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matttarantino

macrumors member
Original poster
Aug 5, 2021
59
427
I've been a iPhone Upgrade Program customer from the very start of the program. Yesterday I upgraded from an iPhone 14 Pro Max to a Blue Titanium iPhone 15 Pro Max. I pre-ordered online last week, and had an 8am appointment yesterday to pick up my new iPhone from the Apple Store. When I got home and opened it up, I discovered a defect on the back glass. Understandably upset, I went back to the Apple Store this morning in hopes of getting it replaced. Luckily, they had one Blue Titanium iPhone 15 Pro Max left in the back.

In order to exchange the phone, they had to process a return. This would also close out the associated Citizens loan that was just opened. Then, I had to re-apply to open a new Citizens loan for the replacement iPhone. When I re-applied for the new loan, Citizens hit me with a hard credit inquiry. This is something that hasn’t happened since I originally applied back in 2015, and didn’t even happen on the original loan for this year. Once all was settled, and things were transferred to my replacement phone, the only thing left to do was to turn in my 14 Pro Max to close out the loan from last year. I did this with the same Apple employee, and after 90 minutes total, I was on my way again.

On the way home this time, I received an email from Apple that they never received my 14 PM and that the associated loan for my 14 Pro Max would continue. This was after I just turned in my 14 Pro Max at the Apple Store. I’ve since spent several hours on the phone with both Citizens and Apple Support trying to get the bottom of this situation, and the best I was told was “It's likely because they closed out your first loan before you returned your 14. It should hopefully work itself out at some point”.

The fact that the only way for Apple to replace a damaged phone (that came like that) is to cancel a loan and have the customer re-apply for a new loan, causing unnecessary credit checks in the process seems totally silly. Additionally, I now have to worry about if my 14 was actually returned properly, or if that will be another thing I have to figure out.

This process has really taken the excitement out of the release. I am questioning if the IUP is right for me anymore as it seems like it is easier to just purchase the phone outright and trade in my phone from last year for a credit. This way I can return it/exchange it without the headaches of the citizens loans.

Anyone else have a similar experience?
 

Shirasaki

macrumors P6
May 16, 2015
16,271
11,768
Sounds like a financial management nightmare in detail, with only best case scenario in mind during the design.
Lots and lots of people claim they take out instalment to better manage the finance, but if the experience is this bad or it has too many hidden caveats, I would never bother.
(Un)fortunately, there is no IUP in Australia afaik outside of carrier payment plan thing.
 

ant the ninja

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2012
656
795
was that email maybe for the first loan they cancelled out and not the second, newly open one?
 

heyyitssusan

macrumors 601
Feb 9, 2014
4,001
10,215
I've been a iPhone Upgrade Program customer from the very start of the program. Yesterday I upgraded from an iPhone 14 Pro Max to a Blue Titanium iPhone 15 Pro Max. I pre-ordered online last week, and had an 8am appointment yesterday to pick up my new iPhone from the Apple Store. When I got home and opened it up, I discovered a defect on the back glass. Understandably upset, I went back to the Apple Store this morning in hopes of getting it replaced. Luckily, they had one Blue Titanium iPhone 15 Pro Max left in the back.

In order to exchange the phone, they had to process a return. This would also close out the associated Citizens loan that was just opened. Then, I had to re-apply to open a new Citizens loan for the replacement iPhone. When I re-applied for the new loan, Citizens hit me with a hard credit inquiry. This is something that hasn’t happened since I originally applied back in 2015, and didn’t even happen on the original loan for this year. Once all was settled, and things were transferred to my replacement phone, the only thing left to do was to turn in my 14 Pro Max to close out the loan from last year. I did this with the same Apple employee, and after 90 minutes total, I was on my way again.

On the way home this time, I received an email from Apple that they never received my 14 PM and that the associated loan for my 14 Pro Max would continue. This was after I just turned in my 14 Pro Max at the Apple Store. I’ve since spent several hours on the phone with both Citizens and Apple Support trying to get the bottom of this situation, and the best I was told was “It's likely because they closed out your first loan before you returned your 14. It should hopefully work itself out at some point”.

