impulse/forced buy of the day - EOS Elan

[seenew]

How do you even pronounce that (so I don't look like an idiot in class Wednesday)?

Yeah, I started a new quarter at college today, my first photo class. He springs on us that we must have a 35mm camera and film for the next class. :| So yeah, having already bought a few lenses for my 350D, I wanted one that I could use them with. The local camera shop my prof referred me to had only a 35mm Rebel with a broken LCD or a used Elan, in good condition. I got the Elan for $199 (was that a rip off?).

The camera, rest of supplies for that class and my other class (color theory) totaled $535 There goes all the money I made over break!

So yeah, basically, I want you guys to cheer me up about this. Right now I feel like I was forced to throw away $200 on a camera I don't really want. I plan on sticking to digital and upgrading to a 5D in a few years, so this seems like a step back for me. At least I can still buy EF lenses, right?

Also, I have an EFS 10-22, and I know that won't work with this Elan, so what would be a good substitute to buy? I also have my (favorite lens) the EF 50mm 1.8 MK1, which will work, and a slow, soft, Canon EF 75-300mm 3.5.

I'm sad!

 

[Mydriasis]

I hate it when they do that, forced to spend money on stuff you dont really want.

But hey, if you want us to cheer you up... think about it this way, you can learn a lot about photography techniques with conventional film. You are force to plan and consider every shot, calculate exposure, without the aid of a LCD and histogram, and other such fine stuff.

Some day you will look back on this a laugh.

and remember there is still tomorrows keynote to look forward to...

 

[compuwar]

The local camera shop my prof referred me to had only a 35mm Rebel with a broken LCD or a used Elan, in good condition. I got the Elan for $199 (was that a rip off?).

Hey! Full frame for only $199???? What a bargain! Think what that would have cost you for digital!

Besides, someone will be taking the class after you, so perhaps you'll get most of your money back on the next bunch?

 

[seenew]

I just realized that it doesn't take AAs. It looked like it did.
Where can I get batteries and a charger for this?

 

[sjl]

I just realized that it doesn't take AAs. It looked like it did.
Where can I get batteries and a charger for this?

I used to have an EOS 30 (aka the Elan 7e). Odds are very good that it takes standard photographic lithium batteries (non rechargeable.) I don't know if you can get them in a rechargeable form or not.

Any good camera shop should be able to sell the batteries to you.

On lenses: any EF lens you buy will work on the Elan. The equivalent to the 10-22mm would be either the 16-35mm f/2.8L, or the 17-40mm f/4L - neither are particularly cheap (although the 17-40 is quite reasonable), but will do the job very well, and you can take them with you to the 5D down the road. For that last reason, I would strongly suggest using L series zooms on the full frame body; using anything less on the 5D is a waste of money on a very nice body (it's not so bad on a film body, though, since it's so much cheaper.)

If you really like the 50mm f/1.8 on the 1.6 crop DSLR, I'd suggest getting the 85mm f/1.8 for the Elan; the focal length is roughly the same (+/- 5mm), and although it's not exactly cheap, it's still a very nice lens for portrait work on a full frame body. I know that if I bought a 5D, that lens would be very high on the list - I'm very fond of a 50mm lens on a 1.6 crop body.

 

[ChrisA]

In terms of pure image quality that $199 camera will blow away any DSLR that Canon makes. Film is just so much better. But you have to wait to see the result If you are going to be a Canon user you should have a film body.

If you simply needed a 35mm SLR and it didn't have to be a Canon EOS system then you could have found something for as low as $100 if you were lucky but more likely $150.

I'm sure you will get to use black and white film. You just might get spoiled. Film can do stuff digital can't.

Yes school is expensive. The place I went to got about $40K but I've made back the investment about 60 times so far.

 

[seenew]

In terms of pure image quality that $199 camera will blow away any DSLR that Canon makes. Film is just so much better. But you have to wait to see the result If you are going to be a Canon user you should have a film body.

