Internalizing SCSI HD in a Mac Pro

[theblotted]

hi all, first post here.

in the past, i had a G5. managed to get a Seagate Cheetah SCSI HD in the B Bay, and connected via Miles U2W SCSI PCI card.

now, G5 gone, Mac Pro in.

i'm trying to figure out how i can continue to have a SCSI HD within Mac Pro. obviously the 4 drive bays don't work.

i've thought about using the 2nd optical drive space, but the wiring to come out thru that space, and out to a new ATTO UL5D SCSI card is difficult. plus, i would like to put another optical drive there.

any other possible solutions? can that extra space between the bottom fan and graphics card work? i currently only have the stock NVIDIA Geforce card, so there's extra space.

my concern would be whether the SCSI drive would be safe there... or would it cause problem with MoBo?

thanks.

 

[sblasl]

Have you considered an external case?

 

[CanadaRAM]

hi all, first post here.
in the past, i had a G5. managed to get a Seagate Cheetah SCSI HD in the B Bay, and connected via Miles U2W SCSI PCI card.
now, G5 gone, Mac Pro in.

i'm trying to figure out how i can continue to have a SCSI HD within Mac Pro. obviously the 4 drive bays don't work.
i've thought about using the 2nd optical drive space, but the wiring to come out thru that space, and out to a new ATTO UL5D SCSI card is difficult. plus, i would like to put another optical drive there.

any other possible solutions? can that extra space between the bottom fan and graphics card work? i currently only have the stock NVIDIA Geforce card, so there's extra space.
my concern would be whether the SCSI drive would be safe there... or would it cause problem with MoBo?
thanks.

I don't think there is any way to do this. The Miles card obviously will not work in the MacPro because it is PCI and the MacPro is PCI-e.
There is no external SCSI case I know of that presents a Firewire connection so that you could use it externally.
A new PCI-e SCSI Card if you could find one that is intel Mac compatible, will be expensive ($150 - $300)-- for the money you may as well just buy a SATA WD Raptor 10,000 RPM drive, which will be as fast or just about as the SCSI Cheetah (10K or 15K RPM), have a new warranty, and a lot less hassle.

Have you considered an external case?

Hooked up --- how? SCSI? Requires a case AND a new SCSI PCI-e card. Firewire? Finding a case will be difficult and the limits of the FW interface will obliterate the potential speed benefit of the hight RPM SCSI drive.

 

[jaguarx]

You'll need a PCI-e SCSI card but you can do it with an external case with no problem, there's plenty of them around. U320 SCSI kicks the **** out of a Raptor if you really need the speed.

 

[theblotted]

thanks for the replies so far.

i have no problem with PCIe SCSI card, cuz i've already ordered an ATTO UL5D. i found one cheap on eBay.

the reason why i need to go SCSI instead of external FW or internal Raptor for now, is cuz i already have the Cheetah, and i have some files that i need to retrieve from there.

i didn't mention in my original post, but my G5 actually died due to Liquid Cooling System leak, and i didn't have enough time to back up my files from the Cheetah; which i use for main working drive. (i do audio btw).

i've definitely considered an external case as a last resort. any recommendations for a SCSI external? cheap and stable would be great.

i found this thread from a different forum via Google, and somebody managed to fit SCSI HD in the optical drive, but i'm seeing if any other brave souls managed to do it other ways:

http://forums.highend.com/showthread.php?p=11666

 

[theblotted]

bump

 

[slughead]

install it this way:

http://www.tenthousandpercent.com/?article=65&section=other

except run the SCSI cable to your card and not to the mobo.

 

[CanadaRAM]

You'll need a PCI-e SCSI card but you can do it with an external case with no problem, there's plenty of them around. U320 SCSI kicks the **** out of a Raptor if you really need the speed.

