Intel Core 2 Duo T7400 Review (Merom @ 2.16 GHz) Compared to Yonah @ 2.0 GHz

[HardLine]

EDIT: Yonah is the name of the chip inside all the Intel based Mac's, just to clear the confusion.

Just as I freaking thought.

To every one of you guys who thought that this new chip was going to blow your socks off, you'll be disappointed.

To those of you who felt you have Intel based Mac’s with yonah's inside them, fear not for your products are marginally slower at best.

Link to review: http://www.pcper.com/article.php?type=expert&aid=276

Snippet from conclusion:

Unlike the desktop CPUs where there was a lot of room for improvement, Intel's mobile CPUs were in excellent shape already. Though the jump in performance isn't as massive as the desktop Core 2 Duo, the improvements Intel has put into their new laptop processors is significant and maintains their dominance in the mobile space.

And to anyone who tells me it's faster in spec_int or superpi, you deserve a smack. Why? What are you going to do with your intel mac all day? Calculate integers and pi to 30 million decimal places? no!

So for anyone who was waiting for this chip to come out, I don't see what the big deal is.

In my honest opinion this chip won't get all the credit it deserves until the new Santa Rosa platform launches in the first half of 07.

To those of you who want to know what Santa Rosa is:

source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino#Santa_Rosa_platform

info:

Santa Rosa platform

The code-name Santa Rosa refers to the fourth-generation Centrino platform, scheduled for release in April 2007.

Market-watchers expect the platform to consist of:

* an Intel Core 2 processor (code named Merom) with an 800 MT/s front side bus that uses Socket P
* an Intel Mobile 965 Express chipset (code named Crestline), offered with Intel's fourth-generation graphics technology
* an Intel PRO/Wireless 4965AGN IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n mini-PCIe WiFi adapter (code named Kedron)

The market also expects the forthcoming platform to support NAND flash-memory caching (code-named Robson), WWAN Internet access via cellular networks (code-named Windigo), and UEFI, a successor to BIOS.

Conclusion: If you have an intel based mac, be happy, you're far far far away from being considered out of date. If you've been waiting for the merom before you buy your notebook, then you're just burning your time.

 

[Magnus Reftel]

And to anyone who tells me it's faster in spec_int or superpi, you deserve a smack. Why? What are you going to do with your intel mac all day? Calculate integers and pi to 30 million decimal places?

"Calculating integers" is not what specint is about. It's a collection of programs that are supposed to be representative to normal, fairly branch-heavy code. See for instance http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SPECint.
Of course, it seems like the tasks that actually are CPU bound these days are rather specialized (Photoshop filters, games, et.c.), so the relevance of this kind of general benchmarks may not be that high any longer.

 

[crazzyeddie]

Thank you for posting this. I had been a little bit worried, but it seems as if some of the major changes are EMT64 and the new SSE unit which is supposedly 25% faster than Yonah. I think the SSE may end up being more important for Apple because of how dependent we all were on Altivec for speed improvements and now SSE is of course taking its place.

 

[risc]

Good read thanks for the link. It looks like the Merom will be great for the scientists / mathmeticians and not make much difference to everyone else. I can't wait to see some real world results. It's weird to see the battery life go down with the Merom I can't say I was expecting that.

 

[QCassidy352]

hough the jump in performance isn't as massive as the desktop Core 2 Duo, the improvements Intel has put into their new laptop processors is significant and maintains their dominance in the mobile space.

I agree with that interpretation of the results. It's not that Merom isn't better, it's just that it's not the leap that the P4 --> core 2 duo is.

And the people who waited for Merom also avoided the rev. A bugs, of which there were many.

 

[roland.g]

I'm not waiting for Merom since I'm planning on getting a Mini when it gets speed bumped or a Mac Pro though unless it is a mid-tower for less than $1800, I will most likely get the Mini.

I had heard about the GMA 965 which I guess has 128MB shared video rather than 64, and that it is much better than the 950. Any chance that will make it into the Minis/Macbooks by August/September (WWDC/Paris) or is that part of Santa Rosa and definitely not coming in any form till 07.

