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iMac (late 2009 w/High Sierra) RAM question

G

grwren

macrumors member
Original poster
May 11, 2020
47
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Hi. I have a late 2009 imac with 8gb ram. If I double the ram will it help it boot any faster or will it just speed up the general overall respond of the machine? Or will it likely be a waist of money and do neither? What would be the most likely result?

Any questions or advice would be appreciated so thanks in advance.
 
This model must have a mechanical hard drive in it. Swapping the HDD for a SSD would be your best bang for the buck, but requires disassembly of the whole iMac. Memory will only help if you are already saturating (see Activity Monitor).

It's an 11 years old computer ... You can't do miracle unfortunately. But an SSD could make it breath a bit more.
 
8GB RAM is plenty for that machine. I think software which needs more RAM will be to demanding for that CPU anyways.

An SSD will makes the biggest difference. That's what's I put in my 2009. It runs Catalina fine with the DOSDUDE1 patch.
 
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Thank you both for your responses. Pretty much what I expected but wasn't sure. As this unit seldom if ever sees yellow on the Memory/Acitivity Monitor and only very, very rarely has it ever been red I guess I'll save the ram money and put it towards a possible SSD up grade. Thanks again.
 
More RAM will give no significant boost to boot times. It could provide a boost to other software but right now it is not the main bottleneck.*

A FireWire 800 SSD would give a moderate boost to performance. I speak from experience. The drive enclosures still exist out there, although if you went this route, one with the option of DC power is recommended.

But yeah, the best solution is to replace the HD with SSD.

*If you ever see red, then you probably do need more RAM. More RAM wouldn’t hurt regardless, as it is used to cache applications, so that would speed up app reloads by a huge amount.
 
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EugW said:
*If you ever see red, then you probably do need more RAM. More RAM wouldn’t hurt regardless, as it is used to cache applications, so that would speed up app reloads by a huge amount.
Click to expand...

As I mentioned, very (x3) seldom do I ever see red or even yellow for that matter! And if I see either I just close something and that generally takes care of the problem.

Other than a longish boot time of approx. 75-90 seconds the hdd appears to have no problems, still way faster than my win10 hp laptop but no where close to an old hp laptop w/Linux Mate @ 20-30 seconds. However, the DriveDx overall health report causes concerns because it bounces between Average & Low, keeping and eye on it.

Thank you.
 
velocityg4 said:
8GB RAM is plenty for that machine. I think software which needs more RAM will be to demanding for that CPU anyways.

An SSD will makes the biggest difference. That's what's I put in my 2009. It runs Catalina fine with the DOSDUDE1 patch.
Click to expand...
Since you don't know how the OP is using the machine, that pronouncement is a blind guess and, as such, is meaningless.

My 2010 that I didn't give up till last year was barely functional and often froze till I maxed it out with 32GB RAM and then it was great. But I'm not the OP and neither are you. The late 2009 & 2010 are nearly identical save for a third SATA II bus in the 2010.

Back to the OP.More RAM may have advantages but faster boot time is not one of them.

These are an easy DIY to replace with an SSD but, besides the drive, you'll need to replace the temp sensor and an adapter bracket is recommended. All inexpensive and you'll wonder why you waited so long. If not great with tools and following instructions, consider having it done and here's why: The NV RAM battery is on the back of the motherboard and after 11 years, it's way, way past time for its replacement. A bad battery will cause you display issues including black screen—inexperienced techs and armchair experts around here will go on about GPU problems — all that over a $3 CR2032 battery you can get at the drug store. Apple uses a high-heat BR2032 but with the mechanical hard drive gone, the need for a heat resistant battery goes away, too. Labor around here (Silicon Valley) to replace the battery averages $75 and replacing the HDD with an SSD at the same time normally doesn't add to the cost (takes an extra 2 minutes for an experienced tech). Only the late 2009–2010 have the battery on the back. Earlier and later have it accessible under the screen. An optical temp sensor taped to the SSD works great and is a lot less expensive than the $40 OWC temp sensor for the 2009–2010.

