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ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,340
8,918
Toronto, ON
Mojave installed well and worked for a day or two with no issue then suddenly, it rebooted and has been in that boot sequence forever.

I looked at the boot sequence in Verbose mode and it looks like some boot files are missing.

I tried reinstalling macOS but it just reboots at some point.

I tried wiping the drive and it does the same. It appears that Mojave corrupted the FusionDrive container.

I can get to DiskUtility in Recovery Mode but erasing the drive from there boots the machine. The Terminal is the only stable way to look at the state of the drive but I know very little about the command line.

I booked a Genius appointment but the first one is on Sunday, a week from now. I’m going to try to rebuild the Fusion Drive in the meantime.

Any suggestions?
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,294
13,406
My advice:

Get some kind of EXTERNAL drive:
- external USB hard drive
- even a USB flashdrive will do IF it's 32gb or larger

Boot to INTERNET recovery (NOT the recovery partition).
Press the power-on button and hold down "command-option-R" until the internet symbol appears. You may need to enter your wifi password (unless you're connected via ethernet).

When you get to the installer, QUIT it.
Open Disk Utility.
Erase the external drive to Mac OS extended with journaling enabled (NOT to APFS).

Close DU and reopen the installer.
See if you can "direct" the installer to install a clean copy of the OS onto the external drive.

If that works, the installer will do its thing and you'll be greeted by the setup assistant (running on your external drive).
Set up a basic account.

Now you have an EXTERNAL, bootable drive.
You can boot the Mac and work on it WITHOUT BOOTING FROM THE INTERNAL DRIVE.

To boot from the external drive, press the power-on button and hold down the option key CONTINUOUSLY until the startup manager appears.
Then select the external drive with the pointer and hit return.

I'd suggest you re-install an OS -other than- Mojave to "get going again".
 
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ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,340
8,918
Toronto, ON
So, I think I'm closer to discovering the issue. The SSD half of the Fusion Drive is failing. The HDD half is fine. But because Disk Utility sees them as one drive, I'm unable to write to the drive, even to erase it.

My goal now is to split them so that I can use the internal HDD and ignore the failing SSD.

I've been able to go into Terminal to look at what's up. I've attempted to split the FusionDrive but when doing diskutil corestorage list, it reports as having No CoreStorage logical groups available. When I do a regular disktutil list, it does show both drives and a third synthesized drive, the FusionDrive.

Is there a brute force way to erase a drive in Terminal? How do I discover the UID for a drive? I can try erasing the HDD portion and that should break up the FusionDrive.

Any command line geniuses out here?
[doublepost=1534785209][/doublepost]Made a little progress. I was able to find my FusionDrive's UID in System Report (I booted from an external drive).

I attempted to delete the FusionDrive via its UID and it reports back that there are no FusionDrives.

So the situation is that the system both knows that there's a Fusion Drive (it's listed as a synthesized drive) and at the same time thinks that there are no FusionDrives. I'm stuck in limbo.

The only way I that I know that might work would be to physically remove the hard drive and format it by itself, breaking the FusionDrive link. But this is an iMac and that's a very complex physical repair.

I guess, all I can think of is to ask whether there are alternative ways to break a FusionDrive apart from the command line. Another option would be if it were possible to shut the SSD off from the command line. Is there a way to shut off a SATA connection?
 

ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,340
8,918
Toronto, ON
Wow... I found the solution. I deleted the APFS container with the following command:

diskutil apfs deleteContainer disk1s2 Macintosh

I can't believe it worked. It deleted the FusionDrive container and created 2 separate drives. The SSD has a S.M.A.R.T. warning and the internal spinning HDD seems fine. I'll now be able to theoretically install macOS on that internal HDD.

Note: I spoke with an Apple genius who was really nice but wouldn't go into Terminal commands with me. If I had taken it in, most likely they would have offered to replace the hard drive that I'd have to pay. Turns out, my intuition was right. I'm glad that there's a mature underground support system or I'd never have figured this out.
 
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Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,294
13,406
IF the SSD portion of the fusion drive is failing,
and
IF the HDD portion of the fusion drive is good,
then
I'd suggest this alternative approach:

Let the dead SSD drive be. Just leave it "dead in place" and ignore it.

