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Erlang

macrumors member
Original poster
Dec 23, 2009
97
18
SW, UK
I've had a Mac Pro since 2009, started as a 2.26 Dual 4,1 currently morphed to 5,1 dual 3.33 GHz with SSD and RX580.

I' happy with it, does what I want, but very cognisant that it's on borrowed time regarding life of internals such as PSU, and logic board etc.

So where next? I could dig deep and buy a 7,1 base or slightly beyond, but my only justification is being able to do to it what I did with my 4,1 i.e. keep it going for ten years. Plus looks better for keeping airflows clean (dusty hot country) long term.

All other options would have the power but I lack the faith I could keep them alive for the amount of time I did this 4,1.

I'm slightly leaning toward an iMac but it feels like the thermals might be a compromise too far.

By rights I shouldn't be in the market for a 7,1 but feel I'll get one late 2020-2021 due to a lack of alternative.

Views?
 
Keeping a system going for 10 years just strikes me as the wrong approach. Think about your 4,1 with lack of USB 3.x, PCIe3, bluetooth, etc... I replace my systems as new options are released (that's certainly more than required). I'd recommend you plan on a 3-5 year lifespan instead. A Mac Mini, MBP, or iMac/Pro could all keep up with or outperform your system today and since the economics seem to be a concern you'd be much more likely to replace those systems in a more reasonable time frame thus keeping up with current technology.
 
I made the choice last year, and very happy for it

About my Mac -mod.png
 
Keeping a system going for 10 years just strikes me as the wrong approach. Think about your 4,1 with lack of USB 3.x, PCIe3, bluetooth, etc... I replace my systems as new options are released (that's certainly more than required). I'd recommend you plan on a 3-5 year lifespan instead. A Mac Mini, MBP, or iMac/Pro could all keep up with or outperform your system today and since the economics seem to be a concern you'd be much more likely to replace those systems in a more reasonable time frame thus keeping up with current technology.

Well I have USB3.x and the Bluetooth also updated as per these forums, but I get your thrust.
 
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My dad would say, Don't fix what isn't broken. You don't know what will be available in two years time. Keep your powder dry? Save $$ until then? Let the 7.1 shake out the bugs? But always keep backing up your data...
 
I've used iMacs and the thermal issues do exist, but for the majority of users it's not a HUGE deal or something that isn't manageable. Bigger issue with YouTube bloggers than the ones in offices I've been on. Knowing the issues can/do exist ahead of time helps.

If you're talking iMac Pro, that's an improvement in thermals for sure, but I'd expect a spec bump on that within the next 3-6 months (maybe sooner) before Gen2 is released. Apple should drop the iMacPro price when MP7,1 is available, but we'll see if it actually happens.

Short-term, I'll likely be transitioning to a 2019 MBP 16" with 64GB RAM and 5500M 8GB GPU to use in conjunction with MP5,1 for now. An old MBP really needs to upgraded anyway, so it makes sense for my current situation. Waiting for initial batch of users to get theirs and first availability in stores to hands on demo before placing an order. Crossing fingers for any kind of Black Friday incentive or gift card, but not holding breath.

Longer-term, I'll be waiting for a sale or price drop on MP7,1 like happened with iMacPro. Had it actually been available to purchase/ship, or even if BTO pricing actually been announced/released, it would have changed my situation. Should have a better gauge on the market, 3rd party upgrades, etc. within 3-6 months. Right now, probably 75% chance I'll be purchasing before mid/end 2020. I'll likely buy close to the base model and absolutely would upgrade it over time.

If this is/was not the answer, it would be a MacMini (or MacMiniPro style machine) or straight PC.
 
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Unless you are chained to OSX only software, I'd recommend transitioning off OSX and leaving Apple behind.

At the end of the day, you do your work in applications, not the operating system. And unfortunately, Apple doesn't want you (or me) as a customer.
 
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Short-term, I'll likely be transitioning to a 2019 MBP 16" with 64GB RAM and 5500M 8GB GPU to use in conjunction with MP5,1 for now. An old MBP really needs to upgraded anyway, so it makes sense for my current situation. Waiting for initial batch of users to get theirs and first availability in stores to hands on demo before placing an order. Crossing fingers for any kind of Black Friday incentive or gift card, but not holding breath.

