iPad ipad in desktop mode : problems.

[mrLucas]

Hi, lately I started using iPad in dsktop mode (separate keyboard separate mouse)

So… Other than a really small screen (I ll contect it to a tv, so I guess that ll be fixed than) I feel the user interface of iPad feels kinda really bad - when using an external keybard and mouse..

It just isnt as good as on a mac, and I cant wrap my head around why… apple makses macs and macos es … why does ipad keyboard + mouse experince has to be so … wonky and weird?

also… is it better in iPadOS15? I am kinda hoping they fixed some of the stuff at lesat, since,, Ipad is kinda new to the desktop - laptop game, so I am hoping they are working on improving it….

thanks

 

[DFZD]

iPad OS is not yet meant to offer a PC like experience for people who use laptops and desktops a lot. It's meant to offer. a laptop like experience for people who don't use a PC that much.

Remember the ad for the iPad Pro?

They are really not trying to offer a classic computer experience at all.

I also bought an iPad Pro 2021 only for its specifications and not at all for its anticipated PC like capabilities that it may offer with future OS versions.

 

[mrLucas]

yeah… I get that I gues… Its just that.. Theres no reason really not to.

Like - lets take keyboard for instance - the implementation of external keyboard on ipados is just - HORRIBLE. theres no reason for it to be so bad…

Also, why does my mouse feel wonky? Its as if the drivers are not completely okay…. That being said, I am using special logitech drivers on my macosx but, why doesnt ipad implement that as well - since it supports the mouse anyway…


They already have it on osx how hard would it be to just - copy and paste it to ipad. both iphoneos and ipados are macosx based anyway. So under the hood its the same system, just with different gui, and certain different parts…



I guess.. its a bit un apple like.. Ususally apple will do a good job when they do decide to do something. Here I guess, they did decide to add the trackpad and keyboard , and also external keyboards and mouses to the iPad, and to try to make it a computer. So, why such a bad job?

Simply, my issue is not so much that the iPad is not a desktop OS, my issue is that its just bad. Put it differently - its not about ipad running mac OS, I dont really want that. Its about iPad adding a mouse and keyboard support - but VERY BADLY. why apple? Dont you usually do things well? Why do such a bad job here?


so yeah.. a bit of venitng. How do you find this yoruself?

 

[mrLucas]

iPad OS is not yet meant to offer a PC like experience for people who use laptops and desktops a lot. It's meant to offer. a laptop like experience for people who don't use a PC that much.

I mean.. from what you wrote I read - they are meant to offer inferior experience for people that dont know better. But is that really an acceptable standard?

 

[ericwn]

Do you have any specific examples that you feel are really bad implementations on the iPad side?

 

[mrLucas]

well lots of actually. lets start with scrolling with a mouse. it gives off a very inprecise feel - on a mac, if I scroll the moment I stop the scroll wheel - is the moment the scrolling stops. Not so on the iPad. on the ipad it just continues scrolling as if theres some momentum there for some reason. at least 1second lag - whic in computer terms is A LOT. (may paragrapsh of text). Also scrolling has the elastic bars on safari at the upper end and lower end of the page, the way you have with your finger. Thats fine for a finger (nice actually) not so for a mosue. Try scrolling to the top with a mouse and see what happens. basically the screen just gets stuck there. Thats not normal, and not good UI-UX.
Mouse movement seems simmilar. Something is wront with the acceleration deacceleration cureve on the mouse settings. Again it feels as if its lagging, and doesnt stop when I stop it, but continues going a bit (or something like that, it feels very inprecise, and I am using an MX2S - the best mouse in the world). Usually I am extremely good with a mosue (games, cs, graphic design and so on - I am super precise on a mac - not so on the ipad. on the ipad its as if I am using the mosue for hte first time in my life - but not for me but for very unprecise controll by the OS)

Lets talk about the keyboard. its an apple one. Most special keys dont even register and dont work. Fine. The whole keyboard doesnt work sometimes (pressing spacebar to search, sometimes I cant input text in the search box. )

Have you tried keyboard accebility and shortcuts? I hope you do aggree keyboard shortcuts are an integral part of the keyboard experience for everyone other than the tootal n00bs that really dont know better. (are there many of them thou?). So, shortcuts? yeah. Just try using htem , and tell me how bad your experience is. Most of the UI cant even be controled with the keyboard, but should be - if they added it in the first place.
Keyboard is only good for typing it seems. Thats not really what it showuld be used for exclusively - thats why you have special keys on the keybaord - to use it to control the system…

So basicaly, just a very ****** experience, for no reason.