Do continue to use the HDD portion, but...

... Buy a modest-sized USB3 SSD (such as the Samsung t5 in either 256gb or 512gb size), and set it up to become an EXTERNAL boot drive.

Don't be intimidated by this, it's little more than child's play on a Mac.

The iMac will run MUCH faster, and you'll still have the working internal HDD for storage of things that don't need to be "on the boot drive".
 

matreya

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,286
127
I would, at this point, recommend getting an external SSD like the Samsung T5 and running your OS off that.
 
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ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,340
8,918
Toronto, ON
Is USB as fast as SATA? Won’t running the OS from an external be much slower since it has to go through USB rather than an internal SATA connection?

My iMac is a Late 2012 so USB is 2.0, not 3, though I do have some Thunderbolt ports that might be faster than the USB route.
 

matreya

macrumors 65816
Nov 14, 2009
1,286
127
Since you have Thunderbolt and USB 2.0, of course, Thunderbolt will be better, but more expensive.
 

drlunanerd

macrumors 68000
Feb 14, 2004
1,698
179
Is USB as fast as SATA? Won’t running the OS from an external be much slower since it has to go through USB rather than an internal SATA connection?

My iMac is a Late 2012 so USB is 2.0, not 3, though I do have some Thunderbolt ports that might be faster than the USB route.

2012 iMacs are USB 3...
 
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ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,340
8,918
Toronto, ON
Wow. I’m still in shock. I managed to fix it.

Apple Support wrote it off as hopeless. I was told they needed to open up the iMac and replace the HDD but the first appointment at an Apple Store was over a week from now plus whatever time would be needed to repair it.

I couldn’t be without a work computer for that long so I contacted nearby Apple certified repair shops. They charge $150/hour plus parts. I was looking at the price of a new Mac Mini at best.

But I stuck to my guns and my intuition told me that it was a corrupted FusionDrive, not a broken harddrive. I can’t believe I did it.
 

verdejt

macrumors 6502
Jul 19, 2011
363
110
Central Florida
OWC has excellent repair videos for the iMac including the tool kits needed. if you are feeling froggy check them out and install an internal SSD.
 
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burgman

macrumors 68030
Sep 24, 2013
2,803
2,387
Wow. I’m still in shock. I managed to fix it.

Apple Support wrote it off as hopeless. I was told they needed to open up the iMac and replace the HDD but the first appointment at an Apple Store was over a week from now plus whatever time would be needed to repair it.

I couldn’t be without a work computer for that long so I contacted nearby Apple certified repair shops. They charge $150/hour plus parts. I was looking at the price of a new Mac Mini at best.

But I stuck to my guns and my intuition told me that it was a corrupted FusionDrive, not a broken harddrive. I can’t believe I did it.
There are different definitions of "fixed" You came up with a work around for a dead HHD section. It's not "fixed" in the classic sense. But if this works for you ok. You still need to replace the internal drive to have it back to factory working order, which is what the repair shops would do.
 

Fishrrman

macrumors Penryn
Feb 20, 2009
29,294
13,406
OP wrote (in reply 10 above):
"But I stuck to my guns and my intuition told me that it was a corrupted FusionDrive, not a broken harddrive. I can’t believe I did it."

So... what are your conclusions?
Is the SSD portion of the fusion drive... dead, no longer working?
Is the HDD portion still good, still working?

If you're "up and running" from the HDD, you might try erasing the SSD and then testing it using Disk Utility.
What results does DU give?
Can the SSD be "revived"? Or... no?

Again, if you're booting and running right now from the HDD, please re-read the advice I gave in reply 5 above.

Someone else said you have USB3 on a late 2012 iMac.
Everymac.com confirms USB3 on the late 2012 iMacs.

If this is the case, again, you will be amazed at the performance boost you get by booting and running from an external USB3 SSD.

Get a modest sized Samsung t5 (even 256gb will be fine).
It will be WORTH THE MONEY SPENT.
 

gabeboisvert

macrumors newbie
Jun 14, 2016
15
6
Mojave installed well and worked for a day or two with no issue then suddenly, it rebooted and has been in that boot sequence forever.