The faster boot time will blow you away.
 
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mikehalloran said:
Since you don't know how the OP is using the machine, that pronouncement is a blind guess and, as such, is meaningless.

My 2010 that I didn't give up till last year was barely functional and often froze till I maxed it out with 32GB RAM and then it was great. But I'm not the OP and neither are you. The late 2009 & 2010 are nearly identical save for a third SATA II bus in the 2010.

Back to the OP.More RAM may have advantages but faster boot time is not one of them.

These are an easy DIY to replace with an SSD but, besides the drive, you'll need to replace the temp sensor and an adapter bracket is recommended. All inexpensive and you'll wonder why you waited so long. If not great with tools and following instructions, consider having it done and here's why: The NV RAM battery is on the back of the motherboard and after 11 years, it's way, way past time for its replacement. A bad battery will cause you display issues including black screen—inexperienced techs and armchair experts around here will go on about GPU problems — all that over a $3 CR2032 battery you can get at the drug store. Apple uses a high-heat BR2032 but with the mechanical hard drive gone, the need for a heat resistant battery goes away, too. Labor around here (Silicon Valley) to replace the battery averages $75 and replacing the HDD with an SSD at the same time normally doesn't add to the cost (takes an extra 2 minutes for an experienced tech). Only the late 2009–2010 have the battery on the back. Earlier and later have it accessible under the screen. An optical temp sensor taped to the SSD works great and is a lot less expensive than the $40 OWC temp sensor for the 2009–2010.

The faster boot time will blow you away.
Click to expand...
The Op asked what will speed up boot times. An SSD will do that.
 
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mikehalloran said:
These are an easy DIY to replace with an SSD but, besides the drive, you'll need to replace the temp sensor and an adapter bracket is recommended.
Click to expand...

Thanks. As I'm retired my comp. use is fairly low comparatively speaking, general comp. stuff, i.e., email, internet, photos, music, this kinda stuff, etc. But I wouldn't mind it booting faster. I'm considering this owc kit, https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/KITIM09HE500/#owctabs (possibly the 1tb but doubt it), which includes a temp sensor cable. Can the temp. sensor from the hdd (there is one, right?) be saved & re-used or will I have to buy a new one?
 
grwren said:
Thanks. As I'm retired my comp. use is fairly low comparatively speaking, general comp. stuff, i.e., email, internet, photos, music, this kinda stuff, etc. But I wouldn't mind it booting faster. I'm considering this owc kit, https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/KITIM09HE500/#owctabs (possibly the 1tb but doubt it), which includes a temp sensor cable. Can the temp. sensor from the hdd (there is one, right?) be saved & re-used or will I have to buy a new one?
Click to expand...
You can't reuse the old sensor—there were two (WD & Seagate) and they plugged into the original hard drives. On the 2009-10, you can use an optical drive sensor instead. My 2010 has the OWC sensor and it's worked great for many years.

Optical drive temp sensor

The problem with the software solutions that let you control the temperature manually is that, now you would have to. That plus the noise of the fan at full speed before the extension loads is why I recommend avoiding that crapware.

The kit price isn't bad, actually, and includes everything you need except the CR2032 battery which you get anywhere. Figure a 500GB SSD at $60, the adapter @ $12, tools $15–$20 and so on.

I can't find a specific guide for replacing the battery but once you have the screen off, it's not hard to figure out the rest of the steps. The back side looks like this:
RtleElT3y6ZU3jGR


A tip. Get a bottle of white out. Put a mark on each on one side of each little connector and its mate before disconnecting. It's easy to get something backwards on reassembly without something to mark polarity.
 
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mikehalloran said:
If not great with tools and following instructions, consider having it done and here's why: The NV RAM battery is on the back of the motherboard and after 11 years, it's way, way past time for its replacement.
Click to expand...

