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subjonas

macrumors 603
Original poster
Feb 10, 2014
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In my opinion, the iPad's real inherent weakness is text entry. It's the problem that causes all the other problems, including the mouse dilemma.

Compared to laptops, the iPad has inherent strengths and weaknesses. The strengths are obviously its versatile form factor (slate can be held, mounted, touched, drawn on) and high portability (usually smaller so it can be taken to more places). The weaknesses (of tablets in general) are poor text entry, less information+controls on screen at once (because of touch UI and screen size limitation), less power (because of device size limitation), and using it on a surface is more cumbersome as it requires a stand accessory. All these disadvantages are probably negligible for most people--except I believe for text entry.

Using the virtual keyboard takes away half your screen real estate. Plus to use it even remotely quickly you have to put the iPad down and use two hands which requires some sort of stand and, more importantly, negates one of the key strengths of using an iPad. And even then it's not as fast and accurate as a physical keyboard. If you use a physical keyboard, you again have to put the iPad down and lose one of the key strengths of an iPad, and also stand it up which basically changes it back into a laptop form factor but without a solid base, and without a pointing device which is the most efficient way to navigate with a horizontal keyboard and vertical screen--hence the widespread complaints for mouse support.

The reason for all of this is that we are using a keyboard on a form factor it was never designed for.

Say for a moment, Apple somehow gave the iPad a better form of text input well-suited for tablet use--requiring only one hand, not taking up a significant portion of the screen, and comparable to a physical keyboard in speed and accuracy--the iPad could then sufficiently replace laptop functionality for most people while retaining all of its inherent strengths, and not requiring any transformation or borrowing input methods from other form factors. It would be ideal.

But of course such a text input solution is very difficult, maybe even impossible, otherwise it would have been done by now. Handwriting recognition, voice dictation, and other innovations like Swype--all fall short for various reasons.

Realistically we're stuck with the regular keyboard, which means the only choices the iPad has is to either make another step toward being a hybrid or continue enduring the cries for mouse support. But whatever Apple chooses, if the keyboard doesn't change, the iPad has to transform and lose a key strength whenever anyone wants to do the basic task of inputting text, which I think is the real underlying problem.

Like I said, this post is pointless, since nothing can be done, but it's something to talk about.
 
People would have a really hard time adapting to a new way of typing. Even smaller physical keyboard sizes seem hard to some, let alone programmable ones. To me the virtual keyboard on the largest IPad is actually really nice to type on. I don't even want a physical keyboard for it as my typing speed is good.

Having a built in kickstand like the Surface Pro would be great though as you definitely need to put the pad down for typing or at least rest it on your knee.
 
The weaknesses (of tablets in general) are poor text entry,
I'm a big proponent for getting the right tool for the job, and if you have a lot of data entry, then a laptop will definitely be better.

Apple knows this and they're not looking to make the tablet something its not, nor are they trying to make their laptop something its not. We'll not see a convergence of laptop/tablets from apple like we are seeing from other companies.

I don't have a lot of data entry, but I do find the screen keyboard to be adequate. I'll be buying the ASK as well, and that will get me over the hump of using Excel, or my kids using the tablet for homework.
 
If you're using a separate Bluetooth keyboard, not just a type cover, then typing is fine when you're on a table.

The ability to have an on-screen keyboard actually gives the iPad more versatility. On the 10.5" using the split keyboard makes typing almost as easy as typing on an iPhone with two hands.

Really, I just wish I could have Surface Pro's type cover and hinge on an iPad.
 
The ASK is a beast - around the house or office I can carry this thing with a few fingers in the back triangle when the keyboard is out and carry / throw around the display to others in ways I would never do with a MacBook
 
I think I’m missing OP’s point as I can touch type on the ASK, remove it with a light pull, snap it on again. It’s fast, swift, light weigh and not screwed on. It doesn’t use separate batteries and it’s power consumption can be neglected.
Is a mechanical keyboard better? For some it might be, but for me the 10.5 and 12.9 ASK are near perfect.

