Image IQ what would you pick?

[Apple fanboy]

So I have a day shooting on Saturday at Knowsley Safari Park. It's a Safari Photography Masterclass.

They suggest a zoom up to 300 mm as well as shorter focal lengths for some of the exhibits. So as it's going to be a long day, I'm trying to decide what gear to take. I'm fine on the shorter stuff, but it kind of got me thinking about what to use for my best reach. Gear I have
D750
D7100
70-200 mm f2.8
70-300 mm 4.5-5.6
2 x TC (which doesn't fit the 70-300).

So obviously the cropped sensor D7100 with the 70-200 mm combined with the TC will give me the longest reach, but what is going to give me the best compromise of reach and IQ?
So I rather hurriedly took some snaps of a bird feeder this evening with my various options. These are all rather dull and un-edited, but may help get some feedback. All shot at maximum zoom.

 

[Apple fanboy]

(sorry couldn't upload 6 j-pegs).
What you notice is despite the massive difference in price between this gear, but to me the IQ is not all that different.
So what would you use?

I'm thinking the D7100 with the 70-300 mm and the D750 with the 70-200 mm. I'll keep the TC in the bag incase I find I'm further from the action than expected.

 

[Cheese&Apple]

I'm thinking the D7100 with the 70-300 mm and the D750 with the 70-200 mm. I'll keep the TC in the bag incase I find I'm further from the action than expected.

This sounds right to me.

Don't forget to factor-in lighting conditions. I'm sure you know time of day and at this point you can try to anticipate weather conditions.

For low light the D750 with the 70-200 will be your best choice for sure. It should also be your best choice for image quality.

I'm guessing that you could be photographing fairly large animals so reach may not be that critical. You may have a chance for some good environmental shots that you don't need any reach for and with a 24MP body you'll have decent cropping room.

The D7100 with the 70-300 may get you some interesting close-up (eyeball type) shots.

Have fun AFB…looking forward to seeing your shots.

~ Peter

 

[JDDavis]

If my math is correct the D7100 + 70-300 5.6 and the D750 +2xTC + 70-200 2.8 will give you the exact same max focal length and aperture (400mm @5.6). If that's correct then I'd lean much more heavily on the D750 because the AF will be better at max zoom and the ISO will be much better and will more than compensate for the 5.6.

Edit: Interestingly...I have it in my head as a rule of thumb that most lenses are sharpest at 2x their max aperture (5.6 for a f/2.8 lens). I can't remember where I read that. Is that a real thing or did I make that up?

I would think the D750 + 70-200 2.8 (and the TC when you need it) will clearly give you the best compromise of everything. Plus if you are willing to crop (and plan for it in your shot) you will be able to pull in even closer with the D750.

 

[Apple fanboy]

If my math is correct the D7100 + 70-300 5.6 and the D750 +2xTC + 70-200 2.8 will give you the exact same max focal length and aperture (400mm @5.6). If that's correct then I'd lean much more heavily on the D750 because the AF will be better at max zoom and the ISO will be much better and will more than compensate for the 5.6.

Edit: Interestingly...I have it in my head as a rule of thumb that most lenses are sharpest at 2x their max aperture (5.6 for a f/2.8 lens). I can't remember where I read that. Is that a real thing or did I make that up?

I would think the D750 + 70-200 2.8 (and the TC when you need it) will clearly give you the best compromise of everything. Plus if you are willing to crop (and plan for it in your shot) you will be able to pull in even closer with the D750.

And looking at the first and last images, yes your math looks bang on!

Generally I try to keep cropping to a minimum. But yes I'll have some wiggle room in there.
Keeping the 70-300 mm on the D7100 is a fairly light set up, so I can keep that one primed and ready to go whilst using the D750 and the 70-200 mm as my primary camera.

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This sounds right to me.

Don't forget to factor-in lighting conditions. I'm sure you know time of day and at this point you can try to anticipate weather conditions.

For low light the D750 with the 70-200 will be your best choice for sure. It should also be your best choice for image quality.

I'm guessing that you could be photographing fairly large animals so reach may not be that critical. You may have a chance for some good environmental shots that you don't need any reach for and with a 24MP body you'll have decent cropping room.

The D7100 with the 70-300 may get you some interesting close-up (eyeball type) shots.

Have fun AFB…looking forward to seeing your shots.

~ Peter

I'm sure it will be fun. Just hope to get some decent images out of it. Supposedly I should get better access than just turning up. But I guess we will wait and see.

 

[kenoh]

Sounds like great fun. Looking forward to seeing some images.

 

[acearchie]

IQ won't be hugely noticeable on compressed JPEG uploads.

If you can avoid shooting wide open then the different should be negligible. The super zooms from canon and nikon are very good, they just lack that low light aperture that everyone ends up needing! Use then stopped down and there are on the surface just as sharp!

Good luck!

 

[JDDavis]

And looking at the first and last images, yes your math looks bang on!

Generally I try to keep cropping to a minimum. But yes I'll have some wiggle room in there.
Keeping the 70-300 mm on the D7100 is a fairly light set up, so I can keep that one primed and ready to go whilst using the D750 and the 70-200 mm as my primary camera.

