i5 & i7 comparisons

[George Colgrove]

I have 2 mid 2012 13 inch MacBook Pro’s.

Both with the same OCLP install of MacOS Monterey.

One has the 2.5 GHz i5 with 8 GB of 1600 DDR3 memory.

One has the 2.9 GHz i7 with 16 GB of 1600 DDR3 memory.

Both have the latest firmware that came with the latest updates for Catalina 11.15.7.

In every other way, they are identical and identically configured.

The i5 seems to be faster than the i7.

Why would this be?

 

[Technerd108]

Probably due to thermal throttling. The i5 doesn't have as high a peak frequency which means it probably runs cooler than the i7 and as a result can sustain a higher frequency under load.

Sometimes faster isn't better. If thermal constraints are there and all else is equal then the faster machine can be slower because it gets hotter and has to scale back more aggressively than the slower machine and as a result the so called slower machine performs better. This is why Apple silicon has such an advantage over Intel is due to thermal constraints that don't exist on M1. The process node of the processor you have is 14nm or higher which means it runs hot! The lower the process node the faster and more efficient it is and ARM is also even better in this regard. Thermal throttling is a huge problem with Intel processors and a lot of people don't understand this and Intel has been able to upsell to users without any real benefit to them.

Also just because one machine has more ram doesn't mean it is faster in all ways. Ram doesn't make the processor faster and in some applications or actions the processor is more important than ram. If the 8gb ram is enough for what you are doing and all else is equal it will come down to the performance of the processor and since the i7 is throttling more than the i5 the i5 will be faster a lot of the time.

 

[MBAir2010]

i7 is a much responsive improvement!

 

[Technerd108]

i7 is a much responsive improvement!

That doesn't seem to be what the OP experience is. Did you read his question??

 

[MBAir2010]

The i5 seems to be faster than the i7.

Why would this be?

depends what the MacBook pro is doing as well, as in handbrake or adobe illustrator or other programs that hog cpu
i was watching a NFL game in the i7 mini then on the iPad, which was 10 seconds ahead, on the same website,

also free ard drive space is a key which!

 

[MBAir2010]

That doesn't seem to be what the OP experience is. Did you read his question??

yeah, then i hit the post reply by mistake

 

[smbu2000]

Do both have the same or similar type of drives in them? HDD or SSD?

If those are the same, then could it be something internal such as dry thermal paste on the i7 that would cause more slowdowns/thermal throttling? Or excessive dust in the fan?

Are they unibody MBPs? I believe 2012 are prone to having SATA cable issues/failures especially when switching to SSDs that cause issues.

 

[George Colgrove]

Probably due to thermal throttling. The i5 doesn't have as high a peak frequency which means it probably runs cooler than the i7 and as a result can sustain a higher frequency under load.

Sometimes faster isn't better. If thermal constraints are there and all else is equal then the faster machine can be slower because it gets hotter and has to scale back more aggressively than the slower machine and as a result the so called slower machine performs better. This is why Apple silicon has such an advantage over Intel is due to thermal constraints that don't exist on M1. The process node of the processor you have is 14nm or higher which means it runs hot! The lower the process node the faster and more efficient it is and ARM is also even better in this regard. Thermal throttling is a huge problem with Intel processors and a lot of people don't understand this and Intel has been able to upsell to users without any real benefit to them.

Also just because one machine has more ram doesn't mean it is faster in all ways. Ram doesn't make the processor faster and in some applications or actions the processor is more important than ram. If the 8gb ram is enough for what you are doing and all else is equal it will come down to the performance of the processor and since the i7 is throttling more than the i5 the i5 will be faster a lot of the time.

This explanation matches my experience. The i7 was hot-hot-hot. I ran the activity monitor and saw the iCloud process was running. Since I installed macOS from scratch it had to reload my files and photos.

I downloaded the CrystalIDEA fan monitor software once loaded, the fan operation wasn’t as dramatic and seemed more consistent The temperature seemed to moderate. I also let the machine marinate a while letting the iCloud process finish. I also left the machine on overnight to let the optimization process go on unhindered.

