iMac 27" Nightmare

[Buerkletucson]

Late 2015 iMac Retina 27"
Top of the line machine
4.0GHz i7
32GB 1867MHz DDR3L
1TB Flash
AMD Radeon R9 M395X w/4GB

Had the machine for about 18 months and it started crashing (as in like pulling the power plug) on 8/1/2017.
It will crash 6 times in a day then work fine for a week without an issue then start crashing again.
Worked with Apple care technical numerous times on the phone sending files, running various diagnostics, yada, yada.
Brought to the local Apple store 2x and left it several days each time, they claim it has not failed for them.
Everything came back fine on their testing.....surprise.
Absolutely nothing in any of the files that even shows there is a problem.

• Removed all peripherals, including the wired LAN.....still fails
• Removed several Apps that Apple didn't like and thought were suspect.....still fails
• Powered from a Cyberpower UPS.....even removed it from this and powered from a different outlet......still fails
• Removed 16GB 3rd party RAM Apple said was suspect........still fails
• Wiped SS HD clean and reinstalled a fresh copy of Sierra.......still fails
• It will crash just sitting at the initial setup screen after a fresh installation

Apple Store Genius Bar technical don't seem to have the patience or time to work on intermittent issues like this and after a few days they call and say it's ready for me to pickup. I asked them what they found......"it never failed for us" we can't fix anything unless we see the issue.

The thing is unpredictable........crashing 6x in one day but then may work for a week before it acts up again.
Not very happy with Apple's approach.........it's the customers issue unless we can duplicate the problem.....but yet, they don't take the time to see the issue!

Very frustrated with a top of the line $4K machine that I purchased 18-months ago along with AppleCare, but Apple won't take the time too repair it.
It's a boat anchor at this point....

 

[Apple_Robert]

I suggest you be more firm (as in escalating your case to higher ups) in seeking a resolution. And if possible, I would take video of the crashes, as well as documenting when they occur (and under what circumstances).

Edited to add: If Apple runs their tests and nothing untoward shows, it can be very hard to narrow down the cause. And if they have the machine running while at the Genius Bar with no one using it under the same or similar conditions you do, they aren't likely to see anything happen. That is why you have to help yourself (and them) so that you can find resolution.

 

[gian8989]

Late 2015 iMac Retina 27"
Top of the line machine
4.0GHz i7
32GB 1867MHz DDR3L
1TB Flash
AMD Radeon R9 M395X w/4GB

Had the machine for about 18 months and it started crashing (as in like pulling the power plug) on 8/1/2017.
It will crash 6 times in a day then work fine for a week without an issue then start crashing again.
Worked with Apple care technical numerous times on the phone sending files, running various diagnostics, yada, yada.
Brought to the local Apple store 2x and left it several days each time, they claim it has not failed for them.
Everything came back fine on their testing.....surprise.
Absolutely nothing in any of the files that even shows there is a problem.

• Removed all peripherals, including the wired LAN.....still fails
• Removed several Apps that Apple didn't like and thought were suspect.....still fails
• Powered from a Cyberpower UPS.....even removed it from this and powered from a different outlet......still fails
• Removed 16GB 3rd party RAM Apple said was suspect........still fails
• Wiped SS HD clean and reinstalled a fresh copy of Sierra.......still fails
• It will crash just sitting at the initial setup screen after a fresh installation

Apple Store Genius Bar technical don't seem to have the patience or time to work on intermittent issues like this and after a few days they call and say it's ready for me to pickup. I asked them what they found......"it never failed for us" we can't fix anything unless we see the issue.

The thing is unpredictable........crashing 6x in one day but then may work for a week before it acts up again.
Not very happy with Apple's approach.........it's the customers issue unless we can duplicate the problem.....but yet, they don't take the time to see the issue!

Very frustrated with a top of the line $4K machine that I purchased 18-months ago along with AppleCare, but Apple won't take the time too repair it.
It's a boat anchor at this point....

Do you have windows installed in bootcamp?
Try to see if the mac crash even in windows. If that happen it means that it is an hardware problem.

 

[DeltaMac]

Intermittent problems can be the worst for a service shop, when you can't take the time to let a system fail. Many shops won't have the space to simply leave a system plugged in and powered on, just to wait for something unknown to happen.
YOU are the best path to find intermittent problems, and that can be frustrating when you just want your system to work reliably.

You said that the crash is like pulling the power plug.
Is the power really off at that point, or is it just a black screen, with power still on?
Do you lose power to any bus-powered USB devices at that time? If bus-powered devices are also off, then I suspect a power supply.