If you simply needed a 35mm SLR and it didn't have to be a Canon EOS system then you could have found something for as low as $100 if you were lucky but more likely $150.

I'm sure you will get to use black and white film. You just might get spoiled. Film can do stuff digital can't.

Yes school is expensive. The place I went to got about $40K but I've made back the investment about 60 times so far.

I have Canon EF lenses already, so that's why I got the Elan. And yeah, I know it's expensive (my school is 40k/yr), but I'm still depressed.

Also, I found rechargeable versions of the batteries it takes. Ordered 2 and a charger. What's a good wide lens for this (EF)? Also, is it pronounced Eh-lon? I don't want to sound stupid in class.

 

[coldrain]

You do not have to bother with rechargable batteries, batteries in a film SLR have a very long lifetime (they do not have to power all those electronics, remember). You will probably not use half of a set of its lithium batteries.

Do you need a wide angle zoom for the course? I am guessing you do not like the idea of forking out 700$ for an EF 17-40 f4 L.

There are two cheaper and quite good alternatives,
the very cheap (yes surprisingly good for the price) Tamron 19-35mm (150$ or less) and the Tamron 17-35mm f2.8-4. Those two will do fine. The 17-35 f2.8-4 will also be a nice lens on your 350D (since you do not have that range already in your collection). The 75-300 will not appear to be that soft on the film SLR, so I think you will be fine with the set of the 17-35 (or 19-35 cheap option), 50mm and 75-300mm.

 

[-hh]

How do you even pronounce that (so I don't look like an idiot in class Wednesday)?

The second syllable first, because its easier: it sounds like "Lawn" (stuff with grass on it in the front yard) without the 'w'.

For the first syllable, a long 'E' can pass, but it should be more of a shorter vowel sound, somewhere along the lines of "eh". Sometimes you might hear it said with a slight flavor of "a", but more along the lines of the 'a' in 'always' instead of 'attention'.

M-W has a definition here with an audio link. It is a French word, but M-W makes it sound here like someone lifted the pure french version instead of the "less snooty" Anglicized variant.

...The local camera shop my prof referred me to had only a 35mm Rebel with a broken LCD or a used Elan, in good condition. I got the Elan for $199 (was that a rip off?).

There have been several variants of Canon Elans made, and I'm not sure which one you have. I have the Elan IIe (more on that in a second) and B&H is currently selling these used for around $100.

However, the Elan II's were superceded by the Elan 7's several years ago. Again, as per B&H prices, the 7's look to go for around $200. So the answer to your question is that it would have been a poor price for a II, but a good price for a 7, especially if it is one of the 'better' variants.


Elan variants:

There's a couple of major options in the Elan family.

For example, the "e" designation (such as my IIe) means that it contains an eyeball tracking system. With this feature engaged, the camera is able to sense which of the focusing points you're looking at, and uses that one to drive where the camera focuses. Within the IIe, there's (3) sensor points. I think that the Elan 7 has 7 such points.

If your camera is an "e", make sure to read the manual and figure out how to calibrate the camera for your eyeball. Do this before Wednesday


There's also some 7N (and 7NE?) Elan systems out there too. I'm not sure what the N designation is supposed to mean. It might simply stand for "New", as it looks like these incorporate E-TTL II strobe stuff.

The old II series also had an optional dateback. I'm not sure if there was any special designation for these.

So yeah, basically, I want you guys to cheer me up about this. Right now I feel like I was forced to throw away $200 on a camera I don't really want. I plan on sticking to digital and upgrading to a 5D in a few years, so this seems like a step back for me.

Well, if it will cheer you up, when springtime comes to Georgia and the streams start flowing, if you promise me that you'll go shoot some long exposures of water/waterfalls with a tripod, remind me and I'll send you one of my dwindling stashed rolls of Kodak Royal Gold (ie, the old Ektar) ISO 25 film. In the meantime, try to find some Fuji Velvia ISO 50 (not 100) slide film and try shooting some at ISO 40.