By morning, it was running cooler and faster.

 

[George Colgrove]

Do both have the same or similar type of drives in them? HDD or SSD?

If those are the same, then could it be something internal such as dry thermal paste on the i7 that would cause more slowdowns/thermal throttling? Or excessive dust in the fan?

Are they unibody MBPs? I believe 2012 are prone to having SATA cable issues/failures especially when switching to SSDs that cause issues.

The i5 has a high end Sandisk 500GB and the i7 has a Samsung EVO 860 500GB. The Samsung is under a year older than the Samsung. I renewed the thermal paste this last week. I installed the OS to blank disks. The iCloud process was running hard on both. I think it was thermal throttling of the i7 that was slowing it down.

 

[George Colgrove]

Of these two machines, one was largely intact but damaged. The shell was dented and deformed. The screen; however made it without a scratch. The other machine was like new. Both were i5's and similarly configured. The logic board of the damaged system worked but the connector to the display was damaged. I bought a i7 logic board and put it in the like new system. I put the i5 board in the damaged system after I fixed the shell and replaced other broken parts. I also put the battery (which was in excellent shape) in the i5 system.

I put the more used battery in the i7 system while I was waiting for a new iFixIt battery replacement. After putting the new battery in, the i7 sped up considerably. Its interesting that a new battery can effect speed. Maybe the old battery heated up more causing cpu throttling.

 

[Technerd108]

Of these two machines, one was largely intact but damaged. The shell was dented and deformed. The screen; however made it without a scratch. The other machine was like new. Both were i5's and similarly configured. The logic board of the damaged system worked but the connector to the display was damaged. I bought a i7 logic board and put it in the like new system. I put the i5 board in the damaged system after I fixed the shell and replaced other broken parts. I also put the battery (which was in excellent shape) in the i5 system.

I put the more used battery in the i7 system while I was waiting for a new iFixIt battery replacement. After putting the new battery in, the i7 sped up considerably. Its interesting that a new battery can effect speed. Maybe the old battery heated up more causing cpu throttling.

The battery could have affected voltage to the cpu?

 

[Basic75]

The battery could have affected voltage to the cpu?

AFAIK modern MacBooks won't even turn on without a battery installed, so who knows what weird effects a very old or damaged battery could have. (And by "modern" I mean something like since the Intel transition.)

 

[Erasmus]

AFAIK modern MacBooks won't even turn on without a battery installed, so who knows what weird effects a very old or damaged battery could have. (And by "modern" I mean something like since the Intel transition.)

I have an old 2011 17" MBP, for which the internal battery is completely dead. If not for also having issues with its GPU, I would have replaced the battery.

The computer still boots and runs, however it is ABYSMALLY slow, and that is because if the battery is not detected, the CPU is throttled back... HARD... to prevent any possibility of the computer drawing more than the external power supply provides (and yes, they certainly can, with the battery providing the difference). I think I recall reading ages ago that it throttles to 800MHz, but it certainly feels a lot lower than that.

 

[StoneJack]

I have an old 2011 17" MBP, for which the internal battery is completely dead. If not for also having issues with its GPU, I would have replaced the battery.

The computer still boots and runs, however it is ABYSMALLY slow, and that is because if the battery is not detected, the CPU is throttled back... HARD... to prevent any possibility of the computer drawing more than the external power supply provides (and yes, they certainly can, with the battery providing the difference). I think I recall reading ages ago that it throttles to 800MHz, but it certainly feels a lot lower than that.

why would you keep such machine, I'd let it go years ago

 

[Basic75]

I have an old 2011 17" MBP, for which the internal battery is completely dead. If not for also having issues with its GPU, I would have replaced the battery.

The computer still boots and runs, however it is ABYSMALLY slow, and that is because if the battery is not detected, the CPU is throttled back... HARD... to prevent any possibility of the computer drawing more than the external power supply provides (and yes, they certainly can, with the battery providing the difference). I think I recall reading ages ago that it throttles to 800MHz, but it certainly feels a lot lower than that.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Could you use the powermetrics command in the Terminal to check the actual frequencies? Just for fun...