After looking closely at the images above I think the the D750 + 2xTC + 70-200 is the most visually pleasing for the reach it gives you (140 - 400mm). The D750 with the 70-300 did surprisingly well too. Since I've been doing public math...the D7100 with the 70-200 and 2XTC should give you 600mm. That's pretty impressive But....wait....that would really be the same as simply cropping the D750-TC-70-200 shot by the APS-C crop factor . Either way...if there are two cameras for me to chose from and as long as one of them is not a D810 then I'm picking up the D750.

I try to crop as little as I can also. But I was amazed at how much you can crop with the D750 and still have a great image (the key of course is a well exposed and in focus image). Granted I came from a D90 so I can crop a D750 image 50% and still be at the D90 image size. It has given me the freedom to go ahead and take that wildlife shot even though I have the 24-85 on knowing I might still have a useful shot even after cropping in. In the end, reaching with the lens is better than cropping.

Enjoy the trip and the class. Sounds really interesting.

 

[v3rlon]

I would say take the D750, 70-200 2.8 and "zoom with your feet," but that is only part of it.

The full text of it is "Zoom with your feet when possible EXCEPT when you could be eaten by lions." As safari implies creatures that might eat you, that 70-200 with a 2xTC should cover most of what you want.

That is 400 (70-200 with TC) against 450 for the 70-300 (TC doesn't fit) on the D7100, so call it a wash.

You could carry the D7100 and the 2xTC on the body just move the 70-200 between them figuring that if you need the reach, you need lots. That also gets you a back-up body if you are paranoid.

But really, the d7100 is almost exactly like cropping the D750 down, but without the great ISO range of the D750.

 

[Apple fanboy]

I would say take the D750, 70-200 2.8 and "zoom with your feet," but that is only part of it.

The full text of it is "Zoom with your feet when possible EXCEPT when you could be eaten by lions." As safari implies creatures that might eat you, that 70-200 with a 2xTC should cover most of what you want.

That is 400 (70-200 with TC) against 450 for the 70-300 (TC doesn't fit) on the D7100, so call it a wash.

You could carry the D7100 and the 2xTC on the body just move the 70-200 between them figuring that if you need the reach, you need lots. That also gets you a back-up body if you are paranoid.

But really, the d7100 is almost exactly like cropping the D750 down, but without the great ISO range of the D750.

I've just packed my bag ready to go.
D750 with 70-200 f2.8
D7100 with 70-300 f3.5-5.6
In the bag
2 x TC
105mm macro f2.8
SB900 flash gun
4 x 32gb SD cards.
Really looking forward to it.

 

[Apple fanboy]

So I had a great day yesterday. If anybody has the opportunity to do something similar, I'd say go for it.

So how does it differ from just going to a safari park? Well we were driven around in a 4x4 which meant we didn't have to stick to the tracks. Also as the guy worked there we could open our windows at times, even when driving in the lion enclosure. This really helped with the IQ.
Also before the park opened we were able to get out of the car and take some shots of the lions and tigers (behind a fence of course!) Ive never been two ft from a lion or a tiger. I really enjoyed it. Sad to say, I'll now be bombarding the POTD thread for the next few weeks of animal pictures!
As we didn't really have access to multiple cameras, I shot with the D750 and 70-200 mm f 2.8 adding the 2 x TC when needed.
In total I have 659 shots, which I took down to 439 on my first cull. Here's an example image.

_DSC0498 by apple fanboy1, on Flickr

Comments are as always appreciated.

 

[kenoh]

So I had a great day yesterday. If anybody has the opportunity to do something similar, I'd say go for it.

So how does it differ from just going to a safari park? Well we were driven around in a 4x4 which meant we didn't have to stick to the tracks. Also as the guy worked there we could open our windows at times, even when driving in the lion enclosure. This really helped with the IQ.
Also before the park opened we were able to get out of the car and take some shots of the lions and tigers (behind a fence of course!) Ive never been two ft from a lion or a tiger. I really enjoyed it. Sad to say, I'll now be bombarding the POTD thread for the next few weeks of animal pictures!
As we didn't really have access to multiple cameras, I shot with the D750 and 70-200 mm f 2.8 adding the 2 x TC when needed.
In total I have 659 shots, which I took down to 439 on my first cull. Here's an example image.

[url=https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8717/17353856205_e332df14f9_b.jpg]Image[/url]_DSC0498 by apple fanboy1, on Flickr

Comments are as always appreciated.

Incredible fun by the sound of it and this picture is beautiful. Nicely shot

 

[JDDavis]

So I had a great day yesterday. If anybody has the opportunity to do something similar, I'd say go for it.

So how does it differ from just going to a safari park? Well we were driven around in a 4x4 which meant we didn't have to stick to the tracks. Also as the guy worked there we could open our windows at times, even when driving in the lion enclosure. This really helped with the IQ.
Also before the park opened we were able to get out of the car and take some shots of the lions and tigers (behind a fence of course!) Ive never been two ft from a lion or a tiger. I really enjoyed it. Sad to say, I'll now be bombarding the POTD thread for the next few weeks of animal pictures!
As we didn't really have access to multiple cameras, I shot with the D750 and 70-200 mm f 2.8 adding the 2 x TC when needed.
In total I have 659 shots, which I took down to 439 on my first cull. Here's an example image.