I'm in the same boat. I considered the 7,1 but the price tag is just too high and I don't need that much computing power. I'm happy with my 5,1 but would like to have a 5K or even the 6K monitor. I may go with the new 16" MBP, as my MBP 15" is from 2013, and keep the 5,1 as a backup server ... and CD player :)
 
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I've had a Mac Pro since 2009, started as a 2.26 Dual 4,1 currently morphed to 5,1 dual 3.33 GHz with SSD and RX580.

I' happy with it, does what I want, but very cognisant that it's on borrowed time regarding life of internals such as PSU, and logic board etc.

If mucking with the internal firmware is a major part of "does what I want" ( it is a control 'thing'. ) then probably should look to a current iMac. The changing to user chosen unapproved firmware is going away with the T2 roll out.

So where next? I could dig deep and buy a 7,1 base or slightly beyond, but my only justification is being able to do to it what I did with my 4,1 i.e.

If really not primarily a performance driven update probably the best move is to wait and see what Apple does with the Mac Mini in 2020 ( or 2021 if you are able and willing to coast that long). Apple made the new MBP 16" a bit thicker to put in a better thermal system. If they get the Mini unstuck from the same physical dimensions from 5+ years ago and update to 2020 era internals CPU options it will probably be a better option ( if not fixated on hacking the firmware. ).

I don't think the Mini will magically turn into the mythical xMac, but Apple would more so have a case and thermal design build for what they had as a CPU-GPU rather than what they wished (or some failed roadmap told them) they had.

You could pull your RX580 and put it into a eGPU and spend way less than a MP 2019.

The Mini doesn't have trivial disassembly, but if tinker/hobby activity is a side objective then periodically it can be opened (and cleaned out). [ ditto for the eGPU that takes a add-in card or two. ]


keep it going for ten years. Plus looks better for keeping airflows clean (dusty hot country) long term.

Macs with higher prices don't come with higher support lifetimes. The Mac Pro 2009-2012 models are probably more so an odd corner case than the rule. There was a extended support window because Apple goofed up, not because that was the initial objective when they started out with the 2009 models.

I don't think Apple is going to put the Mac Pro on a yearly cycle but if it is about a 2 year cycle then the 5-7 year Vintage/Obsolete cycle puts the expected range about 9 years. 10 is a bit of a stretch but doable ( but likely outside of security upgrades and/or latest features. )


All other options would have the power but I lack the faith I could keep them alive for the amount of time I did this 4,1.

There is a difference between "keep it alive' and add latest new shiny tech in the "keep up with the Tech Jones".


I'm slightly leaning toward an iMac but it feels like the thermals might be a compromise too far.

If you don't buy the bleeding edge and/or assign it workloads it wasn't design for, then it isn't. If you have relatively high disk write churn I'd be more concerned about that than thermals over a 10 year period.


By rights I shouldn't be in the market for a 7,1 but feel I'll get one late 2020-2021 due to a lack of alternative.

If can wait until late 2020 then probably should look at the options then. ( Apple mainly just 'kicked the can' on the iMac and the Mini in 2019. One of those should get some substantive upgrade attention in 2020. Probably the iMac Pro too but it doesn't look like that is a good fit here with performance not a key driver. )
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If you're talking iMac Pro, that's an improvement in thermals for sure, but I'd expect a spec bump on that within the next 3-6 months (maybe sooner) before Gen2 is released. Apple should drop the iMacPro price when MP7,1 is available, but we'll see if it actually happens.

