All iPads iPads shouldn't run macOS - Stage Manager shows it clearly

[AlexESP]

When it was introduced, I was skeptical about Stage Manager. I always thought that a classical window management system wouldn't work on a touch-based device, but I have confidence in Apple when it comes to this sort of stuff. In the end, it's been a failure.

Some people argued that this shows Apple should implement a macOS-like interface, or even macOS directly. This doesn't make any sense. Apple has adapted windows in SM so that controls (resize handle, top bar...) have the precision of a fingertip, and that they replicate the metaphors we're used to in touch-first devices (for example, dragging instead of tapping). Even then, the experience sucks.

So imagine how bad a macOS-like interface, with traffic light buttons, infinite resize and positions, etc. would be. Well, we don't even have to imagine: we have dozens of Windows 10/11 so-called tablets out there, and no one* use them as tablets.

In the end, I think the professional potential of the iPad goes in line with maximizing the iPad-like, single-window interface. There are tons of AR, illustration, video editing, etc. apps. Customers use them professionally. Some people think making the iPad a professional device means making it a subpar PC. No professional user would buy that.

 

[Rafterman]

Stage Manager is nowhere near the multitasking and windowing capabilities of MacOS. Just because Stage Manager isn't great has zero to do with iPads and their ability to run MacOS.

I''m not sure why people are so quick to cheer getting less. As if Apple is telling us what's good for us amd you'll like it. With a few tweaks to the user interface, MacOS would work fine on iPads.

If Apple sold a Surface Pro like device running MacOS, people would lose their bleep over it. Just like they pizzzzed on large screen phones. "Oh, large screen phones are laughable, no one wnats that." Now, the iPhone Pro Max is their best seller.

 

[MayaUser]

stage manager should work only with external monitor for the ipad , thats the only place where it shines

 

[okkibs]

In the end, I think the professional potential of the iPad goes in line with maximizing the iPad-like, single-window interface.

That and running desktop MacOS apps aren't mutually exclusive.

Apple is currently making MacOS look more and more like iOS/iPadOS and to me both are for all intents and purposes identical, except one is optimized for touch and the other for keyboard and mouse. That doesn't need to change. As you said it wouldn't work.

What really sets the two apart is that iOS/iPadOS cannot run MacOS (native ARM) apps. (It works the other way around just fine and there is not reason the iPad hardware couldn't do it, the Pro has the same M1 chip.)

My workflow requires me to open multiple instances of Safari. The iPad Pro could easily handle it with the 8GiB M1 but iPadOS has no ability to launch multiple instances of an app. I also need to test websites with different browsers and browser engines, but on iPadOS all browsers are Safari under the hood, it's merely a different UI with the Firefox/Chrome/whatever branding.

 

[JamesTheMac]

Hate to admit it, but for me, if I want to get the most productive work done on the road I have to resort to a Surface Pro, (or even the Surface Go 3 works better for me if I want to travel light). It provides me with a quick and efficient way of having multiple windows open, and that I can switch between, without the faff of snapping views and piles.

This trying to keep the touch interface on an iPad to one screen doesn't work efficiently for me. I wish it did, as I don't really like Windows. But when time is money, I have to go with the most efficient route,

Having a full floating windowed version of iPadOS, even if it was only active when the keyboard was attached would bring the best of both worlds for me, and allow me to completely switch from Windows.

 

[Rafterman]

Hate to admit it, but for me, if I want to get the most productive work done on the road I have to resort to a Surface Pro, (or even the Surface Go 3 works better for me if I want to travel light). It provides me with a quick and efficient way of having multiple windows open, and that I can switch between, without the faff of snapping views and piles.

This trying to keep the touch interface on an iPad to one screen doesn't work efficiently for me. I wish it did, as I don't really like Windows. But when time is money, I have to go with the most efficient route,

Having a full floating windowed version of iPadOS, even if it was only active when the keyboard was attached would bring the best of both worlds for me, and allow me to completely switch from Windows.

The Surface is highly under appreciated. All MS has to do is tweak the Windows 11 interface a little bit, and it would crush it.

 

[okkibs]

What if Apple were already planning exactly this for a long time already? Make MacOS look almost identical to iOS/iPadOS, make it run iOS/iPadOS apps, make it run on the same ARM hardware, and eventually integrate the touch UI into MacOS and deprecate iOS/iPadOS completely.

Then iPads can switch the UI depending on whether the magic keyboard accessoire is connected.

That would perfectly explain why MacOS looks more similar to iOS/iPadOS now than ever before and it would fit in with their Mac ARM transition. Reducing all devices to a single OS codebase also reduces software complexity.

 

[cupcakes2000]

Then iPads can switch the UI depending on whether the magic keyboard accessoire is connected.

