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I want an HDR camera

Cooknn

Cooknn

macrumors 68020
Original poster
Aug 23, 2003
2,111
0
Fort Myers, FL
I shoot real estate panorama's, and because my pic's cover 360° I end up with bright and not so bright area’s in almost every one of my (interior) shots. Just like everyone else I have to shoot multiple sets of exposures and put them together one way or another. I am so sick of masking. And I don’t like the results from Photoshop CS2’s HDR functionality – or anything else for that matter. It’s come down to a manual process and it’s getting old.

Is there even anything on the drawing board somewhere that will shoot HDR? I don’t know the specifics regarding the technology, but I guess it would require the camera to capture 16-bit images instead of 8-bit. Somebody educate me :eek:
 
I just use the Auto Exposure Bracketing function on my digital Canon Rebel XT, use it to take three separate shots with different aperture openings, then combine them using a software called Photomatix Pro. I'm satisfied with it.
 
valdore said:
I just use the Auto Exposure Bracketing function on my digital Canon Rebel XT, use it to take three separate shots with different aperture openings, then combine them using a software called Photomatix Pro. I'm satisfied with it.
Click to expand...

I have heard it's better to change the shutter speed rather than the aperture.
 
valdore said:
Using the auto bracketing feature on the camera, both shutter speeds and aperture openings are varied with each shot. Sorry I should have included that part about the shutter in my previous post.
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still, having aperture change changes DoF, which can lead to ghosting and makes output HDRs less sharp. and 3 exposures isn't good enough anyway for serious images, I usually shoot at least 5, and up to 21 for some shots I really care about!:eek:
 
valdore said:
I just use the Auto Exposure Bracketing function on my digital Canon Rebel XT, use it to take three separate shots with different aperture openings, then combine them using a software called Photomatix Pro. I'm satisfied with it.
Click to expand...
Photomatix does okay - comparable CS2's Merge to HDR. IMHO, they both sacrifice the properly exposed area's to bring in those that would be too dark normally. What happens is you end up with an image with High Dynamic Range - but overall it looks too dark...

Regarding Auto Exposure Bracketing, my problem is that when shooting inside there is often a very big differential between the shutter speed for windows versus the rest of the room. More than ±2EV. Is it too much to ask for my camera to see as good as my eyes? One can only dream :p
 
Cooknn said:
Is there even anything on the drawing board somewhere that will shoot HDR? I don’t know the specifics regarding the technology, but I guess it would require the camera to capture 16-bit images instead of 8-bit. Somebody educate me :eek:
Click to expand...

They have it now. It's called "negative film" it has a huge dynamic range. Some panoramic film camera can take a 360 degree exposure all on one frame. The camera spins and the film advances past a slit and you get one long frame with no stitching required. There are digital versions that use a line sensor line like in a scanner and "scan" out a full 360 degrees. Pretty much solves your problem. Except one thing: The cameras are expensive. Likely cheaper to hire some guy with a cheap digi-cam and photoshop than to drop a few grand on a spin-camera

See here for more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramic_photography#Full_rotation
 
While I agree this would be awesome it certainly takes away part of the craft. I think digital took away enough of the craft already but then again I'm an old purist at heart.
 
ChrisA said:
They have it now. It's called "negative film" it has a huge dynamic range. Some panoramic film camera can take a 360 degree exposure all on one frame. The camera spins and the film advances past a slit and you get one long frame with no stitching required. There are digital versions that use a line sensor line like in a scanner and "scan" out a full 360 degrees. Pretty much solves your problem. Except one thing: The cameras are expensive. Likely cheaper to hire some guy with a cheap digi-cam and photoshop than to drop a few grand on a spin-camera

See here for more info
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panoramic_photography#Full_rotation
Click to expand...
Very cool :D Thanks for the info!
 
