Install fiber for later use?

[monokakata]

Once again I'm doing some big renovations in a 75 year old house made in Hawaiian style, which means the internal walls are made from single 3/4" T&G redwood and all AC wiring either comes up from below into the baseboards, or runs down in wooden channels. The external walls are double T&G on 2x4s. That's how we roll out here in Hawai'i, or at least with the old houses.

In 2009, the last time the joint was pulled apart (it has two living levels and it was pulled apart from below the main floor) I ran CAT6 up from the unfinished (but now finished) basement everywhere I needed it. So now my network is in the baseboards, coming up from below, and most of the horizontal runs are above the first level's drywall ceilings, and not accessible anymore. Recabling would be impractical.

Now, much of the main floor is open, and walls are coming down (to be rebuilt). The attic is completely open, and although some walls will stay single-board, some will be new ordinary 2x4 drywall. Because of the way the house is built, it's much easier to go down into the external walls than it was to go up into them from below.

At this point it will be trivially easy to come up from my wiring closet on the main floor (currently everything goes down from it) into the open attic, and then run down everywhere I please. I have 500' of CAT 6e on hand for the task.

But it occurs to me that in this open and easily-wired space I should maybe run some fiber. I don't have any need to go fiber now, none at all. But maybe I will, or maybe somebody else will after I'm gone (I'm not young).

The longest run from the closet would be less than 100', and most would be less than 50'.

So I'm wondering whether it would make sense to pick up some terminated fiber cables, run them alongside the CAT 6e, and just leave them for future use.

I'm really only thinking about this because right now running cable would be as easy as running cable in a new build.

Suggestions, please.

Thanks.

 

[Gav2k]

Cat6 is more than sufficient for anything you will throw at it for years to come. Unless you plan running a server centre out of your house you'd be wasting money.

Honestly leave it as it is or jump to 6e as you have it. Then throw some money at a decent switch and maybe a couple of decent AP's.

 

[campyguy]

I've assisted with the design and building of dozens of bridges and rehabbed structures over 25+ years. I've always recommended adding a "future" during build-outs - an appropriate conduit with "fish-line" or pull-line in it, and these conduits can be purchased at any construction supply source and often have caps included in order to keep vermin and contaminants out. And, any time comm lines are installed I will recommend shielded conduit to help minimize interference. And, add a splice box at obvious locations such as planned breaks in elevations (when one plans to go up/down a flooring level or when a future room might make sense), and leave a bit of extra pull-line (a separate piece, not attached to the main pull-line) in that splice box so you don't have to go back to the store...

With the conduit in place, there's no need to worry now which comm line will make sense in 6 months or 10 years... I can't count the number of former clients that have thanked me for my decision to add one or more future conduits, and I really don't understand why my engineering and architect counterparts don't even think about this easy planning step that allows one to delay a telecom commitment that might not make sense in the future.

If you do decide on CAT line, I install 2 CAT cables - some of my NAS boxes include "link aggregation", making for so-much-faster file transfers. There's my two suggestions, have fun!

 

[Mr. Buzzcut]

Second the conduit idea. With no use for fiber today, what would you even install? It's not a static medium. What seems to make sense today could be obsolete for whatever future technology may need it.

 

[monokakata]

Thanks, Gav2k and campyguy (are you a biker by any chance?) and Mr. Buzzcut.

I hadn't thought about pairing the cables -- that's a great idea.

And conduit, which I had thought about as an option, but now I'll definitely do it (and with strings). I hadn't thought about splice boxes at all -- thanks for that.

Maybe the image will be interesting. Notice the 1940s knob-and-tube wiring (in service for overhead lights until about a year ago) in the upper left. That's AC wiring coming up through the floor. You can also see the single-wall construction. Almost all the wood in this house, except for flooring and window frames/casements is redwood. Termites don't like it, a huge plus in Hawai'i.

 

[Gav2k]

View attachment 606155 Thanks, Gav2k and campyguy (are you a biker by any chance?) and Mr. Buzzcut.

As in motorbike?

 

[campyguy]

View attachment 606155 Thanks, Gav2k and campyguy (are you a biker by any chance?) and Mr. Buzzcut.

I hadn't thought about pairing the cables -- that's a great idea.

And conduit, which I had thought about as an option, but now I'll definitely do it (and with strings). I hadn't thought about splice boxes at all -- thanks for that.