At least I can still buy EF lenses, right?

Yes, you can buy EF lenses and they'll be full frame - - think of that as an opportunity for a class project to illustrate the difference.

Also, I have an EFS 10-22, and I know that won't work with this Elan, so what would be a good substitute to buy? I also have my (favorite lens) the EF 50mm 1.8 MK1, which will work, and a slow, soft, Canon EF 75-300mm 3.5.

For wide, something in the 20-35 zoom will probably do. My first 'walkaround' lens with my Elan IIe was the 28-135 IS, which served me pretty well.

In the meantime, simply remember that each photographic tool has different strengths and weaknesses, which is why its useful to learn a bit about each one. For example, film remains a lot better than digital today when it comes to low power.

And it might take a couple of extra hoops to jump through for putting images online, but it still can be done, and it can be hard to tell the difference. For example, which of the photos on this webpage of mine were NOT taken with a 35mm SLR?


-hh

 

[compuwar]

In the meantime, try to find some Fuji Velvia ISO 50 (not 100) slide film and try shooting some at ISO 40.

If you can't find Velvia, Provia 100F shot at EI 80 is almost as saturated and has less grain. Before I got a Jobo processor, that, a tank/reel an aquarium heater a Rubbermaid container for the sink a stopwatch and and a thermometer had me buying the Kodak 6-bath E6 kits every few weeks.

Also, I used to mostly shoot Velvia at EI 80 and Provia at EI 160. The one stop push was extra time in the first developer and full time in the color developer if I remember correctly (Plus a little time added to compensate for aquarium heaters not going quite high enough.) You get a bit more saturation with the one stop push, and having relatively fast slide film was advantageous for moving subjects. When I printed Ilfochromes I thought the pushed shots from Provia were the best combination of balance and saturation.

Getting someone else's lab to push was about $3/roll at the time, so the sink method definitely helped control costs.

 

[Jesus]

Well, i just ordered an apple tv, beat that.

 

[compuwar]

Well, i just ordered an apple tv, beat that.

Bring it within range of me and a bat and I'd be happy to oblige.

 

[wmmk]

hey, my parents are friends with a lot of great pro photographers (my dad's an architecture critic, so he knows some seriously amazing ones) and they all have to shoot film occasionally. If you hope to someday use a 5D, you probably are headed on that path and having a 35mm SLR will help you.

Also, that eyeball focusing thing is amazingly cool! Is that available on any DSLRs? then again, I just bought my 2nd K mount lens, so a better question would be: does it work on a K10D?

If you can't find Velvia, Provia 100F shot at EI 80 is almost as saturated and has less grain. Before I got a Jobo processor, that, a tank/reel an aquarium heater a Rubbermaid container for the sink a stopwatch and and a thermometer had me buying the Kodak 6-bath E6 kits every few weeks.

Also, I used to mostly shoot Velvia at EI 80 and Provia at EI 160. The one stop push was extra time in the first developer and full time in the color developer if I remember correctly (Plus a little time added to compensate for aquarium heaters not going quite high enough.) You get a bit more saturation with the one stop push, and having relatively fast slide film was advantageous for moving subjects. When I printed Ilfochromes I thought the pushed shots from Provia were the best combination of balance and saturation.

Getting someone else's lab to push was about $3/roll at the time, so the sink method definitely helped control costs.

what did you use for an enlarger?

 

[compuwar]

what did you use for an enlarger?

A Bessler 67 for the times I wanted Ilfochromes and didn't just scan the slides in. I can give you a good price on it

I also used an Omega for the times when I shot it in 4x5, but I'm holding on to that one just in case...

 

[seenew]

The shutter started sticking in the Elan, so I returned it for the $200, had some extra time between shooting for class, so I got an Elan 7E from ebay for $135 shipped. Excited to try out the eye-controlled focusing, even if it is a novelty.