 

[Khaleal]

I had a Mac mini 2011 back in the day that would randomly restart or crash while using it. Temps weren't an issue. I've spoken with Apple several times and there was nothing they could do to fix the issue.
I learnt to live with the machine for some time, but then decided I'd upgrade the RAM from 8GB to 16GB (removed 2x4GB sticks and installed 2x8GB) and the issue suddenly disappeared. Looks like it was a RAM issue after all, although the old RAM could pass Apple test without any problem.

 

[Buerkletucson]

When the system crashes (like pulling the power plug) it is off.....it's immediate loss of power.
It will not restart with the power switch or by any other means.
When I have USB devices plugged in they lose power also.

Only way to power up again is to unplug the machine for at least 15 seconds then plug in again.......then it will power up normally.

gian8989,
It crashes after the HD is wiped clean and fresh OS install and sitting at the initial setup screen.
IMHO 99.9% it's a hardware issue.

 

[Apple_Robert]

When the system crashes (like pulling the power plug) it is off.....it's immediate loss of power.
It will not restart with the power switch or by any other means.
When I have USB devices plugged in they lose power also.

Only way to power up again is to unplug the machine for at least 15 seconds then plug in again.......then it will power up normally.

gian8989,
It crashes after the HD is wiped clean and fresh OS install and sitting at the initial setup screen.
IMHO 99.9% it's a hardware issue.

I think DeltaMac may be on to something with his post and your reply here.

 

[Buerkletucson]

YOU are the best path to find intermittent problems, and that can be frustrating when you just want your system to work reliably.

I agree....
I have been, believe me.......these things I listed in bullets below I've done on my own.
But now I'm to the point what more can I do?
Everything is disconnected from the machine, extra memory removed, HD wiped and fresh OS installed.....
and it still fails.
I need Apple to try swapping out some internal hardware.

• Removed all peripherals, including the wired LAN.....still fails

• Removed several Apps that Apple didn't like and thought were suspect.....still fails

• Powered from a Cyberpower UPS.....even removed it from this and powered from a different outlet......still fails

• Removed 16GB 3rd party RAM Apple said was suspect........still fails

• Wiped SS HD clean and reinstalled a fresh copy of Sierra.......still fails

• It will crash just sitting at the initial setup screen after a fresh installation

btw - the machine is at the Apple Store now.......I brought it back in again last night and told them I don't want it back until something is done to the machine.

 

[gian8989]

Try to install the old OS and see what happen

 

[monokakata]

Unless I've missed it, you haven't yet tried removing all the memory, then installing one stick of the Apple memory at a time. If it crashes with that stick, mark it and put it aside, then on to the next one. If it crashes with both (either) Apple sticks, then go on to the 3rd party ones, one by one.

Basically you're shooting to exclude RAM.

 

[DeltaMac]

Maybe this thread needs a subliminal suggestion

Power supply
(power supply...)
(power supply...)

 

[coreyk]

Only way to power up again is to unplug the machine for at least 15 seconds then plug in again.......then it will power up normally.

I have the same model iMac, this is how you reset the SMC. If it's the case that it won't immediately power back up, but instead you need to keep it unplugged for 15 seconds, it may be that there's some kind of issue with a component on the logic board and that's what needs to be replaced.

I had an issue with RAM failure from OWC earlier this year, but in my case my iMac wouldn't boot up at all. I tried booting with each individual stick until I found the bad one, they replaced it for free under warranty and the problem went away.

 

[joema2]

Late 2015 iMac Retina 27"...Top of the line machine....4.0GHz i7.......it started crashing (as in like pulling the power plug) on 8/1/2017...It will crash 6 times in a day then work fine for a week without an issue then start crashing again....

I had the same symptoms on the same machine. I did all the usual things: SMC and PRAM reset, re-install macOS, remove all peripherals -- it still would intermittently crash.

It passed Apple's normal diagnostics, but when the Genius Bar left it running more extensive bench diagnostics it finally crashed on an overnight test. They replaced the logic board; don't know what component was bad. It has been very reliable since then.

IMO if it is crashing, Apple must do whatever it takes to resolve this. You may have to keep applying firm diplomatic pressure.

 

[Buerkletucson]

Unless I've missed it, you haven't yet tried removing all the memory, then installing one stick of the Apple memory at a time. If it crashes with that stick, mark it and put it aside, then on to the next one. If it crashes with both (either) Apple sticks, then go on to the 3rd party ones, one by one.

Basically you're shooting to exclude RAM.

Thanks......I forgot to list that was done also.

 

[danielwsmithee]

This really sounds like either a power supply or logic board issue. I've dealt with Apple before on intermittent issues. It can be frustrating but with enough escalation and persistence they either find the solution or replace the machine. They should have some long run diagnostic tools they can run on the machine that should find these sort of issues.

 

[tgara]

Based on all the steps you've taken so far, it's either the computer power supply or it's the electrical system in your house. What area of the country do you live in? Have there been brownouts recently?