If there is a decent upgrade coming for the iMac Pro in 3-6 months then Apple is unlikely to make any price changes on the release of the MP7,1. Especially, if it is that shorter end of that range 3 months MP actually shipping in volume. The current MP6,1 hasn't seen a price drop in 2 years (and was about 4 years before that small delta ). Apple's standard modus operandi is not to move on pricing once set ( there are rare exceptions but the iMac Pro probably isn't in one at this point. Apple needs an upgrade, not a start term price drop to show iMac Pro isn't going into Rip van Winkle mode. A price drop now will signal "abandoned" as much as anything else. )

Apple positioning the entry price of the MP at about $6K means the iMac Pro already has room in the Mac prize zones line. Apple should bump it down a bit more when the W 2200 series revised iMac Pro ship unless they do something something to counterbalance that. (e.g., attach a bigger and/or more expensive screen. Or push the core counts down and start at 10 cores with shorter BTO range in count if staying rigid on screen tech. ).
 
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Continue to Hackintosh used HP Z820, Z840, or Z8. Unless you absolutely need the latest, the price/performance ratio cannot be beat. Spare me the lectures. Not listening. I have billable work to do.
 
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I’m seriously considering a base iMac Pro refurbished, going to start looking for the best deal on one.
This will keep me happy for a couple of years. Also I can keep track on the Mac Pro and see Apple’s plans for this machine over the next couple of years.
 
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There are a lot more reasons to not hackintosh besides whether it's legal or ethical. It's complicated getting a hackintosh up and running, burdensome doing updates, and problematic for Apple when they receive bug reports for problems that real Macs don't have which may in turn degrade the experience for those running macOS on real Macs.
 
This is sound advice.

It is sound advice, however, it isn't the kind of advice I want to give. I would prefer to stay on OSX, however, Tim doesn't want me as a customer.

And because he doesn't want to sell me a computer, I (and my extended family) won't be buying any more iPads or iPhones.

And no, it doesn't matter to Apple, but it will to me
 
I would suggest a separate thread for the Hackintosh debate but I don't think anybody would go there.
It's like people will fight at a bar but won't go to a gym and duke it out.
 
might allow me to decommission a Mac and use its macOS in a Hack.
I think Apple only allows (in legal terms) to run OSX on Apple hardware. You are allowed to run OSX in virtual machine so long the machine resides on a Apple hardware.

"The macOS EULA forbids installations of macOS on a "non-Apple-branded computer".[4] On July 3, 2008, Apple filed a lawsuit against Psystar Corporation[42] for violating this restriction, among other claims.[43] Apple claimed Psystar "violated the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA) by dodging copy-protection technologies Apple uses to protect Mac OS X." Apple employs technological protection measures that effectively control access to Apple's copyrighted works. Specifically, Apple charged Psystar with acquiring or creating code that "avoids, bypasses, removes, descrambles, decrypts, deactivates or impairs a technological protection measure without Apple's authority for the purpose of gaining unauthorized access to Apple's copyrighted works."[44] This brief revealed that Apple considers the methods that it uses to prevent macOS from being installed on non-Apple hardware to be protected by the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (DMCA).

On November 13, 2009, the court granted Apple's motion for summary judgment and found Apple's copyrights were violated as well as the DMCA when Psystar installed Apple's operating system on non-Apple computers. A hearing on remedies was set for December 14.[8][45]

On January 14, 2009, the Gadget Lab site of Wired Magazine posted a video tutorial for installing Mac OS X on an MSI Wind netbook, but removed it following a complaint from Apple.[46] Textual instructions remain, but include an EULA violation disclaimer.[47]

On May 15, 2012, the case Apple vs. Psystar Corporation finally ended. The court ruled that Psystar had "violated Apple's exclusive reproduction right, distribution right, and right to create derivative works,"[48] putting an end to the case."
 
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It is sound advice, however, it isn't the kind of advice I want to give. I would prefer to stay on OSX, however, Tim doesn't want me as a customer.
My recommendation to move to an alternative is partially based on lack of an xMac offering but it's more about the uncertainty Apple has demonstrated to their professional users.

Professionals need stability and the ability to plan. Apple hasn't provided any of that for many years. The fact we're a little over a month away from the end of the promised delivery date without any basic information (configurations, pricing, etc.) makes it difficult for professionals to plan. Perhaps their largest professional customers have more information but nothing has been shared with the general public.

Having said that I'm surprised how many people have expressed disappointment it hasn't already been released. Apple did state Fall 2019 which, we all should assume, means 12/20/2019.
 
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