Also, I botched the first two rolls of film I developed. Didn't get them on the reels correctly. I have a steel tank with two reels. I've heard the plastic tanks and reels are much easier, but my prof kidded me and told me not to wimp out. I'm thinking about getting a plastic tank and some reels, would any of you recommend it?

 

[compuwar]

The shutter started sticking in the Elan, so I returned it for the $200, had some extra time between shooting for class, so I got an Elan 7E from ebay for $135 shipped. Excited to try out the eye-controlled focusing, even if it is a novelty.

Also, I botched the first two rolls of film I developed. Didn't get them on the reels correctly. I have a steel tank with two reels. I've heard the plastic tanks and reels are much easier, but my prof kidded me and told me not to wimp out. I'm thinking about getting a plastic tank and some reels, would any of you recommend it?

Once you get the hang of it, the metal ones are better IMO. You should just spend some time practicing with your hands in a pillow case using the ruined rolls. With the metal ones, I always *knew* the film was on good, with plastic reels and small film (35mm) sometimes I'd get it jumping the track a bit.

 

[Clix Pix]

The shutter started sticking in the Elan, so I returned it for the $200, had some extra time between shooting for class, so I got an Elan 7E from ebay for $135 shipped. Excited to try out the eye-controlled focusing, even if it is a novelty.

Also, I botched the first two rolls of film I developed. Didn't get them on the reels correctly. I have a steel tank with two reels. I've heard the plastic tanks and reels are much easier, but my prof kidded me and told me not to wimp out. I'm thinking about getting a plastic tank and some reels, would any of you recommend it?

Stick with the steel tank and the steel reels....yes, it takes time and much practice to get the hang of it but once you do, you're set. Wow, this brings back memories of years ago standing in the bathroom working with developing my film....

 

[wmmk]

A Bessler 67 for the times I wanted Ilfochromes and didn't just scan the slides in. I can give you a good price on it

I also used an Omega for the times when I shot it in 4x5, but I'm holding on to that one just in case...

this probably should be in the marketplace, but how much?
I've been shooting digital lately, but I just love film. I'm thinking of buying a K1000 cheap and just using my 28-200 and maybe getting a 10mm prime for both it and my K100D.

 

[Zeke]

Congrats on the 7e. The eye-controlled focusing is awesome and I wish Canon didn't discontinue it. Get the battery pack (BP-300) if you want to use AA batteries (plus it's really nice regardless).

 

[pdxflint]

Also, I botched the first two rolls of film I developed. Didn't get them on the reels correctly. I have a steel tank with two reels. I've heard the plastic tanks and reels are much easier, but my prof kidded me and told me not to wimp out. I'm thinking about getting a plastic tank and some reels, would any of you recommend it?

Definitely, I'd recommend the steel reels and tanks. Just make sure to get some good quality reels, because the cheap ones can often get out of whack (bent) when you drop them, and the little clips in the middle aren't always too reliable for helping you get the film started straight. The good reels are much heavier, have little prongs to hook the film sprocket holes, I think they're made in England. Make sure to cut the leader off the film, and just gently bend it in the natural direction of the film curve and you can feel the little prongs. It gets you oriented the right direction, and once you get the film hooked on, just turn the reel as you gently feed the film onto it. You can practice in the light, and actually roll the reel on the counter to watch the film wind on it. They're really very easy to use once you get the hang of it, and very reliable. The plastic stuff is crap, and causes more problems IMHO. Cheers, and good luck. -phil

PS: I miss my Canon EOS A2. Seriously, if the Elan 7e doesn't work out, see if you can locate one of these. It also came as an A2e model and was also known as the EOS 5 outside of the US. This camera was a workhorse, and could crank out 5 frames/sec - easy to run through a roll in a heartbeat if you're not careful. Also, very quiet film advance, and optional user control rewind (2 speeds - quiet and fast) with an option to leave the film leader out on rewind. This was handy when shooting half a roll, and being able to reload the roll and finish it later. Just crimp the leader, and write on the back of it how many exposures you had shot. Here's a link to a user review of this camera.