 

[Eidorian]

I'm not waiting for Merom since I'm planning on getting a Mini when it gets speed bumped or a Mac Pro though unless it is a mid-tower for less than $1800, I will most likely get the Mini.

I had heard about the GMA 965 which I guess has 128MB shared video rather than 64, and that it is much better than the 950. Any chance that will make it into the Minis/Macbooks by August/September (WWDC/Paris) or is that part of Santa Rosa and definitely not coming in any form till 07.

X3000 comes packaged with Santa Rosa next year.

 

[ImNoSuperMan]

I think what you are missing here is the Working temps of the two chips. I am(or was) looking forward to C2D only coz it is supposed to run cooler than CD. Anyone has any info on that?

 

[Dracula]

the merom chips are faster than the yonahs but the same clock speed

intel will be pumping out 45nm chips in the 2H of 07, now that should cool things down substantially.

 

[milo]

"the improvements Intel has put into their new laptop processors is significant"

Sounds good to me. I don't think most people here thought merom would "blow our socks off".

The benchmarks have been around for months, and have said about a 20% boost at the same clock speed. That's not huge, but at this point I'd certainly wait for the merom bump if that's an option.

 

[Eidorian]

"the improvements Intel has put into their new laptop processors is significant"

Sounds good to me. I don't think most people here thought merom would "blow our socks off".

The benchmarks have been around for months, and have said about a 20% boost at the same clock speed. That's not huge, but at this point I'd certainly wait for the merom bump if that's an option.

Yeah. Core Duo (Yonah) to Core 2 Duo (Merom) isn't a big of a leap as Pentium D is to Conroe.

 

[Apple Corps]

the merom chips are faster than the yonahs but the same clock speed

intel will be pumping out 45nm chips in the 2H of 07, now that should cool things down substantially.

And why do you think that will cool things down?? Power consumption "vs" areal density tradeoffs.

 

[Dracula]

And why do you think that will cool things down?? Power consumption "vs" areal density tradeoffs.

die shrinks have historically bought cooler temperatures.

and it's not areal density, it's transistor size

look at the size of the cores:

the merom is freaking huge! compared to the yonah in macbooks and mbp's

 

[Apple Corps]

die shrinks have historically bought cooler temperatures.

and it's not areal density, it's transistor size

look at the size of the cores:

the merom is freaking huge! compared to the yonah in macbooks and mbp's

It is areal density and power consumption - smaller transistors more tightly packed can generate more internal heat as there is less surface area to radiate / conduct the heat away from the surface. Die shrink / size of HUGE core?? !!

 

[Pressure]

I think what you are missing here is the Working temps of the two chips. I am(or was) looking forward to C2D only coz it is supposed to run cooler than CD. Anyone has any info on that?

Yonah (Core Duo) has a Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 31W. Merom has a Thermal Design Power of 35W.

 

[DavidC1]

Yonah (Core Duo) has a Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 31W. Merom has a Thermal Design Power of 35W.

Its true Merom has higher TDP, but also has significantly bigger die(143mm2 to 90.3mm2), so in some cases it might dissipate heat better.

"the improvements Intel has put into their new laptop processors is significant"

Sounds good to me. I don't think most people here thought merom would "blow our socks off".

The benchmarks have been around for months, and have said about a 20% boost at the same clock speed. That's not huge, but at this point I'd certainly wait for the merom bump if that's an option.

The biggest thing is Merom is pin/electrical compatible with Yonah. Since you can just upgrade the chip, some people may consider it.

I think people should wait for more benchmarks, as the one in PC Per is a bit limited.

 

[Apple Corps]

DavidC1 - my guess is that Apple / Intel have heard all of the heat issues that they want to deal with. That said, I do believe that we are at the CONSUMER THERMAL TOLERANCE" limits - Merom can not run any hotter than what we are dealing with on Yonah or there will be a much louder CPO whine (consumer pi$$ed off) to be dealt with

Let's hope that WWDC provides some news on when Merom based MBPs will be shipping and what the thermal "profile" might be. We won't have to wait much longer.

 

[Apple Corps]

Yonah (Core Duo) has a Thermal Design Power (TDP) of 31W. Merom has a Thermal Design Power of 35W.

Pressure - could you expand a bit on TDP which number is better and its implications?