Maybe the image will be interesting. Notice the 1940s knob-and-tube wiring (in service for overhead lights until about a year ago) in the upper left. That's AC wiring coming up through the floor. You can also see the single-wall construction. Almost all the wood in this house, except for flooring and window frames/casements is redwood. Termites don't like it, a huge plus in Hawai'i.

I'm pleased that our advice makes sense and is helpful to you. Earlier I made a snarky comment about my workplace peers, I wasn't intending to be denigrating - I worked at blue-collar jobs for 10 years before I went to college and learned how to build a "box" before learning how to design a box, and we all learn from each other!

Your structure looks like it has pretty solid bones. Just a thought - while much of it is daylighted, a lookover by a local inspector might be helpful in that he/she could offer some inexpensive wind-related upgrades? I'm often the client's rep in the field, so I'm like that in my train of thought...

And, yes, I'm a cycling fan (sorry, Gav2k - "campy" is cycling slang for Campagnolo, an Italian cycling components manufacturer). I've got a '77 Raleigh and 2006 Colnago C50 with Record and a 09 Gunnar Roadie with a Chorus triple for my old knees! Also, I am NOT a MAMIL!

 

[monokakata]

As in motorbike?

As campyguy says, as in Campagnolo.

I have a late 70s Pogliaghi frame, supposedly made by Pogliaghi himself. It took me a long time to build it up to full-Campy, but finally it was. Sad to say, I haven't ridden it for a long time.

 

[monokakata]

Just a thought - while much of it is daylighted, a lookover by a local inspector might be helpful in that he/she could offer some inexpensive wind-related upgrades? I'm often the client's rep in the field, so I'm like that in my train of thought...

Hurricane clips are on my list, at least for the exposed parts. Like the cabling, may as well do it while so much is exposed. New builds here now have to be wind-resistant. In Hawai'i we used to go decades between hurricanes. Now we see them -- or at least warnings -- regularly. This year we had two misses but they were worrisome. I've got to do hurricane shutters before next summer.

For what it's worth, I should add that this is the house I grew up in. The camera is in the same room I had as a kid, in the 1950s. With the renovation I'm going to lose a few little things that are meaningful only to me, such as the (filled) hole in the wall that my ham radio antenna's RG8 feed went though.

 

[campyguy]

As campyguy says, as in Campagnolo.

I have a late 70s Pogliaghi frame, supposedly made by Pogliaghi himself. It took me a long time to build it up to full-Campy, but finally it was. Sad to say, I haven't ridden it for a long time.

Off-topic, but you started it! I really miss Sante's work, he learned from one of the best. When I went to buy my first nice bike - the C50 - I considered a Pogliaghi, but by that time two of the Basso brothers had bought the name after Sante "retired" and I suspected the newer framesets were Chinese-made as the Basso branded frames were. I have few builders to choose from as I'm about 6'7" and really need a 64cm to 70cm frame and both Colnago and Pogliaghi built 64/65cm frames, and I settled on Colnago mainly due to the Freuler modifications in the 60cm+ frames. If you ever get the chance and before riding off into the sunset, ride a C50/60 - you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

My Raleigh is an English steel frame, and my Gunnar is US-made steel - gawd, they're heavy!

As to your frame, do check the frame build number. Pogliaghi's mentor, Pierre Brambilla, built the first 1000-odd frames under the "Pogliaghi" name - I think it's between starting at #6000 up to and including about #7000. Pogliaghi interned and started his building at Brambilla's Milano shop. Keep in mind that even if it's an older frame, but not really old, it still could be a NOS (New Old Stock) frame that sat around until you bought it. If it's a Brambilla build, then you have an instant classic that's worth some serious coin should you ever choose to sell it. Regardless, your bike is a classic - in a really good way.

And, here's an insider's tip: if you ever choose to buy Campy or Miche buy from a UK-based reseller. The UK resellers don't have the markup to deal with that the "outside-EU" "landshark tax" that's roughly a 33% markup - some of them have NA-based sales set ups, with costs that include express shipping, exclude VAT, and include IRS forms (the latter if you buy a wheelset, as the IRS sees a bicycle as "transportation") - I priced Record 2015 here at about $2100 the way I liked it, and found the same kit from the UK - delivered - @$1300. If it's made in the EU, you can find similar discounts; I prefer the UK sites mainly because I don't do German or French too well. The only downside is no US "guarantee" - gotta go back to the reseller, but I've never had a manufacturing-related issue from a reputable maker.