See
http://www.storagereview.com/comparison.html
Choose the High End Drivemark 2006 -- content creation

 

[ToddSoc]

Hi theblotted:

One thing you may want to be aware of is that, as of today, you will not be able to use a SCSI drive as your boot drive in a Mac Pro with the UL5D. I learned this after three days, two techs, and three engineers at Atto...

Todd.

 

[sblasl]

Hi theblotted:

One thing you may want to be aware of is that, as of today, you will not be able to use a SCSI drive as your boot drive in a Mac Pro with the UL5D. I learned this after three days, two tech, and three engineers at Atto...

Todd.

Care to provide a little more info as to why? Why was yesterday the day selected that booting from a SCSI drive was no longer going to be allowed?

 

[theblotted]

slughead, thanks for that link. i knew about the brackets and optical drive bay, and i wanted to avoid that route so i can install my extra optical drive there... but it's still helpful nevertheless, should i decide to do so (as last resort).

ToddSoc, thanks for that info. must've been a tough 3 days there. i'm not planning on using the Cheetah as Boot Drive, but instead as a my main audio work drive (i do audio production). i will have my sessions and audio files all there, and the fast disk read will help the retrieval.

i am curious as to why it cannot work as boot drive also. care to share?

i'm still wondering if the SCSI drive will fit in space behind my graphics card, and whether if it's safe/wise to do so... any comments?

 

[ToddSoc]

It was last week that I tried to do it, and thus found out that it cannot be done at that time...

As to why it won't work, I actually didn't even ask. I was just disappointed and let it go.

Todd.

 

[slughead]

i'm still wondering if the SCSI drive will fit in space behind my graphics card, and whether if it's safe/wise to do so... any comments?

There's a few inches between the side panel and the video cards. If you can't fit the HD behind the card, try along side it.

Regardless of what you do, you're going to have to do a case mod.

Personally, I'd probably remove the SATA connector on one of the 4 HD bays and attempt to run install the HD there

 

[theblotted]

Personally, I'd probably remove the SATA connector on one of the 4 HD bays and attempt to run install the HD there

now that would be much preferred, as i'm only using 2 of 4 HD bays, leaving the other 2 empty..

is it difficult to remove the SATA connectors? any tutorials? or anything i should watch out for?

thanks again for all the help, everybody.

 

[slughead]

now that would be much preferred, as i'm only using 2 of 4 HD bays, leaving the other 2 empty..

is it difficult to remove the SATA connectors? anything i should watch out for?

thanks again for all the help, everybody.

I've never tried it. How hard could it be?

 

[moreover]

My solution is a cop out but why not find a user with a G5 who is willing to lend it for a day to temporarily install the scsi card and move the data? If you throw in some interesting barter item you might score. Or if you have an active Craigslist in your neck of the woods you could buy a suitable G5 for cheap and unload it asap on Craigslist once you're done. The G5 prices are rotten.

 

[theblotted]

I've never tried it. How hard could it be?

not sure.. i was under the impression that SATA connectors are connected pretty solid to the MoBo..

plus i was thinking, i wonder if the SCSI connectors will interfere with the MOBO or not..

moreover, i am also considering that option. and selling the Cheetah and ATTO afterwards for another SATA... hmmm..

which reminds me, anybody wanna buy a G5 casing with goodies (Airport card, bluetooth, FW800 PCI, Miles U2W SCSI PCI, graphics PCI, etc.)?

 

[theblotted]

so here's a quick update:

i went to Fry's and bought a metal 3.5" to 5.2" bracket. it costed me $3.99.

came home, installed it, fits perfectly. now, my Cheetah SCSI sits nicely in the optical bay.

Cheetah is getting power from 2nd power port of optical drive bay. since i couldn't get bus cable thru the corner (where all other cables run on MP), i managed to route it between where the optical drive bay handle is (some space there), flatten the cable so it runs between the SATA drives and MP cover.