But what happens to the stuff you’re working on when you pick up your iPad and sit in the sofa? There is no way Apple would do this, and no way it would really work very well anyway.

 

[Mcuserr]

I find it average pretty much useless on my 11" M1 iPad and even my MBA M2, but like it on my 24" iMac.
It needs the bigger screen space.

 

[Digitalguy]

iPads shouldn't run MacOS, indeed... as their main OS, but as a secondary OS (dual boot or virtualized), with no full touch support, just like Sidecar (although that's not in Apple's interest, so unlikely)
Stage Manager is bad because it's an half way that is not good with touch or with keyboard and mouse, mainly because of apps resizing limitations. It should have been left for the external monitor at best.
Instead Apple should have improved iPadOS multitasking on the tablet screen, and as much as fanboys will hate this, they should have done something like Samsung OneUI (not Dex) which is much more powerful than the current multitasking, but still touch friendly.

 

[Digitalguy]

The Surface is highly under appreciated. All MS has to do is tweak the Windows 11 interface a little bit, and it would crush it.

The main issue with Surface devices is not software, it's hardware... X86 is a bad experience with tablet use and Qualcomm chips are still way too expensive for the power they offer (also taking emulation into account). You get either overpriced mid-range performance devices or under-powered and not even that cheap ones. And x86/64...

Before the iPad was even usable for me for anything other than displaying documents and sheet music (essentially before iPadOS), I was using surface devices as tablets both at home and when traveling and they worked well enough for watching videos, taking notes, annotating (before even iPads had pencils), and they could double as laptops too, and with cellular.
But when iPadOS and USB C iPad pros arrived, the added battery life, lack of any heat or noise, speed even in the smaller/lighter models (smaller surface devices are all much slower), great speakers etc. made me move iPads for tablet use (and use the windows devices only as laptops)
I'd be fine with Windows as a tablet for my use (mainly replacing pen and paper and a TV, and the occasional browsing) if they could run M1/2 natively.....

 

[PauloSera]

When it was introduced, I was skeptical about Stage Manager. I always thought that a classical window management system wouldn't work on a touch-based device, but I have confidence in Apple when it comes to this sort of stuff. In the end, it's been a failure.

Some people argued that this shows Apple should implement a macOS-like interface, or even macOS directly. This doesn't make any sense. Apple has adapted windows in SM so that controls (resize handle, top bar...) have the precision of a fingertip, and that they replicate the metaphors we're used to in touch-first devices (for example, dragging instead of tapping). Even then, the experience sucks.

So imagine how bad a macOS-like interface, with traffic light buttons, infinite resize and positions, etc. would be. Well, we don't even have to imagine: we have dozens of Windows 10/11 so-called tablets out there, and no one* use them as tablets.

In the end, I think the professional potential of the iPad goes in line with maximizing the iPad-like, single-window interface. There are tons of AR, illustration, video editing, etc. apps. Customers use them professionally. Some people think making the iPad a professional device means making it a subpar PC. No professional user would buy that.

I don't think you quite understand.

iPadOS is a touch UI.
macOS is a keyboard and mouse UI.

In response to incessant whining, Apple added limited keyboard and mouse support to iPadOS. But the reverse is not an option. They cannot simply add touch support to macOS.

Touch is not only a different user interface, it is a different product altogether. Which is why the products Apple created around touch are not just clones of macOS.

Having said that, your original statement: iPads shouldn't run macOS is probably very wrong. Apple should indeed stop bastardizing iPadOS at the behest of the hobbyist/pseudo-professional user, and just offer the option to dual boot an iPad with macOS and iPadOS, so that those who insist on turning iPad into a laptop (instead of just getting a laptop) can have at it. Of course, when running macOS, it would be required to connect a Magic Keyboard w/ Trackpad, or similar KBAM accessories, just like any Mac that doesn't have those attached. And the touch screen would be disabled. As it should be. There is even a reliable leak that says this is exactly what is coming.

 

[Rafterman]

They cannot simply add touch support to macOS.

Sure they can.

 

[sparksd]

The Surface is highly under appreciated. All MS has to do is tweak the Windows 11 interface a little bit, and it would crush it.

If I had to choose between my M1 12.9 and my 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7, I'd keep the Surface Pro.

 

[Rafterman]

If I had to choose between my M1 12.9 and my 16GB i7 Surface Pro 7, I'd keep the Surface Pro.

Tough call.

iPad: battery life, touch optimized interface, 5G built in.
Surface: full OS, cool kickstand, cool dock option.

 

[sparksd]

Tough call.

iPad: battery life, touch optimized interface, 5G built in.
Surface: full OS, cool kickstand, cool dock option.