Back on topic, so cool that you're working on your childhood house. I went to U of Portland, with a large contingent of Islanders - we had 9 grads in civil engineering in my year, two are Hawaiians and we stay in touch, and they're always griping about having to plan for the worst, but the worst almost always passes by! I have friends from college living in Pohnpei and the Marshall and Yapese islands too and get invites to move there, and then a hurricane comes close... Yikes! And then the storm passes, and I get to daydreaming again about your home and theirs - yep, we had freezing rain where I was staying yesterday. Sigh.

Happy Holidays, and take care!

 

[Gav2k]

He that's fine. Never really been into cycling in that way. More of a nice motorbike kind of person.

 

[monokakata]

Off-topic, but you started it! I really miss Sante's work, he learned from one of the best. When I went to buy my first nice bike - the C50 - I considered a Pogliaghi, but by that time two of the Basso brothers had bought the name after Sante "retired" and I suspected the newer framesets were Chinese-made as the Basso branded frames were. I have few builders to choose from as I'm about 6'7" and really need a 64cm to 70cm frame and both Colnago and Pogliaghi built 64/65cm frames, and I settled on Colnago mainly due to the Freuler modifications in the 60cm+ frames. If you ever get the chance and before riding off into the sunset, ride a C50/60 - you'll wonder why you didn't do it sooner.

My Raleigh is an English steel frame, and my Gunnar is US-made steel - gawd, they're heavy!

As to your frame, do check the frame build number. Pogliaghi's mentor, Pierre Brambilla, built the first 1000-odd frames under the "Pogliaghi" name - I think it's between starting at #6000 up to and including about #7000. Pogliaghi interned and started his building at Brambilla's Milano shop. Keep in mind that even if it's an older frame, but not really old, it still could be a NOS (New Old Stock) frame that sat around until you bought it. If it's a Brambilla build, then you have an instant classic that's worth some serious coin should you ever choose to sell it. Regardless, your bike is a classic - in a really good way.

And, here's an insider's tip: if you ever choose to buy Campy or Miche buy from a UK-based reseller. The UK resellers don't have the markup to deal with that the "outside-EU" "landshark tax" that's roughly a 33% markup - some of them have NA-based sales set ups, with costs that include express shipping, exclude VAT, and include IRS forms (the latter if you buy a wheelset, as the IRS sees a bicycle as "transportation") - I priced Record 2015 here at about $2100 the way I liked it, and found the same kit from the UK - delivered - @$1300. If it's made in the EU, you can find similar discounts; I prefer the UK sites mainly because I don't do German or French too well. The only downside is no US "guarantee" - gotta go back to the reseller, but I've never had a manufacturing-related issue from a reputable maker.

Back on topic, so cool that you're working on your childhood house. I went to U of Portland, with a large contingent of Islanders - we had 9 grads in civil engineering in my year, two are Hawaiians and we stay in touch, and they're always griping about having to plan for the worst, but the worst almost always passes by! I have friends from college living in Pohnpei and the Marshall and Yapese islands too and get invites to move there, and then a hurricane comes close... Yikes! And then the storm passes, and I get to daydreaming again about your home and theirs - yep, we had freezing rain where I was staying yesterday. Sigh.

Happy Holidays, and take care!

Same to you. If you're ever heading over here, send a PM.

The Pogiaghi is #11670. 62 cm.

It was the first bike I ever had that actually fitted me perfectly. I hadn't understood what a difference that could make. And the handling . . . well, you know.

 

[glenthompson]

The one place it might be worth installing fiber is where you will exceed the 100m limit of Cat6 cable. Runs to an outbuilding, barn, or boathouse. If the trench is dug for power and/or water, why not add the fiber? Internally in a house, no need.

 

[Gav2k]

The one place it might be worth installing fiber is where you will exceed the 100m limit of Cat6 cable. Runs to an outbuilding, barn, or boathouse. If the trench is dug for power and/or water, why not add the fiber? Internally in a house, no need.

It would actually be 90 meters between patch panel and wall socket if you go to spec.

 

[HenryAZ]

The one place it might be worth installing fiber is where you will exceed the 100m limit of Cat6 cable. Runs to an outbuilding, barn, or boathouse. If the trench is dug for power and/or water, why not add the fiber? Internally in a house, no need.

Yes, between buildings you definitely do not want to use copper, even if within length limits. Fiber or wireless is the only safe way to connect two separate buildings.

 

[monokakata]

Thanks to glenthompson, Gav2k, and HenryAZ. I don't have any outbuildings that I'll ever need to get to. I have one falling-down shed full of centipedes, coqui frogs, rats . . . but it's coming down one of these days.