[url=https://farm9.staticflickr.com/8717/17353856205_e332df14f9_b.jpg]Image[/url]_DSC0498 by apple fanboy1, on Flickr

Comments are as always appreciated.

Awesome AFB! I'd love to see a shot and hear what you thought about the D750 with the 70-200 and TC on it. Do you have one at full throttle (400mm?) Maybe this first one (great shot, BTW) is?

 

[Apple fanboy]

Awesome AFB! I'd love to see a shot and hear what you thought about the D750 with the 70-200 and TC on it. Do you have one at full throttle (400mm?) Maybe this first one (great shot, BTW) is?

I loved it to be honest. The difference in quality between TC and no TC was pretty minimal. I believe the one above was shot without the TC, but the one below was at 400 mm with.
The biggest issue I had was when I was shooting the lions up close I must have knocked my top dial to effects which I've never used as a setting. So I missed a couple of good close ups before they moved away trying to work out why I was shooting j-peg and the images looked so weird. I missed the focus on so few shots, that my first cull was pretty difficult. I now have loads to edit. I will move on to the lions next, but still have plenty of tigers left to edit as well. The camera is a great choice for anyone looking to move to FF. The battery lasted all day, and I can't imagine a scenario where I'd normally shoot that many shots in a day. Even if you do sports, you could always buy a spare or the grip.

_DSC0415 by apple fanboy1, on Flickr

 

[JDDavis]

I loved it to be honest. The difference in quality between TC and no TC was pretty minimal. I believe the one above was shot without the TC, but the one below was at 400 mm with.
The biggest issue I had was when I was shooting the lions up close I must have knocked my top dial to effects which I've never used as a setting. So I missed a couple of good close ups before they moved away trying to work out why I was shooting j-peg and the images looked so weird. I missed the focus on so few shots, that my first cull was pretty difficult. I now have loads to edit. I will move on to the lions next, but still have plenty of tigers left to edit as well. The camera is a great choice for anyone looking to move to FF. The battery lasted all day, and I can't imagine a scenario where I'd normally shoot that many shots in a day. Even if you do sports, you could always buy a spare or the grip.

[url=https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7697/16731398304_aba6c107cd_b.jpg]Image[/url]_DSC0415 by apple fanboy1, on Flickr

Nice. Thanks for the feedback. I have found that I take less images (of the same subject) with the D750 than with my old D90. Some of that is no doubt because of the better focus system and also better habits on my part. I'm more confident with the D750. I also used an extra battery and grip on the D90 but I have not run into the need for it yet on the D750. I do keep a spare battery with me but I haven't had to change out during a day of activity yet.

 

[Apple fanboy]

Nice. Thanks for the feedback. I have found that I take less images (of the same subject) with the D750 than with my old D90. Some of that is no doubt because of the better focus system and also better habits on my part. I'm more confident with the D750. I also used an extra battery and grip on the D90 but I have not run into the need for it yet on the D750. I do keep a spare battery with me but I haven't had to change out during a day of activity yet.

I'm lucky that both of my bodies use the same battery, but I don't think I've ever run out of juice when in the field.
I guess I'll have to learn to trust my equipment and take less shots. Though tbh with something like this wildlife day, I'd rather take extra then sort, than miss the shot. Plus because of the animals change of expression and movement, every shot is slightly different.

 

[simonsi]

If my math is correct the D7100 + 70-300 5.6 and the D750 +2xTC + 70-200 2.8 will give you the exact same max focal length and aperture (400mm @5.6). ...
Edit: Interestingly...I have it in my head as a rule of thumb that most lenses are sharpest at 2x their max aperture (5.6 for a f/2.8 lens). I can't remember where I read that. Is that a real thing or did I make that up?

I would think the D750 + 70-200 2.8 (and the TC when you need it) will clearly give you the best compromise of everything. Plus if you are willing to crop (and plan for it in your shot) you will be able to pull in even closer with the D750.

I've shot both the 70-300 VR and the 70-200/2.8 VR on a D300, I have had the 2xTC (now sold), but now have the 1.7xTC.

Although mathematically the same, those combinations will work quite differently. They have similar IQ - IF you can shoot the 70-300 at around 250 and f/8, at this it will be similar (on the same body), to the 70-200 + 2x shot wide open at f/4. I find the 70-300 goes soft at the far end and at less than f/8.

I mainly shoot sports with the telephotos, my prime combo now is the 70-200 with 1.7x as required (usually not with adults on a full hockey pitch), and the 70-300 is in reserve.

IMHO the 70-200 with the 1.7x (=120-340mm f/4.8), is same IQ as the 70-200 solo.

OP - looks like you got some great shots!

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...but I don't think I've ever run out of juice when in the field...

Ah - that comment brings back the D200 days, 150 shots on a charge with no flash use...I still have all 4 batteries I purchased for my single D200 back then