Easy call for me. Surface has full-up Office that I need, great multi-tasking support, support for USB devices (e.g., DVD read/write) that I need, full-up Lightroom and Photoshop, a fully capable photo DAM working with my NAS, etc. The iPad, on the other hand, has capabilities that I like but don't have a driving need for.

 

[PauloSera]

Sure they can.

Do you not understand what a touch OS is?

 

[Rafterman]

Easy call for me. Surface has full-up Office that I need, great multi-tasking support, support for USB devices (e.g., DVD read/write) that I need, full-up Lightroom and Photoshop, a fully capable photo DAM working with my NAS, etc. The iPad, on the other hand, has capabilities that I like but don't have a driving need for.

I'm the other way around: consumption device for fun, email, web, vpn, Teams and RDP for work stuff. I use my Macbook Pro for heavy stuff.

 

[Rafterman]

Do you not understand what a touch OS is?

Stop looking for "purity." MacOS would be perfectly fine for an iPad and touch.

 

[Booji]

What if Apple were already planning exactly this for a long time already? Make MacOS look almost identical to iOS/iPadOS, make it run iOS/iPadOS apps, make it run on the same ARM hardware, and eventually integrate the touch UI into MacOS and deprecate iOS/iPadOS completely.

Then iPads can switch the UI depending on whether the magic keyboard accessoire is connected.

That would perfectly explain why MacOS looks more similar to iOS/iPadOS now than ever before and it would fit in with their Mac ARM transition. Reducing all devices to a single OS codebase also reduces software complexity.

Agree - I think the plan toward an ultimate convergence can be seen from the evidence of the gradual steps being made to unify elements of both operating systems and hardware.

 

[Ethosik]

Hate to admit it, but for me, if I want to get the most productive work done on the road I have to resort to a Surface Pro, (or even the Surface Go 3 works better for me if I want to travel light). It provides me with a quick and efficient way of having multiple windows open, and that I can switch between, without the faff of snapping views and piles.

This trying to keep the touch interface on an iPad to one screen doesn't work efficiently for me. I wish it did, as I don't really like Windows. But when time is money, I have to go with the most efficient route,

Having a full floating windowed version of iPadOS, even if it was only active when the keyboard was attached would bring the best of both worlds for me, and allow me to completely switch from Windows.

I have a hard time “tapping” desktop apps on my surface. Windows 8 was much much better. They reverted this with 10 and it’s worse. It’s better for desktops but I can’t stand touch on Windows 10/11.

 

[Ethosik]

Stop looking for "purity." MacOS would be perfectly fine for an iPad and touch.

Not possible. I have used Remote Desktop on my iPad before and it’s very hard for me to activate some UI elements. Buttons are very small. Heck I find this forum difficult at times with the small links/icons. My fingers are not that small.

 

[eicca]

Here's the thing: going from macOS to iPadOS is a huge step down in terms of capability. Going from iPadOS to macOS would only make the iPad infinitely more usable.

Once they add touch and pencil support, and probably some UI tweaks to streamline things, what couldn't you do on a macOS iPad that you could on an iPadOS-only iPad? The answer is nothing. MacOS can only take the iPad higher.

 

[ian87w]

I agree, and if Apple had kept iPads as its original vision, a device between a phone and a laptop, it's fine. However, Apple's greed is pushing iPads into $1000+ price points, and sometimes more expensive than macs. As such, some customers start to expect certain features and capabilities. It's not helping either that Apple is now focusing iPads as a Surface Pro clone so they can sell those expensive keyboards. When you demand more money from consumers, there will be higher expectations on things. And since Apple is losing its own vision on what the iPad should be, they start mishmashing desktop/macos conventions into the iPad without any clue how it would participate into the iPad's general UX.

 

[Shirasaki]

Stage Manager is a touch-centric multitasking system created by Apple in a half-a** manner to appeal people demanding more capable iPadOS, and fail horribly. People just don’t understand: iPadOS is essentially a fork from iOS, sharing most of the underline code and basic functionality. If people want a more powerful iPadOS, either bring macOS to iPad or completely rewrite iPadOS so much so that it is their own thing, giving up decades of software library and support (or add ”emulation”/virtualization).

However, merging both iPadOS and macOS cannot really happen, despite using the same underlying hardware, for one simple reason: you cannot merge iOS with macOS. It just doesn’t work well. Microsoft tried a dozen ways for about 10 years and still not quite figured out. Apple sees that and think “hmm, not a good idea”, and just PR their way every WWDC/interview/etc as they like to do. In the end, people keep getting disappointed of iPad Pro hardware going to waste, and maybe eventually relent then realise iOS can never do desktop tasks the same manner as macOS does.

I enjoy using iPad, more or less as a larger size iPhone (as people mocked back in 2010) with its own quirks. But that’s about it.