Oh yeah. Try switching windows with the keyboard, using shortcuts, just try to be productive - they way you should be able to be. (I am assuming here that all the people on this forum have soome basicl levels of profficiency with computers and are not total noobs to begin with.)

…

I could go on and on, but I think its enought, and I dont really feel like doing so….

 

[mrLucas]

tldr:

unprecise mouse movement and scroling
lack of keyboard shortcuts, badly executed ones that exist
keyboard sometimes just doesnt work


+mostly not addapted ui-ux for keybaord and mouse

I dont know who can find this to be a good experience, and.. I am a bit surprised apple shipped this.

 

[mrLucas]

like, just try using an escape key in various scenarios and tell me if it works as expected
Right now, for reasons unknown I cant type with my keyboard at all - but can use it to open spotlight and switch between windows with cmd tab. iPad just decided keyboard should not type text at the moment. Id call that extremely buggy behaviour. Something for a beta or alpha version. Not a release product at all.

 

[sracer]

tldr:

unprecise mouse movement and scroling
lack of keyboard shortcuts, badly executed ones that exist
keyboard sometimes just doesnt work


+mostly not addapted ui-ux for keybaord and mouse

I dont know who can find this to be a good experience, and.. I am a bit surprised apple shipped this.

Apple really doesn't want to offer a full desktop-like experience. That is why they have a history of making incremental steps in expanding the iPad use cases toward a desktop-like experience. They...

1-take a tiny step.
2-assess the user feedback.
3-if the feedback is sufficiently positive... stop.
4-if the feedback is sufficiently negative, go to step 1.

This is the primary reason for my shifting away from iPad Pros and toward Samsung Galaxy tablets. Samsung offers a desktop-mode called DeX that offers a very desktop-like experience that addresses all of the deficiencies that I found with using an iPad Pro as a laptop.

 

[mrLucas]

that sounds horrible! Also quite accurate apple like…
who knows… maybe I ll reconsider as well..

Does it generally work okay? Is the ui lagging? What s your experience so far if you weret o compare it to the ipad, comparing the best ipad sides ?


BTW I also grew tired of Apple latelly. My last computer purchace was a step in that direction - buying an amd based hackintosh - completely custom offcourse. Its still Apple, but not really. I do use OSX still, for … well I guess for the fact Ive been using it for the last 10 years, so I am used to it now, and, I dont really like windows to be honest. Ever since they fckd the controllpanel introducig that confusing ******** of stuff I kinda look down on it. It seems windows 10 is a liitlebit better, but swithcing to OSX for me was amazing, since I really appreciated its UNIX roots. (at the time I didnt know it was UNIX I am linking I thought its osx. Truth be told I guess some stuff from NEXTStep went into OSX so it has quite a histiry, and is largely quite a usefull system.. and also quite powerfull in a nice way (just look at preferences and compare it to controlpanel to se what I mean)


Anyway.. being a poweruser, and since apple blew me off with itunes and aperture, both depreciated, where I kinda trusted them not to be, and invested quite a lot of time into them - making libraries and so on (I was even insane enought to convert my flac music to apple lossless, so you can imagine how angry I am at the sunseting of itunes.)

Anyway.. another way apple ****ed me lately is - since I got the iMac and you cant add hdds to imac (but you need them) that means you have to go buy an expensive NAS or DAS. Which I did. And it was quite expesive, it served well (Drobo) but if you have been following the news lately— droobs are dead, the company was bought and there are no new drobos in circulation. And you know whats great? My drobo just decided it wont show up in OSX. I kidna hope everything is still ok, and I am kinda going to manage to get my data off it, but I am also thinking of actually having to spend a small fortune to do it. (since.. It might require an extremely niche data recovery process. I dont even know where I am going to find experts to do it…) And basically ALL MY DATA for the last 20 years is on it. So you can imagine. (actually probbalby 25 years). Most of it is ireplacable - since I am in the creative fields.

So yeah. pretty great. I would NOT be here was it not for apple, since I wouldnt use a das, but just have a bunch of drives attached, and backups (much easier with a normal PC.)

anwyay…. just buying a normal pc and making a hackintosh out of it, for software compatibility was for me the first step I guerss out of apple ecosystem, and quite a big one acctually . Not that hard to just put windows on it now.

I am not saying I am leaving, but apple seems to be quite a deceptive compmany. Maybe it makes sence - its Adams and Eves Apple i think from the begginging. You remember the 666 priced mac?

anyway not to get to deep in conspiracy theories, its just a fun coincidance (or not) but, nevertheless apple has done quite a lot of shady unexpected things lately.