The fact that the only way for Apple to replace a damaged phone (that came like that) is to cancel a loan and have the customer re-apply for a new loan, causing unnecessary credit checks in the process seems totally silly. Additionally, I now have to worry about if my 14 was actually returned properly, or if that will be another thing I have to figure out.

This process has really taken the excitement out of the release. I am questioning if the IUP is right for me anymore as it seems like it is easier to just purchase the phone outright and trade in my phone from last year for a credit. This way I can return it/exchange it without the headaches of the citizens loans.

Anyone else have a similar experience?
This is my first time trying iUP and I'm hoping I don't run into any issues with having to return the device. I am hoping to pay it off pretty soon so that I don't have to worry about it.
 

drew0020

macrumors 68020
Nov 10, 2006
2,368
1,281
Agreed. Why do people use this program? It’s terrible so I don’t feel bad when I hear those stories. It’s common knowledge that the program is a headache (it sucks), yet people do it every year and then complain about it…
 

ant the ninja

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2012
656
795
Agreed. Why do people use this program? It’s terrible so I don’t feel bad when I hear those stories. It’s common knowledge that the program is a headache (it sucks), yet people do it every year and then complain about it…
I’ve been on it since it started and never had an issue. Well, that’s not true, I did have two issues but both were caused by me not the program itself.
 
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Apple_Robert

Contributor
Sep 21, 2012
35,695
52,577
In a van down by the river
Hard lesson learned about not getting proof of fulfillment of a loan first.

There is no real benefit to taking out a loan for a phone with this program. There is nothing stopping any of you in the program from getting a phone on your own and paying it off in full without interest, and then getting another phone later on.

Some may say I rather let that $700-1500 earn interest versus paying in full without the loan but, the interest earned on such a small amount in a short time frame would be less than a Starbucks coffee (more than likely). If we were talking about a much larger sum of money, I would tend to agree with putting money to work.

In my opinion, if you have to do the upgrade program with Apple in order to be able to afford the phone on a monthly basis, you really can't afford the phone.

Find an area in your budget where you can cut back on eating out or some other expense that is a want and not a need, and set that same money aside every month for treating yourself to a new phone. That way, buying in full won't be a burden, you won't have to take out a loan for a phone, and you won't have to deal with a bunch of needless red tape that could negatively impact your credit in some on the other end screws up.
 

kupkakez

macrumors 68020
Apr 4, 2011
2,120
1,327
Austin, TX
I tried the Citizens program when it first came out and it was clunky back then, I also thought it was a bit silly to take a credit inquiry over a phone I could just pay for outright. If you buy outright and then trade in each year you are only coming out of pocket a few hundred dollars (typically). Way less headache when it comes to preordering as well etc
 

Rafterman

Contributor
Apr 23, 2010
7,267
8,809
I tried the Citizens program when it first came out and it was clunky back then, I also thought it was a bit silly to take a credit inquiry over a phone I could just pay for outright. If you buy outright and then trade in each year you are only coming out of pocket a few hundred dollars (typically). Way less headache when it comes to preordering as well etc

I never understand why a hard credit inquiry should affect your credit score. It's stupid. Actually accepting a credit offer should, not simply an "inquiry." It's all a scam.
 

NeoSe7en

macrumors 6502
Apr 21, 2017
261
460
That’s exactly why the iUP never sat right with me. Who wants a hard credit pull and an official loan on their credit report just for a phone? A phone you’re technically just renting at that.

Apple Card monthly installments or even carrier installments are WAY less of a headache. Plus you actually get to own the thing you’re paying for.
 
Last edited:
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ant the ninja

macrumors 6502a
Nov 21, 2012
656
795
That’s exactly with iUP never sat right with me. Who wants a hard credit pull and an official loan on their credit report just for a phone? A phone you’re technically just renting at that.