Cooknn said:
Is it too much to ask for my camera to see as good as my eyes? One can only dream :p
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I feel ya, but then I'm already stoked at what a telephoto can do. Give it twenty years, cameras will automatically follow your eye movement and record twenty four hours of 100 Mp/frame video at 100 fps while fitting your face like a cool pair of shades.:cool:
 
valdore said:
I just use the Auto Exposure Bracketing function on my digital Canon Rebel XT, use it to take three separate shots with different aperture openings, then combine them using a software called Photomatix Pro. I'm satisfied with it.
Click to expand...
I did the same thing with bracketing, but my camera can only do a max 2 f-stops. I found just shooting in RAW better since there's approximately the same amount of latitude in the RAW data as there is in auto exposure bracketing.

For real HDR, you'll need 5-12 exposures to do it properly.
 
hey cooknn, I was doing some unrelated research and saw that the 39MP Hasselblad CF-MS digital back does HDR. That and a HD3 body and a nice kit of hasselblad lenses should be nice and cheap, eh?;)
 
wmmk said:
hey cooknn, I was doing some unrelated research and saw that the 39MP Hasselblad CF-MS digital back does HDR. That and a HD3 body and a nice kit of hasselblad lenses should be nice and cheap, eh?;)
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Nice! You got me moving in the right direction - I just stumbled upon the Leaf Aptus 17 Digital Camera Back. "Raw HDR files of 16 bits capture a 12-stop dynamic range, producing every nuance in the shadows and highlights, and achieving consistently smooth and accurate colors." Only $16K :eek:
 
How many stops does a Fuji S5Pro/S3Pro get you in RAW? Should be more than the typical 10 stops (typical when shooting in RAW and using software to get the most out of an image).....maybe 12 stops total, with the extra 2 stops coming in the highlight end, right? It's probably not good enough, but if you can use a Fuji S5Pro and bracket.....
 
cgratti said:
You heard correct, if you change the aperture you change the DoF. Just change the shutter speed..
Click to expand...

Well using Aperture priority mode with auto bracketing will only allow the shutter speed to change, right?

Also how do you change the bracketing range after you've shot the first 3 photos, without pressing buttons on the camera and changing it's position? I know there is a remote that can do it but it was about $200 if i remember correctly.
 
I usually use Photomatix to put together pictures shot with AE bracketing on my Nikon D50, perched on a Bogen/Manfrotto tripod to keep it still even if I use the exposure compensation. Aperture priority mode works very well for keeping the aperture static and varying only the shutter speed; HDR subjects will by necessity generally be static subjects shot from a tripod anyhow, so fast shutter speeds aren't essential or anything.

Generally, I shoot 3 exposures with the bracketing and no exposure compensation, and then I compensate up and down five stops each and run the 3-exposure bracket again; I believe some higher-end camera bodies, such as the Nikon D200, can do a wide range of bracketing without needing to force it with exposure compensation, but I get good results.
 
It probably still won't be precisely what you're looking for, but have you looked at Photoshop CS3's photomerge and HDR? They've done a heck of a job improving those portions of the program (in my opinion). Since it's free when you have CS2 you might just give it a shot.
 
Lovesong said:
Yup, and for the low, low price of $27,000....
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To put this in perspective, I know one photographer who charges about $50K for a typical shoot. No he doesn't do houses for real estate agents or do weddings. But some studio setups are expensive to shoot and hence the $50K price. Have to hire models, makeup people, build sets and the studio space is rented. A $27K camera is not unreasonable for profesional use. Also the after tax price is lower than $27K

Have you ever priced a new film based Hasselblad or a Sinar P2 system. You can get to $30K real fast if you start buying pro level studio cameras.
 
Cooknn said:
I shoot real estate panorama's, and because my pic's cover 360° I end up with bright and not so bright area’s in almost every one of my (interior) shots. Just like everyone else I have to shoot multiple sets of exposures and put them together one way or another. I am so sick of masking. And I don’t like the results from Photoshop CS2’s HDR functionality – or anything else for that matter. It’s come down to a manual process and it’s getting old.

Is there even anything on the drawing board somewhere that will shoot HDR? I don’t know the specifics regarding the technology, but I guess it would require the camera to capture 16-bit images instead of 8-bit. Somebody educate me :eek:
Click to expand...

The Fuji S3pro should give you more dynamic range, but why not just bring some strobes and diffuse them? A couple of good softboxes will brighten and even things up enough to be flattering in most situations.
 
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