So it's all in the same 2000 sq ft house for me. I'll run paired cables to a couple of spots, and the rest will be single. I'll try to run as much as possible in conduit -- at least partly because it's impossible to keep rats out of the attic (no squirrels here, though) and I might as well protect the runs from being chewed on.

I have two patch panels (one on each floor) and the up one has 8 free ports. I'm planning to leave the old wiring in place, because why not?

Thanks again to everyone. This has been helpful.

 

[campyguy]

I'll run paired cables to a couple of spots, and the rest will be single. I'll try to run as much as possible in conduit -- at least partly because it's impossible to keep rats out of the attic (no squirrels here, though) and I might as well protect the runs from being chewed on.

One more tip, but, read this bit first while paying attention to the observations in the results "table". Go ahead, I'll wait.....

Time's up. The 3 items that didn't see any action, they generally have one material in common - copper. For my projects and as a native NYer, I'm partly successful because I "think like a thief" when a structure gets built and I could tell you some fun stories (added incentive to head your way one day soon...).

Also, there's a big myth out there that "rats eat everything". Rats sample everything, eat what they can, store what doesn't taste bad and kill them, and pass on eating what tastes bad. That last bit still means there's damage to my "______", and the &@$%***@#& that follows. Slow poisons don't stem the damage as the rat will sample, then ingest, walk away, then die (and they can't vomit, so the poison goes through them).

Capsaicin works well for mammals, but birds love the stuff (rather, they're pretty much immune to the heat).

Back to copper. It tastes terrible, lasts a long time, and comes in many physical forms we can buy locally and via the internet. I made a mod to the project documents of all my building work, and there's not a rat or mouse to be found in any of them. Line and/or fill your penetrations (bored holes, ventilation penetrations, and access portals with copper wool - like the stuff that we use to scrub pots/pans), and spray the wool with capsaicin liquid (except the access portals you regularly use).

If you have rats, you have something they want and regularly access - even if it's simply a dry place to sleep. A lot of plastic contains acetic acid, which is very fragrant, and a lot of plastics are actually organic in base - the new plastic you're installing is new, smells new, and therefore must be sampled. You want to cut or block off that access they've been using - the capsaicin will burn their feet and nasal tissue, and the copper will taste absolutely terrible, with the former being applied the first time to offer that the space has changed and can be reapplied, and the copper will be tasted once and avoided forever. Aluminum wool works well too, but it's not as durable as copper wool and sometimes has iron content to harden this wool and it'll shrink and rust as a result. Cheers!

 

[monokakata]

I do know what you mean about NY. I lived for years in Buffalo, and then in a small town south of Buffalo, in the snow belt, in an old farmhouse. Mice. I was able to keep ahead of the mice there, because -- as you know -- weathersealing was crucial, and so if a house is tightened up against the cold, it's also well-tightened up against rodents.

Here, not so much. In fact not at all. I have a couple of windows that don't close, because there's nothing to close. They are screened, but were never designed for glass. Anything that can get on my roof can get into the attic (but not into the living space). Rats can make it to the roof on the power lines or the telephone/cable lines. We used to have big metal disks on the lines, to stop them, but they're gone now. Once they're on the roof, they have many entry ways -- it would be terrible, except when they come visiting they stay in the attic.

The mynahs also make their way in, and nest (or else they nest under my solar panels). Huge centipedes crawl in from the bottom. Dengue-bearing mosquitoes fly in when the doors are open.

I'll try some capsicum, though. Why not? I did use the steel wool trick in WNY, for one mouse pathway (that I also blocked with wood and flashing).

To put everybody in a holiday mood, here's a picture of the business end of a centipede. Their bites aren't lethal, but they hurt like hell, and for a long time. Sometimes they think that napping in your shoes is just the thing (in Hilo we leave our shoes outside).

Wait, this isn't Halloween. And there's no scale. I'll let you use your own scale. Hint: those are pieces of #8 gravel.

 

[A.Goldberg]

My parents built their house in 2000/2001. They installed Ethernet and fiber wired throughout the house, figuring fiber was the way of the future. Then WiFi came out and portable/mobile devices became popular.

I doubt fiber will make its way into houses anytime soon. I think WiFi will continue to be advanced as that's that the market is pushing for.

 

[satcomer]

I believe with the current wireless AC and future better and home owners will not have to install Ethernet at all. The only wrench is streaming HD video boxes to TVs to prevent streaming buffering so Ethernet is still needed to them.