I’m gonna come back to Apple.

[katyoshi]

I’ve been with Apple for decades since the white MacBooks came out which I still have. Then I transitioned to PC for gaming last year. Then I finally realized I’m spending way too much money on gaming pc upgrades and graphics cards and focusing on the stupid specs. Most of my friends have Xbox anyway. I’m a medical professional and not a graphics person. So the integration of the ecosystem and ease of use with Apple products brought me back to using now the iPhone 11 Pro from the Samsung Galaxy s10 and google pixel 4 XL. Now I got the 2020 iPad 12 inch with that magic keyboard.

I also got a razor blade 15 from 2019. While it’s been fun I’m focusing more on Xbox gaming with my friends. The laptop is cool but I don’t play pc games anymore. Though the iPad Pro 12 is awesome, it’s still a little limited in regards to stuff I’m doing on unstoppable domains and other stuff that requires the brave browser and it’s crypto wallet features. There are just some stuff that I do that requires the computer operating system and the iPados doesn’t cut it. So I’m thinking of getting a Mac laptop and now that Apple is coming out with their own arm SOC, I’m gonna come back to apples laptops. I still got my iMac 2013 27” but when traveling on the go overseas and stuff, having a Mac helps.

so yeah. I’m switching back to the Mac for laptops. Who’s done the same?

 

[MikhailT]

Keep in mind that whatever software you're using is going to need to be recompiled to work at full speed on Apple Silicon Macs. It can take a long time before majority of the apps are native on Apple Silicon Macs.

Depending on when you get the laptop, you might be disappointed that Brave + crypto stuff is slow out of the box. So, don't sell your PC laptop until you're happy with Apple Silicon Macs fully.

As for me, I still have `12 rMBP that I want to replace with the Apple Silicon Mac Book Pro, which will also replace my 2015 iPad Pro because I use it in landscape most of the time. iPad Pro is still my favorite device that I use personally full time because of the software there. Having that come to Apple Silicon Macs is going to be awesome, even tho I know not 100% will make it there due to touchscreen stuff. I'll keep my gaming desktop for old PC games that's not available on Xbox.

 

[KPOM]

Keep in mind that whatever software you're using is going to need to be recompiled to work at full speed on Apple Silicon Macs. It can take a long time before majority of the apps are native on Apple Silicon Macs.

From the WWDC videos, Apple is making it seem as if porting apps will be easier than in the PPC to Intel transition. The key is whether the developer is still actively supporting the app.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Keep in mind that whatever software you're using is going to need to be recompiled to work at full speed on Apple Silicon Macs

Remember that some real real bad boys have already benchmarked the DTK and the results were like 70% of native speed when running emulated x86 AMD64 code.

Also, that was running all through emulation, you get that missing 30% back for everything that goes through any kind of OS function.

 

[MikhailT]

From the WWDC videos, Apple is making it seem as if porting apps will be easier than in the PPC to Intel transition. The key is whether the developer is still actively supporting the app.

Remember what Apple used to say about Mac Cataylst, how it was going to be a simple checkbox for porting iPad apps to macOS? It didn't do much at all. Some of apps Apple demo'ed didn't even come out like the DC Universe app. Even Apple's Mac Catalyst apps like News is horrible. Electron apps run better than their apps.

I put very little in what Apple said because of their infamous reality distortion field. I wait until the actual stuff comes out and see what developers do.

Even when the first Retina Macs came out, it took a few years before majority of apps were supporting 2x assets and before macOS were not lagging on them.

Remember that some real real bad boys have already benchmarked the DTK and the results were like 70% of native speed when running emulated x86 AMD64 code.

Also, that was running all through emulation, you get that missing 30% back for everything that goes through any kind of OS function.

For some, 30% may be too much for them. Rosetta 2 is capable, for sure, but not every single app will be running at 70% either. All we saw was just a single app but at the same time, it was a slower A12Z chip too. Mac SoC will be much faster, so Apple could get it 30% faster to make it comparable to the Intel Macs of same class.

All I'm saying is that, don't listen to Apple. Wait for actual proof with actual hardware first.