I looked at the boot sequence in Verbose mode and it looks like some boot files are missing.

I tried reinstalling macOS but it just reboots at some point.

I tried wiping the drive and it does the same. It appears that Mojave corrupted the FusionDrive container.

I can get to DiskUtility in Recovery Mode but erasing the drive from there boots the machine. The Terminal is the only stable way to look at the state of the drive but I know very little about the command line.

I booked a Genius appointment but the first one is on Sunday, a week from now. I’m going to try to rebuild the Fusion Drive in the meantime.

Any suggestions?

My iMac was bricked with endless loop as well this morning after a reboot (on latest beta) and I couldn't even access the restore features. It had to take it to Apple today and their machine can't even read it!
 

ipedro

macrumors 603
Original poster
Nov 30, 2004
6,340
8,918
Toronto, ON
My iMac was bricked with endless loop as well this morning after a reboot (on latest beta) and I couldn't even access the restore features. It had to take it to Apple today and their machine can't even read it!

I found that macOS couldn't write to the hard drive and that would crash it every time. I too wasn't able to get access to the recovery mode because the Mac wouldn't recognize my bluetooth keyboard in time. I unplugged it for 15 seconds, it then started recognizing the keyboard some of the times. I was able to reset PRAM by using CMD+Option+P+R (hold it and keep holding while it reboots and you hear the startup sound twice). If you have a USB keyboard, use that instead. It's more reliable.

I don't know if this is your issue as well but what fixed it for me was splitting my Fusion Drive. The SSD was corrupted and failing, holding back its internal HDD sibling. Once split, the HDD worked fine to install macOS.

If your keyboard is recognized, try holding CMD+Option+R to boot into internet restore where your iMac will connect to Apple's servers and download very limited code to at least get you Disk Utility and from there, allow you to reinstall macOS.

Another alternative if you have another Mac would be to hold T on startup to go into Target mode. Connecting your working Mac to your broken iMac will give you access to your hard drive where you'll be able to try to save any unbacked files and then wipe your iMac's hard drive and reinstall macOS after that.
[doublepost=1534883495][/doublepost]
OP wrote (in reply 10 above):
"But I stuck to my guns and my intuition told me that it was a corrupted FusionDrive, not a broken harddrive. I can’t believe I did it."

So... what are your conclusions?
Is the SSD portion of the fusion drive... dead, no longer working?
Is the HDD portion still good, still working?

Yes. The SSD was failing and since macOS uses it for core system files, at one point, the SSD failed to write a system file and crashed the system. When it automatically rebooted, macOS was no longer able to write and it went into an endless loop.

If you're "up and running" from the HDD, you might try erasing the SSD and then testing it using Disk Utility.
What results does DU give?
Can the SSD be "revived"? Or... no?


After splitting them, both the HDD and the SSD are writeable. The SSD still shows a S.M.A.R.T. warning. I won't use it for anything sensitive but I'm thinking of using it as my Photoshop and Final Cut Pro scratch disk. If it fails, the most I'll lose is some work since the last save and the app might crash.

Again, if you're booting and running right now from the HDD, please re-read the advice I gave in reply 5 above.

Someone else said you have USB3 on a late 2012 iMac.
Everymac.com confirms USB3 on the late 2012 iMacs.

If this is the case, again, you will be amazed at the performance boost you get by booting and running from an external USB3 SSD.

Get a modest sized Samsung t5 (even 256gb will be fine).
It will be WORTH THE MONEY SPENT

I'm going to consider doing what you suggested but right now, I'm just milking my 6 year old iMac until the last drop before buying my next iMac, likely an iMac Pro. I'd rather put all money towards that.

The iMac without the SSD is in fact noticeably slower, specially at waking from sleep but it does get the job done. I haven't installed Mojave yet, but I did notice it was way faster than Sierra, even running off an external spinning disk drive. Mojave apparently delivers on Apple's performance claim. If that works, I should be ok until the next update to the iMac Pro is released in a year or so.
 
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