The thing with the - keyboard and mouse working horrible are just going in the same direction.


Now dont get me wrong, I kidna really like my ipad still. I love it. Its an amazing device. But, I feel Apple should work a bit, for a change.

I dont know how old are you, but I kinda miss the days around year 2000 when software developers were actually competeing to make GREAT programs packed with features, not competing to do the least amount of work for the most amount of money… kida sad time for the whole software industry at large.

 

[sracer]

Rather than try to describe it, here are some videos of DeX in action...

Basically, with a tap of a key combination, Galaxy tabs can switch from tablet mode to desktop mode.

 

[mrLucas]

Thanks I ll take a look. I think a windows machine might be more suited for me thiu… not sure about android, maybe I am not knowldgeable enought, but to me it seems its just like an ipad only wih much less apps? Am I worng? I ll take a longer lok at the videos tomorow probbalby

(Somehow - the first thing I heard in this video is ”this is not a replacement for desktop” 😂)

 

[sracer]

Thanks I ll take a look. I think a windows machine might be more suited for me thiu… not sure about android, maybe I am not knowldgeable enought, but to me it seems its just like an ipad only wih much less apps? Am I worng? I ll take a longer lok at the videos tomorow probbalby

(Somehow - the first thing I heard in this video is ”this is not a replacement for desktop” 😂)

Mobile operating systems are not a formal replacement for desktop operating systems. But depending upon a person's needs and use cases, a mobile OS can indeed replace a desktop OS.

Android is far closer in functionality to a desktop operating system like Linux, Mac OS, and Windows than iOS/iPad OS are.

You started this thread lamenting the state of desktop-like functionality with the iPad Pro. So clearly you would like for your mobile device to act more like a desktop device when you need it to. Given the current state of iPad OS, you can only go so far in that direction. It sounds like you have reached that limit.

You can ditch the iPad Pro and go directly to Windows, or you can take a look at Android (and Samsung Galaxy tabs with DeX in particular). I believe that Android can take you further in that direction. Depending upon your needs, it might not fully get you there and nothing short of MacOS or Windows will meet that need.

I have an extensive amount of experience with iPad OS, Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Android, and Chrome OS and I'm very encouraged by how well DeX is working as bridge device between purely mobile and desktop slots.

 

[DFZD]

I mean.. from what you wrote I read - they are meant to offer inferior experience for people that dont know better. But is that really an acceptable standard?

I am not sure if you watched the today's keynote for the iPad launches.

Tim Cook again mentioned this and called the whole iPad OS experience as Touch-first. Which to me, makes a lot of sense, but I'm really not a person who would use an iPad as a laptop, and prefer to do all the typing and actual work stuff on my MBP.

iPad is really not meant to replace laptops, and quite frankly for your particular use case, the Macbook Air is far more suited device. I hope apple offers some kind of iOS-esque experience (single window apps?) in the future so that people get more from their airbooks.

 

[DFZD]

Mobile operating systems are not a formal replacement for desktop operating systems. But depending upon a person's needs and use cases, a mobile OS can indeed replace a desktop OS.

Android is far closer in functionality to a desktop operating system like Linux, Mac OS, and Windows than iOS/iPad OS are.

You started this thread lamenting the state of desktop-like functionality with the iPad Pro. So clearly you would like for your mobile device to act more like a desktop device when you need it to. Given the current state of iPad OS, you can only go so far in that direction. It sounds like you have reached that limit.

You can ditch the iPad Pro and go directly to Windows, or you can take a look at Android (and Samsung Galaxy tabs with DeX in particular). I believe that Android can take you further in that direction. Depending upon your needs, it might not fully get you there and nothing short of MacOS or Windows will meet that need.

I have an extensive amount of experience with iPad OS, Windows, Linux, Mac OS, Android, and Chrome OS and I'm very encouraged by how well DeX is working as bridge device between purely mobile and desktop slots.

While these dual use-case devices offer good value on paper, they really are not stellar at either of the uses. Like crossover cars to give you an analogy.

Samsung makes good hardware but the whole Android tablet experience is not at par with it's own mobile portrait experience, let alone the streamlined experience of iOS. And I'm quite sure the desktop experience isn't on par with what Windows offers, again let alone what Mac OS does.

But I guess for casual users, a cross device isn't really a neither here nor there approach like for some professionals.

 

[mrLucas]

Tim Cook again mentioned this and called the whole iPad OS experience as Touch-first. Which to me, makes a lot of sense, but I'm really not a person who would use an iPad as a laptop, and prefer to do all the typing and actual work stuff on my MBP.