 

[DeltaMac]

Based on all the steps you've taken so far, it's either the computer power supply or it's the electrical system in your house. What area of the country do you live in? Have there been brownouts recently?

Maybe, but OP already said there were issues both while connected to a UPS, and from house power.
Still, something to rule out.

 

[Buerkletucson]

Awesome update......

A Technician from Apple called about 1-hour ago and said they were able to replicate the issue........finally!
They've been running very aggressive diagnostics and it never failed for them previously.
One of the Techs was just looking at some settings and starting/stopping some Apps and it crashed!

"BasicGreatGuy" was right.......it needs to be used more like the average user to duplicate the issue.

They are proceeding with ordering (3) parts......
Power Supply
Logic Board
1TB Flash memory

They are "confident" the issue is with the Logic board and will replace that first.
They are ordering the other parts just in case.
I asked them about it being the power supply and they said the logic board makes more sense for this type of failure. Because it requires a SMC reset after the failure plus they felt a PS issue would more than likely show other problems and not recover so quickly, they felt that was not the most probable culprit.

Hope to have the machine back late next week.
I'm a happy camper at this point!

09-Sep-17
(763) 656-5010
Genius Bar Work Authorization
Repair No: R247#####
Customer Information
Product Information
Brian ##### Warranty Status: Protection Plan (A2)
USA Model: iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015)
Date of Purchase: 19-Oct-15
Serial No: ########
Problem Description/Diagnosis
Issue: Unit was previously checked in for triage testing for intermittent shut down.
Testing in AST 2 failed to reveal any issues with unit, but shut down issue has persisted.
Customer has removed third party RAM and restored unit, but unit powered off unexpectedly during initial setup screens.
After shutdown an SMC reset is required to restart unit.

Steps to Reproduce: Ran MRI; pass

Cosmetic Condition: Unblemished.

Proposed Resolution: Ordering logic board, power supply, and flash storage for unit (CTO - all items verified in Ripley)
Run testing again in AST 2 including EFI, OS, and memory.

Please update customer with triage results and next steps.

Estimated Turn Around Time: We'll call you within 48 hours
Mac OS Version: 10.12.x
Hard Drive Size: 1000
Memory Size: 16384
iLife Version: Unknown
Contact Apple Support Case:#######

Employee 1089225100


Repair Estimate
Item Number Description Price Amount Due Customer KBB
661-03173 Logic Board, 4.0GHz, Quad Core, 4GB, i7
$ 510.23
$ 0.00
661-03524 Power Supply Unit, 300W, iMac 27”
$ 67.05
$ 0.00
661-03563 Flash Storage, 1TB, iMac 27”
$ 907.95
$ 0.00 N
S1490LL/A Hardware Repair Labor
$ 79.00
$ 0.00
Total (Tax not included)
$ 1,564.23
$ 0.00

 

[gian8989]

Awesome update......

A Technician from Apple called about 1-hour ago and said they were able to replicate the issue........finally!
They've been running very aggressive diagnostics and it never failed for them previously.
One of the Techs was just looking at some settings and starting/stopping some Apps and it crashed!

"BasicGreatGuy" was right.......it needs to be used more like the average user to duplicate the issue.

They are proceeding with ordering (3) parts......
Power Supply
Logic Board
1TB Flash memory

They are "confident" the issue is with the Logic board and will replace that first.
They are ordering the other parts just in case.
I asked them about it being the power supply and they said the logic board makes more sense for this type of failure. Because it requires a SMC reset after the failure plus they felt a PS issue would more than likely show other problems and not recover so quickly, they felt that was not the most probable culprit.

Hope to have the machine back late next week.
I'm a happy camper at this point!

Good luck!!

 

[Buerkletucson]

Just picked up my iMac last night......
Got to say they got the parts and replaced the logic board very quickly.
Also, it looks real nice......no scratches or fit issues after taking it apart.

Fingers crossed we're good to go and no unexpected shutdowns!
Restoring via Time Machine backup went well.

Thank you for visiting the Apple Store. Below is a copy of your service record.

Apple Rosedale Center
12-Sep-17
(763) 656-5010
Genius Bar Work Confirmation
Repair No: xxxxxxx
Customer Information
Product Information
Brian xxxxxx
Warranty Status: Protection Plan (A2)
USA
Model: iMac (Retina 5K, 27-inch, Late 2015)

Date of Purchase: 19-Oct-15
Serial No: xxxxxxxx
IMEI:

Parts and Services
Item Number Description Price Amount Due Customer KBB
661-03173 Logic Board, 4.0GHz, Quad Core, 4GB, i7
Replacement Serial No: C026055005HGPJHAG
$ 510.23
$ 0.00
S1490LL/A Hardware Repair Labor
$ 79.00
$ 0.00
Total (Tax Not Included)
$ 589.23
$ 0.00

 

[Buerkletucson]

Reviving this thread I started about my late-2015 iMac crashing issues as the above post did not solve the issues.......the problem came back a few weeks later.
She's been a iMac from He!! since early August 2017.
Despite the continue hassle, Apple Care has been well worth it on this machine.