So what is the problem with tablets not being suitable for text entry?
Again, serious question, not trying to be smart.
 
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I have been using the Apple Smart Keyboard, first on the 9.7" Pro and now on the 10.5" Pro. I love it. I can type just as fast on the ASK as I can on my Magic Keyboard or my Macbook Air's keyboard. The 9.7" model was a bit cramped and wasn't ideal for long form typing, but the 10.5" model is now my main keyboard for most things.

There is one variable on this that has completely changed for me with the 10.5" Pro. I have never been able to type on the onscreen keyboard with a 9.7" or 7.9" iPad. With the 10.5" Pro, the onscreen keyboard works surprisingly well for me. I've been practicing using it for the last several days and have realized that I can place my hands in normal typing position on the 10.5" and make hardly any mistakes. I'm not quite as fast as on the ASK (yet), but it's good enough for the times when I just want to bring my Smart Cover and not my ASK.
 
If your workflow requires a lot of keyboarding and document creation (writing, spreadsheets, presentations) then a laptop is really the better tool for the job. It isn't just the connected keyboard that makes the difference. Trackpads provide precision pointing, and the Mac OS is really optimized for the keyboard/mouse interface. The iPad's OS is optimized for touch interface.

I am not knocking the iPad. It is a very versatile device, and you can enhance the typing experience with a separate physical keyboard. Also, iOS 11 will make improvements to the virtual keyboard with Quick Type KB. So, you can definitely create documents with an iPad.....it's just easier on a laptop. A lot of people will get by just fine with an iPad as their primary content creation device if their documents are relatively routine and not extremely lengthy. Also, I find that it helps a lot to use the predefined templates that come with the productivity apps.

All of that said, why force it? You can purchase an MBA for $800 on sale and a 2017 iPad for $300, so that's $1,100.....not bad. In the old days having two devices was a pain, but today, iCloud syncing and continuity features make the whole experience rather seamless. Use the device that is best suited for the task at hand. Or, use both devices in tandem to enhance productivity with two screens. Take the iPad on vacation or when you need to do lighter content creation. Use the laptop for heavy content creation with significant keyboarding.
 
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If you're using a separate Bluetooth keyboard, not just a type cover, then typing is fine when you're on a table.

The ability to have an on-screen keyboard actually gives the iPad more versatility. On the 10.5" using the split keyboard makes typing almost as easy as typing on an iPhone with two hands.

Really, I just wish I could have Surface Pro's type cover and hinge on an iPad.
I pretty much use it exclusively in Split Keyboard mode. I don’t want to put my iPad down to type in almost any situation. I’m pretty accurate at it too after using it a couple of thousands of hours.
 
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Have you tried out the Apple Pencil as a substitute for the mouse? I know it's not comparable to a mouse, but it's great for mark, highlight and edit text. You'll be able to quickly move around a document without having to press your fingers and move around the screen. I'm using it for almost everything. What's great about it is that the pen is long so you'll able to move and extend it to all corners by slightly moving your wrist the same way as on aMacBook's trackpad.
 
My solution: iPad mini in portrait mode. Easy to hold and just as easy to type as on an iPhone, and the keyboard maybe takes up 1/3 of the screen. Ive never really seen data entry as an issue with this iPad :D
 
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Apple Bluetooth magic keyboard. Same keyboard as iMacs. I use that for typing intensive things with the iPad in a wooden stand, it looks like a mini desktop setup! Typing is not an issue for me.

ecdd25a5948a5e6efe6c435e690e26fe.jpg
 
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Apple Bluetooth magic keyboard. Same keyboard as iMacs. I use that for typing intensive things with the iPad in a wooden stand, it looks like a mini desktop setup! Typing is not an issue for me.

ecdd25a5948a5e6efe6c435e690e26fe.jpg
Great way to do it. I have gotten more and more comfortable with the iPad Pro 10.5" onscreen keyboard, and I think if I had the 12.9", I would do it exactly like you're doing it. Use the Magic Keyboard that I already own to type at home, use the onscreen keyboard to type on the go.
 