Thanks for bringing up the NV RAM battery thing, never crossed my mind & first mention I've seen of it. But, REALLY???
You have GOT to be S..T..G me! REALLY??? :eek: I've found this and other "how to's" & video (kinda funny actually) on replacing the battery: https://www.ifixit.com/Guide/iMac+Intel+21.5Inch+EMC+2308+PRAM+Battery+Replacement/1970

&


Up until this point I was becoming pretty well impressed with Apple/macs engineering! But this, this? :eek: What did the Apple engineers do, sit around a table drinking what ever and decided they'd make this thing as f..k..g impossible to repair as humanly possible? This thing is made like an appliance or something one might bought 40+ years ago before the move to make things more easily manufacturer able & repairable!

Just to replace a battery! Oh well, at least now I know what might be in store for me if & when I decide to do this! Good thing I'm retired I guess!

Thank you.
 
grwren said:
Thanks for bringing up the NV RAM battery thing, never crossed my mind & first mention I've seen of it. But, REALLY???
…
What did the Apple engineers do, sit around a table drinking what ever and decided they'd make this thing as f..k..g impossible to repair as humanly possible? This thing is made like an appliance or something one might bought 40+ years ago before the move to make things more easily manufacturer able & repairable!

Just to replace a battery! Oh well, at least now I know what might be in store for me if & when I decide to do this! Good thing I'm retired I guess!

Thank you.
Click to expand...
Well, in 2011, they put it back on the front where it can be replaced easily. But yea… I agree.

Thing is a bad battery doesn't just lose the settings like on the Beige G3 and earlier. Since the B&W G3, it messes up the GPU. I've no idea how much money has peen spent on GPU issues because the BR2032 was too low. Heck, if it was missing or stone cold, the GPU would be unaffected and the symptom would be that the iMac can't remember its settings.
 
mikehalloran said:
Labor around here (Silicon Valley) to replace the battery averages $75 and replacing the HDD with an SSD at the same time normally doesn't add to the cost (takes an extra 2 minutes for an experienced tech). Only the late 2009–2010 have the battery on the back.
Click to expand...

That $75 is for an imac w/the battery in front, not back, right? I've been quoted $150-$200 (Athens, GA), if you can even find someone (some are reluctant because they say they are having a hard time getting replacement parts, i.e. cables, screws, clips, glass panel, etc. from Apple because of Covid 19 restrictions, or they just don't want too!), for mine w/the battery in back, several hours labor so guess I can see how it might be more!

Would you mind doing me one favor? Would take quick look at these two upgrade kits and tell me if you think they both include the thermal sensor with the cable? Looks like it might be a sensor too me but the OWC site, under Includes, seems to indicate it's just a cable but both cables look nearly the same:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/KITIM09HE500/

&

www.ifixit.com

iMac Intel 21.5" and 27" (Late 2009-Mid 2010) SSD Upgrade Kit

Upgrade the storage and improve boot time and read/write speed in your iMac Intel 21" and 27" Late 2009-Mid 2010 with this SSD upgrade kit.
www.ifixit.com www.ifixit.com

Appreciate all of your input!
 
grwren said:
That $75 is for an imac w/the battery in front, not back, right? I've been quoted $150-$200 (Athens, GA), if you can even find someone (some are reluctant because they say they are having a hard time getting replacement parts, i.e. cables, screws, clips, glass panel, etc. from Apple because of Covid 19 restrictions, or they just don't want too!), for mine w/the battery in back, several hours labor so guess I can see how it might be more!

Would you mind doing me one favor? Would take quick look at these two upgrade kits and tell me if you think they both include the thermal sensor with the cable? Looks like it might be a sensor too me but the OWC site, under Includes, seems to indicate it's just a cable but both cables look nearly the same:

https://eshop.macsales.com/item/OWC/KITIM09HE500/

&

www.ifixit.com

iMac Intel 21.5" and 27" (Late 2009-Mid 2010) SSD Upgrade Kit

Upgrade the storage and improve boot time and read/write speed in your iMac Intel 21" and 27" Late 2009-Mid 2010 with this SSD upgrade kit.
www.ifixit.com www.ifixit.com

Appreciate all of your input!
Click to expand...
Both have the correct OWC temp sensor for the late 209–2010. One adds a USB drive enclosure for the old drive which can be useful.
 
mikehalloran said:
Both have the correct OWC temp sensor for the late 209–2010. One adds a USB drive enclosure for the old drive which can be useful.
Click to expand...

