to become volume products.

That's where the iphone XS Max successor in a couple of years will be. Something like a 6.5" folded out to 9" would really be very suitable to replace both phone and tablet functionality. iPads are just not a long term viable category of product, it's destined to be overtaken by larger iphones.

Just to add, I definitely also agree with you about the projection type of displays with AR. We have already seen a few prototypes of devices that would work that way. That would also eventually be able to challenge for a piece of living room display, if the projection tech's quality gets good enough.