 

[Basic75]

why would you keep such machine, I'd let it go years ago

That's not a very nice thing to say. Perhaps they keep it around as a collector's item, or perhaps they can't afford a newer machine.

 

[StoneJack]

That's not a very nice thing to say. Perhaps they keep it around as a collector's item, or perhaps they can't afford a newer machine.

yeah you are right. I'd at least buy a spare battery if they value it so much

 

[Erasmus]

why would you keep such machine, I'd let it go years ago

Haha, I did! That's probably the main reason the battery's dead. After the GPU died, I did the firmware fudge to force iGPU to tide me over to when the 2018's came out, and got one of them. Then it sat in a bag for years, until around 12 months ago when my dad asked about it because of it's nice 17" screen. They were still using my 2007 15"er! They are just too lazy to buy a new one, really.

Oh well, they will finally get a worthy computer soon, as I've ordered a 16" M1 Max, and they'll get my current 2018, although the reseller I bought it through (10% discount) is taking their sweet time. Over 10 weeks wait and counting! 16" M1 Max seems non-existent in Australia at the moment.

EDIT: Admittedly, I probably would have kept it a lot longer than I did except for the failing GPU (which happened well outside of the extended repair program, unfortunately). I loved that computer more than my current 2018, it was a true champ. But the cost of fixing the GPU and getting a new battery is definitely not worth it.

Yes, that's what I'm talking about. Could you use the powermetrics command in the Terminal to check the actual frequencies? Just for fun...

Confirmed through Powermetrics that it's running at 800MHz on all 4 cores, instead of up to 2.2GHz + any turbo.

 

[StoneJack]

Haha, I did! That's probably the main reason the battery's dead. After the GPU died, I did the firmware fudge to force iGPU to tide me over to when the 2018's came out, and got one of them. Then it sat in a bag for years, until around 12 months ago when my dad asked about it because of it's nice 17" screen. They were still using my 2007 15"er! They are just too lazy to buy a new one, really.

Oh well, they will finally get a worthy computer soon, as I've ordered a 16" M1 Max, and they'll get my current 2018, although the reseller I bought it through (10% discount) is taking their sweet time. Over 10 weeks wait and counting! 16" M1 Max seems non-existent in Australia at the moment.

EDIT: Admittedly, I probably would have kept it a lot longer than I did except for the failing GPU (which happened well outside of the extended repair program, unfortunately). I loved that computer more than my current 2018, it was a true champ. But the cost of fixing the GPU and getting a new battery is definitely not worth it.


Confirmed through Powermetrics that it's running at 800MHz on all 4 cores, instead of up to 2.2GHz + any turbo.

Well, generally I like how your family stores, restores and uses all those old computers..It is just completely different from my style.. every 3-4 years I upgrade and sell (or sometimes gift) older hardware, I keep only my first Mac, LC 630 as a memory.

 

[mr_manny]

Are they unibody MBPs? I believe 2012 are prone to having SATA cable issues/failures especially when switching to SSDs that cause issues.

Interesting.
I just pulled a SSD from the trash, thought it was bad...ended up being SATA cable.
Discovered after having issues installing OS onto replacement SSD.

Issues encountered after 6yrs w/SSD on i7 unibody MBP.

 

[smbu2000]

Interesting.
I just pulled a SSD from the trash, thought it was bad...ended up being SATA cable.
Discovered after having issues installing OS onto replacement SSD.

Issues encountered after 6yrs w/SSD on i7 unibody MBP.

Yeah, not sure why it happens but it does. Even if the cable works fine with the standard hdd, swapping in a ssd can cause issues with the cable.
It’s useful to test out drives like that in an external usb case to make sure the drive works. If it does then it is most likely a sata cable issue.

I’ve had to replace a sata cable myself in my old unibody MBP.