I know Apple Care/support and the local Apple store employees very well at this point.
The following has been done/replaced and issue continues:

1. Verified software/APPs are not the culprit...fresh OSx installed many times and still crashed even sitting at setup screen
2. Logic Board replaced: i7 4Ghz Quad
3. Power supply replaced: 300W
4. Wireless card replaced
5. 1TB SS drive not yet replaced

Machine crashes and requires an SMC reset to come to life........no rhyme or reason as to when this happens.
Surfing, emails, running various APPS, sitting at login screen, and even at the setup screen after a fresh OSx installation.
It's crashed with Sierra and High Sierra.
It will crash 6 times in one day then work for 3-weeks before starting the same issues.......Apple has duplicated the failures in the local Apple store.

Apple has finally conceded.....
I just got off the phone with my dedicated Apple support advisor that I've dealt with since early October.
They have placed a warranty order for a brand new 2017 iMac machine to replace this machine......finally the nightmare is over!

Hi Brian R,

We’re sorry that you had issues with your product. We’re replacing your iMac, serial number 123456789, with a iMac:

4.2GHz quad-core 7th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.5GHz
16GB 2400MHz DDR4
1TB SSD
Radeon Pro 575 with 4GB video memory
Magic Mouse 2
Magic Keyboard - US English
Accessory Kit

Please acknowledge this agreement by signing below and emailing a copy back to me. We can accept files in these formats: PDF, PNG, JPG, GIF, and TIFF

If it’s more convenient, you can mail or fax a copy to my attention:

Apple, Inc.
Attn: Angie
12545 Riata Vista Circle
MS 185-SPS
Austin, TX 78727

Fax: 866-672-5929

We appreciate your support of Apple products and thank you for providing us this opportunity to assist you.

Sincerely,

Angie


______________________________________________ (Signature)
BRIAN X XXXXX


______________________________________________ (Date)

 

[AL2TEACH]

Reviving this thread I started about my late-2015 iMac crashing issues as the above post did not solve the issues.......the problem came back a few weeks later.
She's been a iMac from He!! since early August 2017.
Despite the continue hassle, Apple Care has been well worth it on this machine.

I know Apple Care/support and the local Apple store employees very well at this point.
The following has been done/replaced and issue continues:

1. Verified software/APPs are not the culprit...fresh OSx installed many times and still crashed even sitting at setup screen
2. Logic Board replaced: i7 4Ghz Quad
3. Power supply replaced: 300W
4. Wireless card replaced
5. 1TB SS drive not yet replaced

Machine crashes and requires an SMC reset to come to life........no rhyme or reason as to when this happens.
Surfing, emails, running various APPS, sitting at login screen, and even at the setup screen after a fresh OSx installation.
It's crashed with Sierra and High Sierra.
It will crash 6 times in one day then work for 3-weeks before starting the same issues.......Apple has duplicated the failures in the local Apple store.

Apple has finally conceded.....
I just got off the phone with my dedicated Apple support advisor that I've dealt with since early October.
They have placed a warranty order for a brand new 2017 iMac machine to replace this machine......finally the nightmare is over!

now that's a happy ending, did you get an iMac Pro? kidding

 

[Buerkletucson]

now that's a happy ending, did you get an iMac Pro? kidding

LOL...
Nope, but they sure did not skimp on the new 2017 system......matching and in most cases exceeding every spec on my 2015 machine. They replace everything including keyboard and mouse.
Nice thing about this is Apple assigned me a dedicated upper level support person as your only contact. They are your sole contact and handle everything. The person I was assigned has been great and pushed to get me a new system with better hardware.....even going out of his way to do things that aren't normal protocol.
He is even maxing out my RAM and throwing in a few other goodies, once the new machine is delivered.
Should be here next week....

 

[gian8989]

LOL...
Nope, but they sure did not skimp on the new 2017 system......matching and in most cases exceeding every spec on my 2015 machine. They replace everything including keyboard and mouse.
Nice thing about this is Apple assigned me a dedicated upper level support person as your only contact. They are your sole contact and handle everything. The person I was assigned has been great and pushed to get me a new system with better hardware.....even going out of his way to do things that aren't normal protocol.
He is even maxing out my RAM and throwing in a few other goodies, once the new machine is delivered.
Should be here next week....

I hope i won't have deal with all this but it is nice to know that they can offer this kind of support.
Apple care on such expensive machine is never wasted money. Moreover changing the iMac for a new one is what they should do if they can't fix the problem quickly. Not all people use it for gaming purpouse and not all have a spare computer.