You know.. Apple makes a keyboard for the ipad that costs around 250 euros in the place where I live. 250 euros. for a keyboard. I am amazed at myself that I actyally want to pay that and buy it…
BUT, lets be at least a little bit sane here xD If I m gonna shell out that kind of money on a single keyboard with a trackpad, I am gonna expect it to be amazing, right? I could buy literal gold for the same amount….

Anyay… my thing is - I am thinking of buying a magic keyboard for ipad but I am pretty disapointed with how ipad works with an external keybaord and amouse. NOT as polished as I would expect from apple.


I didnt see tim Cook talk about ipad being touch first, but this naturally makes sence to me. I dont think making ipad a keyboard an mouse forst would make much sence… That being said - the keyboard and mouse experience should be good still.


As for the android, I like the concept , looks pretty great. Would be amazing if apple made this for iPad , but I dont think apple would do this. As for android at large, I dont think it makes mych sence for me to make a jump to the android. Being a very demanding customer, android would probbably still not fit my needs, and I would loose the Apple polishess that I like, also access to a bigger app store… I dont really see big arguments here for me, since I am already into the apple ecosystem, and, I would need android to be a full fletched windows OS for it to make sence to me…. anyway…


I guess my biggest thing here is - the implementation of a keyboard and mouse on the ipad IS NOT APPLE LIKE, has a lot of bugs, and doesnt work as expected. But - I expect android to be even more buggy and much worse, since generally I think android is at large more laggy and buggy with much less polished features… Am I rignt?



Anywyas guys, thanks for the replays, I appreciate it

 

[mrLucas]

OKAY >. LET ME FIX THAT STATMENT.



I HAVE NEVER EVER IN MY LIFE SEEN ANYTHING AS BAD AS THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE KEYBOARD ON THE IPAD.

I CANT IMAGINE THE BIGEST IDIOT IN THE WORLD COULD DO SUCH A BAD JOB, AS APPLE ENGINEERS DID WITH THIS ****** KEYBOARD IMPLEMENTATION.. Wish steve was still in apple so he could just fire a bunch of guys that were given the task to implement external keyboards to the ipad.l JUST HORRIBLE. WORST EVER.



p.s . you cant even PAUSE a youtube video with a spacebar

 

[Macintosh101]

OKAY >. LET ME FIX THAT STATMENT.



I HAVE NEVER EVER IN MY LIFE SEEN ANYTHING AS BAD AS THE IMPLEMENTATION OF THE KEYBOARD ON THE IPAD.

I CANT IMAGINE THE BIGEST IDIOT IN THE WORLD COULD DO SUCH A BAD JOB, AS APPLE ENGINEERS DID WITH THIS ****** KEYBOARD IMPLEMENTATION.. Wish steve was still in apple so he could just fire a bunch of guys that were given the task to implement external keyboards to the ipad.l JUST HORRIBLE. WORST EVER.



p.s . you cant even PAUSE a youtube video with a spacebar

I’m not sure what you mean. I have an M1 iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard attached and I can pause videos with the space bar, on both Safari and the YouTube App.

As for your other points, I guess it comes down to individual preference. I have a MacBook Pro 16” and an iPad Pro 12.9”. I use my iPad Pro entirely for work, podcast production and a bunch of other stuff. The only time I use my MacBook Pro for is music production, everything else I get done on the iPad.

I should also say that iPadOS15 has significantly improved support for keyboard shortcuts if that’s your thing. I also find the mouse implementation on iPad to be great, but that‘s using the trackpad on the Magic keyboard, or an external mouse made by Apple.

 

[mrLucas]

I guess I got quite a bit annoyed when I wrote that message..
_
Hope we get it soon, and that Apple extended shortcuts in a meaningfull way as you say!

Well, it has to do with using accesability with keyboard. Actually most of my complains with keyboard are about the way the accesability is implemented with the keyboard. Like for instance - window switcher should be available from the keyboard - and it is - but only when using accesability, but when you do that - spacebar doesnt pause youtube videos. So its pretty annoying. You have to choose either to use keyboard for stuff like opening the window switcher, or use it to pause videos in youtube… I think it should be both. Also another think I found not to be great, is that theres no way to actually open a single app window switcher using the keyboard at all (the thing you get when you are inside an app and bring up the dock and click on the app icon..)