Thanks

 

[poppe]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=249

That was posted in another forum. Any truth behind this?

 

[Apple Corps]

Yikes - first read this:

Thermal Design Power
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Thermal Design Point)
The Thermal Design Power (TDP) (sometimes called Thermal Design Point) represents the maximum amount of power the thermal solution in a computer system is required to dissipate. For example, a laptop's CPU cooling solution may be designed for a 20 W TDP, which means that it can dissipate (either via an active cooling method such as a fan, a passive cooling method via natural convection, via heat radiation or all three modes of heat transfer) the heat generated by 20 watts without exceeding the maximum junction temperature for the part.

So.............. it sounds as if Merom REQUIRES a larger thermal dissipation design then Yonah. This makes it sound as if Apple will have to provide a better cooling system then is now in place - yes ??

 

[poppe]

Yikes - first read this:

Thermal Design Power
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
(Redirected from Thermal Design Point)
The Thermal Design Power (TDP) (sometimes called Thermal Design Point) represents the maximum amount of power the thermal solution in a computer system is required to dissipate. For example, a laptop's CPU cooling solution may be designed for a 20 W TDP, which means that it can dissipate (either via an active cooling method such as a fan, a passive cooling method via natural convection, via heat radiation or all three modes of heat transfer) the heat generated by 20 watts without exceeding the maximum junction temperature for the part.

So.............. it sounds as if Merom REQUIRES a larger thermal dissipation design then Yonah. This makes it sound as if Apple will have to provide a better cooling system then is now in place - yes ??

Maybe that means we could get a little redesign on them! But if it takes longer to get out then... that would make me sad...

 

[Apple Corps]

poppe - I am in need of a new laptop w/i the next month or so - thus I am caught with the Yonah or Merom decision - and time is one of the big issues for me - can't wait past mid September.

Everything touts that Merom is 20% more powerful due to its design AND draws less power. However - the TDP suggests more cooling is needed in the laptop design. Are you reading this the same way I am?

If so - some redesign of the cooling system will be needed (delays and / or different new problems introduced).

That would really muddy the water on my decision. Apple / QUANTA have hardly distinguished themselves with the MBP release.

 

[poppe]

poppe - I am in need of a new laptop w/i the next month or so - thus I am caught with the Yonah or Merom decision - and time is one of the big issues for me - can't wait past mid September.

Everything touts that Merom is 20% more powerful due to its design AND draws less power. However - the TDP suggests more cooling is needed in the laptop design. Are you reading this the same way I am?

If so - some redesign of the cooling system will be needed (delays and / or different new problems introduced).

That would really muddy the water on my decision. Apple / QUANTA have hardly distinguished themselves with the MBP release.

Yeah it makes it very hard on what to do... I guess only the Paris Expo, or WWDC can tell us what we need to know.

 

[Apple Corps]

http://blogs.zdnet.com/Apple/?p=249

That was posted in another forum. Any truth behind this?

poppe - good link - that would throw some serious doubt on the August / September time frame - plus some redesign of the cooling system if my earlier assumptions are correct.

OTOH - we know DELL, Lenovo, SONY, HP will be putting these onboard as soon as they can - Apple can not afford to fall behind because we are in an Intel to Intel comparison now. A number of sites have also reported that Intel is "insisting" that the chips be put in computers and made available w/i two weeks of the chip release. This may be related to Intel's market problems. Meroms have been shipping for about a week now.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

 

[poppe]

poppe - good link - that would throw some serious doubt on the August / September time frame - plus some redesign of the cooling system if my earlier assumptions are correct.

OTOH - we know DELL, Lenovo SONY, HP will be putting these onboard as soon as they can - Apple can not afford to fall behind because we are in an Intel to Intel comparison now. A number of sites have also reported that Intel is "insisting" that the chips be put in computers and made available w/i two weeks of the chip release. This may be related to Intel's market problems. Meroms have been shipping for about a week now.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm?

On an all since Apple and Intel seem to be such buddy buddies I couldn't see why Apple didn't expect this all along. I'm sure intel just didn't release a chip and say oops guess you'll have to redesign?

But yeah gives me a litte less confidence on August/September release.