But of course such a text input solution is very difficult, maybe even impossible, otherwise it would have been done by now..
Yes, welcome to reality.
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Really, I just wish I could have Surface Pro's type cover and hinge on an iPad.

Surface Pro's type cover is obviously the better design solution.The problem is apple cannot incorporate this solution without validating MS. I can't imagine the kickstand is patented.
 
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I'm a big proponent for getting the right tool for the job, and if you have a lot of data entry, then a laptop will definitely be better.

Apple knows this and they're not looking to make the tablet something its not, nor are they trying to make their laptop something its not. We'll not see a convergence of laptop/tablets from apple like we are seeing from other companies.

I don't have a lot of data entry, but I do find the screen keyboard to be adequate. I'll be buying the ASK as well, and that will get me over the hump of using Excel, or my kids using the tablet for homework.

I’m also a proponent of using the right tool, but part of my argument is that I think Apple IS looking to make the iPad into something it’s not (or wasn’t). By giving it the ASK, advertising it as a laptop replacement, and now with iOS 11 introducing two handed gestures, it almost seems like Apple expects the iPad Pros to be used with a keyboard most of the time, or at least on a table most of the time.


The ability to have an on-screen keyboard actually gives the iPad more versatility. On the 10.5" using the split keyboard makes typing almost as easy as typing on an iPhone with two hands.

I pretty much use it exclusively in Split Keyboard mode. I don’t want to put my iPad down to type in almost any situation. I’m pretty accurate at it too after using it a couple of thousands of hours.

My solution: iPad mini in portrait mode. Easy to hold and just as easy to type as on an iPhone, and the keyboard maybe takes up 1/3 of the screen. Ive never really seen data entry as an issue with this iPad :D

I didn’t realize they added the split keyboard back on the “medium” iPads. I agree, split keyboard actually helps a lot. It doesn’t take up as much screen real estate as the regular virtual keyboard, and it allows you to type without having to change your body position / move to a place to put the iPad down (split keyboard on the bigger iPads is much like typing on a mini in portrait). But it does still take up a significant portion of the screen, and anything longer than a few sentences I think starts to become painful when compared to using a physical keyboard. Very acceptable tradeoffs for some, maybe not so much for others.


Nope, you don't, not with the iPad mini.

Right, but I was talking about the bigger iPads, in the context of the whole idea of laptop replacement, which the mini doesn’t try to do. The mini knows exactly what it is, it doesn't overextend, which is actually why it’s my favorite iPad.


The ASK is a beast - around the house or office I can carry this thing with a few fingers in the back triangle when the keyboard is out and carry / throw around the display to others in ways I would never do with a MacBook

I use an Apple Bluetooth keyboard when I need to type notes in meetings at work (they did not issue me a laptop). Having the full size keys ensures my fingers are not cramped and I have fewer errors when typing on the iPad.

Apple Bluetooth magic keyboard. Same keyboard as iMacs. I use that for typing intensive things with the iPad in a wooden stand, it looks like a mini desktop setup! Typing is not an issue for me.

I have been using the Apple Smart Keyboard, first on the 9.7" Pro and now on the 10.5" Pro. I love it. I can type just as fast on the ASK as I can on my Magic Keyboard or my Macbook Air's keyboard. The 9.7" model was a bit cramped and wasn't ideal for long form typing, but the 10.5" model is now my main keyboard for most things.

I think I’m missing OP’s point as I can touch type on the ASK, remove it with a light pull, snap it on again. It’s fast, swift, light weigh and not screwed on. It doesn’t use separate batteries and it’s power consumption can be neglected.
Is a mechanical keyboard better? For some it might be, but for me the 10.5 and 12.9 ASK are near perfect.

So what is the problem with tablets not being suitable for text entry?
Again, serious question, not trying to be smart.