 

[TrevorR90]

I've been with apple for the past 15 years, but still gonna stick with them despite switch to ARM. Like another user said, it will take a while for the complete switch.

 

[Trusteft]

Then I transitioned to PC for gaming last year. Then I finally realized I’m spending way too much money on gaming pc upgrades and graphics cards and focusing on the stupid specs.

I smell BS.
You transitioned to PC gaming last year and already, mid of 2020, you are spending way too much money on upgrading and graphics cards? Yeah...unless you got suckered by someone to keep buying new upgrades for some reason, this makes no sense.
Even a medium class gaming PC from 2019 should last you for years without the need for upgrades.

 

[ssmed]

I would wait and see what happens with the applications available before committing personally. I suspect we will see considerable upheaval on the business applications front, unless you want everything on the web.

 

[Bug-Creator]

but not every single app will be running at 70% either.

Right.

A synthetic benchmarks is actually the worst case scenario as it mostly concentrates on the one thing effected by translation/emulation. Executing instructions that is.

Real life performance also depends on memory speeds (not effected as this is translation at install time, not run time) and external HW as anything calling the GPU, filesystems etc which will also not be affected.

So yes expect the difference between the same app running native (ARM) vs. translated to be anywhere between 5-30%.

 

[SegNerd]

As far as I’m concerned, 0% is too much.

If ARM Macs are the same speed as Intel Macs (with both running native software), then we will be subjecting developers and users to a difficult transition, and also giving up Boot Camp, basically for nothing.

Even a performance boost of something like 10-15% really wouldn’t be enough to justify migrating the entire platform. Intel processors would catch up before long.

As far as I’m concerned, ARM Macs need to be at least 25% faster at running native software, hopefully even more. Otherwise, this transition is just a cash grab, and I might lose my faith in Apple.

 

[Bug-Creator]

Well the 5-30% are obviously compared to native ARM code on the same HW.

As for comparing to Intel, that DTK is already faster than a base MacMini while running a 2 year old CPU NOT designed for that purpose, so I'd say there won't be an issue for at least the bottom half of the Mac lineup.

Sure Intel may play catchup (at what Watt...) but Apple won't stop either so that also an non-issue.

We loose Bootcamp (never cared about it) but we gain (hopefully) longer battery life and quieter desktops, so that a win for me even before we consider the possibility of the improved interoperability with i(Pad)OS.

 

[MikhailT]

Deleted.

 

[SegNerd]

Mac app developers are already a much smaller group than Windows developers. It is a major issue that they will have to rework all their software just for a chance to compete with ad-supported novelty apps. iOS software may be greater in number, but I don't think it is greater in quality.

 

[lJoSquaredl]

I had both for a long time after being a PC person, but yeah like you PC/Windows just sucks so much more time and money imo. It's all about tweaking specs both in software and hardware all the time, with Apple I just buy a different device that serves a different purpose and that's it, that's the last time I really think about it till I sell it. I can focus on work and what not, and tho ARM screws me a bit with gaming at least for the present time, it does solve all the other issues I've had with Apple like noise and heat and battery life when doing stressful things. If I REALLY need a PC for gaming I may get some cheapo system I don't need to upgrade, or just wait for games to get ported or made for ARM. Till then...Halo Infinite is coming soon, if it's good I can probably just use that to hold me over. I watch LoLesports anyways I don't need to play LoL a lot to enjoy it anyways. And WoW...man that game is just a colossal time and money sink it's probably better I don't even dabble in it at all lol

 

[Ursadorable]

There's devs already releasing ARM ready versions of their software. Since very few people still program in assembly, there's not many reasons why you can just recompile the same source code for ARM.

 

[dugbug]

There's devs already releasing ARM ready versions of their software. Since very few people still program in assembly, there's not many reasons why you can just recompile the same source code for ARM.

You can get into some endianness issues, but yeah its going to be a cakewalk for most apps.

 

[Bug-Creator]

You can get into some endianness issues,

Everything Apple+ARM runs in Little-Endian, just like anything x86/AMD64.

Doubt that the 70% performance under Rosetta2 could have been reached if that wasn't so.