Apple Card monthly installments or even carrier installments are WAY less of a headache. Plus you actually get to own the thing you’re paying for.
iUP doesn’t put a loan on your credit report and the only time I ever had hard inquiry was the first time I did it the first year it came out. You can also continue to pay the payment for 24 months and own it outright OR choose to pay it off at anytime. The only difference between the iUP and the others is that the iUP builds in AppleCare and allows you to return the phone at the 12th payment for the new one.

Also, AppleCard monthly installments add the entire amount to your AppleCard impacting your utilization which can cause your score to drop plenty more than a single inquiry.
 

Alexrat1996

macrumors 601
Mar 29, 2015
4,352
763
Lehigh valley PA
I've been a iPhone Upgrade Program customer from the very start of the program. Yesterday I upgraded from an iPhone 14 Pro Max to a Blue Titanium iPhone 15 Pro Max. I pre-ordered online last week, and had an 8am appointment yesterday to pick up my new iPhone from the Apple Store. When I got home and opened it up, I discovered a defect on the back glass. Understandably upset, I went back to the Apple Store this morning in hopes of getting it replaced. Luckily, they had one Blue Titanium iPhone 15 Pro Max left in the back.

In order to exchange the phone, they had to process a return. This would also close out the associated Citizens loan that was just opened. Then, I had to re-apply to open a new Citizens loan for the replacement iPhone. When I re-applied for the new loan, Citizens hit me with a hard credit inquiry. This is something that hasn’t happened since I originally applied back in 2015, and didn’t even happen on the original loan for this year. Once all was settled, and things were transferred to my replacement phone, the only thing left to do was to turn in my 14 Pro Max to close out the loan from last year. I did this with the same Apple employee, and after 90 minutes total, I was on my way again.

On the way home this time, I received an email from Apple that they never received my 14 PM and that the associated loan for my 14 Pro Max would continue. This was after I just turned in my 14 Pro Max at the Apple Store. I’ve since spent several hours on the phone with both Citizens and Apple Support trying to get the bottom of this situation, and the best I was told was “It's likely because they closed out your first loan before you returned your 14. It should hopefully work itself out at some point”.

The fact that the only way for Apple to replace a damaged phone (that came like that) is to cancel a loan and have the customer re-apply for a new loan, causing unnecessary credit checks in the process seems totally silly. Additionally, I now have to worry about if my 14 was actually returned properly, or if that will be another thing I have to figure out.

This process has really taken the excitement out of the release. I am questioning if the IUP is right for me anymore as it seems like it is easier to just purchase the phone outright and trade in my phone from last year for a credit. This way I can return it/exchange it without the headaches of the citizens loans.

Anyone else have a similar experience?
Mine was different I returned my 15 pro max that was broken and I wanted more storage and I got that email

did you get an email the loan was canceled ?
 

powerbook911

macrumors 601
Mar 15, 2005
4,003
383
I use IUP for the good financing rate on unlocked phone, but I don't actually give the phone back (or haven't in the previous times I've used it).

I have made returns on defective IUP phones, and it goes ok.
 

Alexrat1996

macrumors 601
Mar 29, 2015
4,352
763
Lehigh valley PA
I use IUP for the good financing rate on unlocked phone, but I don't actually give the phone back (or haven't in the previous times I've used it).

I have made returns on defective IUP phones, and it goes ok.
I returned mine in store my defect 15 pro max but I haven’t got an email the loan close how long it takes ?

I’m going to reorder phone
 

powerbook911

macrumors 601
Mar 15, 2005
4,003
383
I returned mine in store my defect 15 pro max but I haven’t got an email the loan close how long it takes ?

I’m going to reorder phone

When I have done this in one or two past generations, it did take up to a few days to receive that confirmation.
 

MayfairMissy

macrumors 6502
Feb 20, 2021
460
1,051
One of the many reasons I always pay for my stuff in full by myself. Straight from my bank account, paypal account or cash.
So sorry for you. Hope it turns out well for you.
 
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