I also appreciate the versatility of the slate form factor, and the ASK works well enough for me too (Magic Keyboard would probably as well). The point I was making about physical keyboards was that: 1) the unique strength of a slate is that you can hold it and use it at the same time. You lose that strength every time you need to put the iPad down to type with a physical keyboard, which if you're being productive is probably pretty often. And 2) typing with a physical keyboard without a pointing device is a pain point for those who need to frequently switch between typing and pointing. But that pain point wouldn’t exist if we didn’t need a physical keyboard. But if these don’t apply/matter to you, then of course my original post probably doesn’t relate to you either. Personally, I’m indifferent about #2, and I am bothered by #1 only from time to time.

Alecgold, I guess ultimately my point is simply that it’s sad that apparently a slate has to become not a slate in order to become productive. And I wonder if poor text input is really an inherent weakness of the slate form factor, or if it simply hasn’t found a good solution yet.


People would have a really hard time adapting to a new way of typing. Even smaller physical keyboard sizes seem hard to some, let alone programmable ones. To me the virtual keyboard on the largest IPad is actually really nice to type on. I don't even want a physical keyboard for it as my typing speed is good.

Having a built in kickstand like the Surface Pro would be great though as you definitely need to put the pad down for typing or at least rest it on your knee.

I agree people would have a hard time adapting to any new method of text input. I think that may be an even bigger roadblock than actually creating the new method.

Some may be able to get proficient on the virtual keyboard, but the best virtual qwerty keyboard typists will never be nearly as fast and accurate as the best physical qwerty keyboard typists. And the other big issue with the virtual keyboard is that it takes up half the screen, which is a huge hindrance on productivity. And constantly having to be show and hide the keyboard, majorly shifting around the elements on the screen each time, is an annoyance.


If your workflow requires a lot of keyboarding and document creation (writing, spreadsheets, presentations) then a laptop is really the better tool for the job. It isn't just the connected keyboard that makes the difference. Trackpads provide precision pointing, and the Mac OS is really optimized for the keyboard/mouse interface. The iPad's OS is optimized for touch interface.

I am not knocking the iPad. It is a very versatile device, and you can enhance the typing experience with a separate physical keyboard. Also, iOS 11 will make improvements to the virtual keyboard with Quick Type KB. So, you can definitely create documents with an iPad.....it's just easier on a laptop. A lot of people will get by just fine with an iPad as their primary content creation device if their documents are relatively routine and not extremely lengthy. Also, I find that it helps a lot to use the predefined templates that come with the productivity apps.

All of that said, why force it? You can purchase an MBA for $800 on sale and a 2017 iPad for $300, so that's $1,100.....not bad. In the old days having two devices was a pain, but today, iCloud syncing and continuity features make the whole experience rather seamless. Use the device that is best suited for the task at hand. Or, use both devices in tandem to enhance productivity with two screens. Take the iPad on vacation or when you need to do lighter content creation. Use the laptop for heavy content creation with significant keyboarding.

I practically agree with everything you said. I have a Mac + iPad setup and am content with it. I’m mostly just talking about a theoretical that could solve everyone else’s problems more ideally.


Have you tried out the Apple Pencil as a substitute for the mouse? I know it's not comparable to a mouse, but it's great for mark, highlight and edit text. You'll be able to quickly move around a document without having to press your fingers and move around the screen. I'm using it for almost everything. What's great about it is that the pen is long so you'll able to move and extend it to all corners by slightly moving your wrist the same way as on aMacBook's trackpad.

I personally don’t feel the need to use a mouse with my iPad. But I agree, the Pencil is great for accurate work. In fact, I wouldn’t mind if all of iOS was designed around the Pencil, with smaller targets. It would have the versatility of the slate form factor plus the precision and productivity of pointer-designed desktop software. And I wouldn’t mind using handwriting recognition as a main method of text input, assuming the recognition worked well, though it still wouldn’t be as fast as typing. The only thing is it would require always having the Pencil around, which is probably a deal-breaker for most.


Surface Pro's type cover is obviously the better design solution.The problem is apple cannot incorporate this solution without validating MS. I can't imagine the kickstand is patented.

I could be wrong but I think the friction kickstand is patented by MS.
 
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