Theese are the things I use on my mac daily, and I see them as necesarry for keyboard and mouse usage of the ipad. Other than that - ipad has very very very nice swipes shortcuts and so on - that you can do with a hand. It just needs better implementation of the keyboard, and hope this really gets fixed with the IPados15.


btw.. I don use apple mouses btw.. they are really just not that good compared to the LogitechMX2S and 3S

________


if someone from apple is reading - basically give us MAC LEVEL controlls of ipad with a mouse keyboard combo. So give us all the keyboard shortcuts (plus some, ipad specific) , and give us stuff like expose / hot corners with functions we have on a MAC


Basically my thing is - ipad is great as an ipad, BUT ipad should feel like a MAC when I get a keybaord and mouse. So - implement mac stuff and itll be great. For me - thats full keyboard shortcuts + hot corners with options like show all windows, and show windows of the current app. I use a show desktop as a hot corner as well , on ipad thats show homescreen. So give us theese thigns, plus some - like nice stuff regarding window management - as a both keyboard shortcut and mouse hot corner so we can choose.

This is what I EXPECT from a company like Apple , when they decide to immplement something like a keyboard and mosue. - Do a really great job at it - not do a lousy job.

Oh , another thing I miss and use alot on a mac is CTRL+Scroll to Zoom. Its an amazing feature, you hold CTRL and scroll your mouse and you do a full screen zoom. Its such a great feature…. Theese things are reasons I am not using windows but stich with a mac.

But they should also be implemented to ipad, to give both devices an uniform feel - I guess what apple wants to do.




heres another thing. Keyboard CTRL + left arrow / right arrow, should switch between spaces like on a mac. So I should be able to switch thru all the open windows doing this….

All this should already be implemented if apple decited to get the keyboard on the ipad. This way - its very half baked, and not adequate

 

[ofarlig]

p.s . you cant even PAUSE a youtube video with a spacebar

Yes you can, I do it all the time with the Magic Keyboard.

As for most of you gripes they are there just that some are done in a different fashion from the Mac. Many are also coming in iPadOS 15 next week.

 

[DFZD]

Basically my thing is - ipad is great as an ipad, BUT ipad should feel like a MAC when I get a keybaord and mouse. So - implement mac stuff and itll be great.

We all here hope that would happen but honestly not many are holding our horses for that to actually happen and have found peace with that fact. I've had a keyboard case with my iPad Retina 1, and still remember how bad the whole thing felt and never tried it again, but I have seen a lot of people use it now with the larger iPads. But honestly don't expect apple to merge high end iPads with Mac OS to actually kill low end Macbooks. They will keep trying to sell us both until a lot of us are buying high end iPads and the low end macbook sales no longer matter.

 

[mrLucas]

Yes you can, I do it all the time with the Magic Keyboard.

As for most of you gripes they are there just that some are done in a different fashion from the Mac. Many are also coming in iPadOS 15 next week.

But can you do it if you have ‘Accebility : Keyboard controll’ turned ON?

Tell me if you can BOTH - pause a youtube video with a spacebar, and also open windowswitcher using the cmt alt tab. You cant, I dont think so…

As for most of you gripes they are there just that some are done in a different fashion from the Mac. Many are also coming in iPadOS 15 next week.

Can you back up that with examples? I did a very extensive look into the ipad cmmands, and I can guarantee you - no they are not. But if you claim they are, back it up with examples. I really tried to find ways to do this and if you know a way that would be helpful. but please dont just dissaper now, when you realise there is no way to do it…

 

[Cheffy Dave]

POOF!

 

[ofarlig]

But can you do it if you have ‘Accebility : Keyboard controll’ turned ON?

Tell me if you can BOTH - pause a youtube video with a spacebar, and also open windowswitcher using the cmt alt tab. You cant, I dont think so…



Can you back up that with examples? I did a very extensive look into the ipad cmmands, and I can guarantee you - no they are not. But if you claim they are, back it up with examples. I really tried to find ways to do this and if you know a way that would be helpful. but please dont just dissaper now, when you realise there is no way to do it…

I don’t use the accessibility features so cannot say anything about pausing then. As for appswitchers I use CMD + Tab like on the Mac, for what Apple calls exposé on Mac there is no keyboard shortcuts right now on iPadOS 14 (I just pull the mouse down for that). But if you use iPadOS 15 you have more choices here where you are able to access the next/previous app thing, expóse type app switcher and window management in the app shelf.

As for other things I do not understand what your actual gripes are from your text, mostly because I don’t understand a lot of what you wrote.

 

[960design]

Hi, lately I started using iPad in dsktop mode (separate keyboard separate mouse)

What about your phone?