Thanks for confirming that there is a sensor included and for also pointing out that ifixit includes the usb enclosure. But @ $50+ difference that makes for a pretty expensive enclosure as I can get one from Amazon for $8, 10 or so.

Unless, possibly there is some significant difference in ssd drive quality to justify the $$ difference. I'm not familiar with the Mercury ssd drive, any thoughts on possible quality differences between the Crucial & Mercury ssd drives?

As always, appreciate your thoughts.
 
A Crucial MX500 has a 5 year warranty. The OWC may be 3 years only — I haven't checked that specific model. Both companies have excellent warranty service—I've used both over the years.

A 2009 iMac has a SATA II bus. Performance of either drive will be identical.
 
mikehalloran said:
A Crucial MX500 has a 5 year warranty. The OWC may be 3 years only — I haven't checked that specific model. Both companies have excellent warranty service—I've used both over the years.

A 2009 iMac has a SATA II bus. Performance of either drive will be identical.
Click to expand...

Thanks. The OWC/Mercury is probably fine then, after all it's an 11yo imac, how much longer will it run anyway? At this point it's all about the $$! So much so that I may even take a shot at changing the battery myself because of this video I found on youtube, not nearly as cayotic as the other:

Regarding the usb docking station, I bought the Inateck version a few years ago, still works well & use it occasionally. Well, as we've probably hashed this topic about enough and I think I've got the info I need to move forward with a plan for the imac, it's probably time to move on. So, with that I want thank you and all the other participants, velocityg4, eugw & pldelisle for all of your input. For a newbie to the imac & mac world it's been a great help & much appreciated.

Thanks again! 🙏
 
mikehalloran said:
Don’t forget to use some whiteout to mark the polarity of the connectors. Trust me on this one. Nothing like putting it all together and having the fans roar at full speed because you forced one sensor connection to assemble backwards.
Click to expand...

I don't have a white out to mark. I used paper tape as stickers and write the numbers on them. Would have been a mess without the tape. Thanks for the advice.
 
grwren said:
Hi. I have a late 2009 imac with 8gb ram. If I double the ram will it help it boot any faster or will it just speed up the general overall respond of the machine? Or will it likely be a waist of money and do neither? What would be the most likely result?

Any questions or advice would be appreciated so thanks in advance.
Click to expand...

Adding more RAM wouldn't hurt but it is an 11 year old computer.

Rather than sinking money into it, consider using the money towards a newer computer.
 
grwren said:
Thanks. The OWC/Mercury is probably fine then, after all it's an 11yo imac, how much longer will it run anyway? At this point it's all about the $$! So much so that I may even take a shot at changing the battery myself because of this video I found on youtube, not nearly as cayotic as the other:

Regarding the usb docking station, I bought the Inateck version a few years ago, still works well & use it occasionally. Well, as we've probably hashed this topic about enough and I think I've got the info I need to move forward with a plan for the imac, it's probably time to move on. So, with that I want thank you and all the other participants, velocityg4, eugw & pldelisle for all of your input. For a newbie to the imac & mac world it's been a great help & much appreciated.

Thanks again! 🙏
Click to expand...
Hey, just curious how this project turned out?!?! I'm sitting on an iMac 27-Inch "Core 2 Duo" 3.06 (Late 2009) and I'm an Apple newbie as well. This Mac wouldnt boot, after sitting stagnant for almost a year, so I took it to a local computer shop and they installed a new hard drive. It works but I can tell that it is "overwhelmed" with all the new, updated computation that Apple forces on it. Unfortunately I didnt take the effort to have a far superior SSD installed, I just told the guy to get it running at cheap cost. But, now, I just hate to toss this beautiful 27inch pristine display to the side! I have minimal dollars invested for what I have gained....so, I'm following several "iMac threads" to get a perspective on this desktop's future!
Enlighten me, did the project go as planned?
 
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