SCSI showed up on Desktop. i was happy... until i heard the sound. this thing whirrs and hums like crazy. it's really LOUD.

perhaps i'm too spoiled by how silent MP is, cuz now this SCSI thing is driving me nuts. it emits a constant humming tone, and even if i keep a finger on the SCSI drive (access thru bottom optical drive slot in front) to quiet it down, still annoying.

i have my MP sitting underneath my desk, and since i do audio, having the computer quiet is huge for me. so now, i'm really debating whether i should keep this SCSI thing or not.

i suppose i can sell the SCSI system (HD, cable, PCIe, terminator) and replace it with SATAs.. or live with the noise and have a stable & fast HD to work from. hmm, decisions & decisions.

 

[slughead]

Cheetah is getting power from 2nd power port of optical drive bay. since i couldn't get bus cable thru the corner (where all other cables run on MP), i managed to route it between where the optical drive bay handle is (some space there), flatten the cable so it runs between the SATA drives and MP cover.

Clever! I would've never thought of that

SCSI showed up on Desktop. i was happy... until i heard the sound. this thing whirrs and hums like crazy. it's really LOUD.

Ah yes, I have a 10k RPM SATA in my optical bay with a pair of those brackets.. I think the brackets make it worse; make sure they're screwed in tight.

It's still not that bad.. I barely hear it.

 

[theblotted]

Slughead,

which bracket are you using for your SATA? was wondering if the brackets make a difference in sound or not.

i know that the internal SATA drives in MP is dead quiet. it's the SCSI drive that is whirring real loud. also, it's 15k rpm so that might do it. the weird thing is, SCSI drive sounds like it's spinning the whole time.. even if i eject/unmount from Disk Utility. is that normal?

btw, i used to have this SCSI drive in my old G5 (Dual 2.5 also), and i couldn't hear it whirring. perhaps it's because of the fans or i got used to the noise... but once it's in MP, it's REALLY obvious.

 

[slughead]

Slughead,

which bracket are you using for your SATA? was wondering if the brackets make a difference in sound or not.

These:
http://www.tenthousandpercent.com/files/raptor_in_drive_bay_136.jpg

 

[theblotted]

quick bump.

i've even unplugged the SCSI bus cable, and merely have power connected to the Cheetah. it still spins and hums, of which sounds like full speed to me.

is this normal for a SCSI HD? you SCSI users, can you confirm?

 

[FatTony]

I am trying to install a scsi HD in a PowerMac G5. I have a scsi card and the drive, but I'm not sure where to get the power inside the G5. It looks like the default SATA drive uses a different power cable.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Sesshi]

@ theblotted: It depends on the drive. I don't know old old that is but older drives are definitely noisier - some, a lot noisier. I remember the constant 'schoooooo' noise of the SCSI drives in a workstation I had a while back. Now the 15K SAS drives on my Precisions are pretty darned quiet given their performance.

You could try some isolation kits for 3.5" drives in 5.25" enclosures - pay a visit to http://www.silentpcreview.com/

 

[theblotted]

I am trying to install a scsi HD in a PowerMac G5. I have a scsi card and the drive, but I'm not sure where to get the power inside the G5. It looks like the default SATA drive uses a different power cable.

Any help is greatly appreciated.

you would use the power cable from optical drives. you can get one of them power cable Y splitters. that's how i did it, and it worked fine.

@ theblotted: It depends on the drive. I don't know old old that is but older drives are definitely noisier - some, a lot noisier. I remember the constant 'schoooooo' noise of the SCSI drives in a workstation I had a while back. Now the 15K SAS drives on my Precisions are pretty darned quiet given their performance.

You could try some isolation kits for 3.5" drives in 5.25" enclosures - pay a visit to http://www.silentpcreview.com/

thanks for the link. i still prefer internalizing than keeping it external.. unless it's last resort.

my SCSI HD is a Seagate Cheetah 15K, 18GB. i bought it about a year ago (brand new), so i would assume it's pretty recent.

i read on other threads regarding making their MacPro even more quiet using rubber washers @ SATA drives. perhaps i can try that with the SCSI drive.