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Apple Pay Is Apple Pay a secure way to pay when dealing with unfamiliar companies?

H

hajime

macrumors G3
Original poster
Jul 23, 2007
8,092
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Hi, when buying from unfamiliar companies (including those in China) on the internet, I don’t want to use credit card. Is Apple Pay a secure way to pay?

Do we just add some money to Apple Pay via credit card or Apple gift card. Then use it to pay unfamiliar companies without letting them know the credit card number?
Do we get protection if they don’t send us the product?
 
hajime said:
Hi, when buying from unfamiliar companies (including those in China) on the internet, I don’t want to use credit card. Is Apple Pay a secure way to pay?

Do we just add some money to Apple Pay via credit card or Apple gift card. Then use it to pay unfamiliar companies without letting them know the credit card number?
Do we get protection if they don’t send us the product?
Click to expand...
I believe it is much more secure than paying with a credit or debit card. From the Apple Pay page:

"When you make a purchase, Apple Pay uses a device-specific number and unique transaction code. So your card number is never stored on your device or on Apple servers. And when you pay, your card numbers are never shared by Apple with merchants."

There is a short Q&A section at the bottom of the Apple Pay page I linked above.
 
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hajime said:
What about from real personal experience?
Click to expand...
I began using Apple Pay when I bought my iPhone 15 just after launch. The reason I began using Apple Pay at checkouts is because I used to use a debit card and had that debit card number stolen twice. One time I got a text message from my bank asking if I wanted to allow a $500.00 "top up" for a store card (the transaction was attempted on the other side of the US). Being that I never use store cards, and I'm on the west coast of the USA, I replied "NO". This resulted in another text message saying my debit card was frozen and I should contact my bank. Sure enough, when I contacted my bank they told me that someone somehow got hold of my debit card number and tried stealing money from my account. I probably fell victim to a credit card skimmer at a checkout somewhere, thankfully my bank watches for suspicious transactions and blocked it for me so I didn't lose any money.

Since using Apple Pay I have not had any problems - likely because Apple Pay doesn't share your debit/credit card number with anyone - skimmers can't steal the number. I got a new debit card after that last incident, added it to my iPhone 15 Wallet app and the debit card went into a drawer and has been there ever since. I really like Apple Pay and I refuse to make any purchases without it.. I don't even carry my physical debit/credit cards with me anymore.

I've never done it, but I have heard that, if you have any problems with Apple Pay you can remove your debit card from the Wallet app, re-add it and you get a new Apple Pay debit card number. When you use Apple Pay, the transaction is made with the Apple Pay card number not your physical debit/credit card number. So your physical debit/credit card number is always kept secret.
 
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hajime said:
Do we just add some money to Apple Pay via credit card or Apple gift card.
Click to expand...
No, you can't add money to Apple Pay. You can, however, add money to your Apple Cash and then use that to pay for something via Apple Pay. Apple Cash does not offer purchase protection though. There's no way to get your money back if you don't receive your order. (Apple Cash is not to be confused with the Apple Card.)

Also, Apple gift cards can only be used for purchases made with Apple (in their store, App Store, Apple TV, Apple Music, iTunes, etc.). You cannot use them via Apple Pay, nor can you add the gift card balance to your Apple Cash.

For what you're wanting to do, you'll need to add your actual credit card to Apple Pay and then select the credit card when paying via Apple Pay. The merchant won't see your credit card number. If you don't receive your order, you can then work with the credit card company to dispute the transaction (assuming they offer purchase protection).
 
throAU said:
Instead of the merchant getting a credit card number they can reuse they get a one time transaction that is biometric authenticated when you process it.
Click to expand...
I'm confused. I use Apple Pay exclusively and when I look at the receipt it has the last four digits of the card in the Wallet app, which is different than the debit card I added to the Wallet app.

What happens is you add a debit or credit card to the Wallet app. Your iPhone creates a new card number for the card that shows up in the Wallet app - this number is different than the number on your physical debit/credit card. The merchant gets the number that the iPhone generated for the card you added - otherwise it wouldn't be printed on the receipt. What is to keep the merchant from reusing the debit/credit card number that the merchant receives? Does the 3 digit security code change with each transaction?
 
Iwavvns said:
I'm confused. I use Apple Pay exclusively and when I look at the receipt it has the last four digits of the card in the Wallet app, which is different than the debit card I added to the Wallet app.

What happens is you add a debit or credit card to the Wallet app. Your iPhone creates a new card number for the card that shows up in the Wallet app - this number is different than the number on your physical debit/credit card. The merchant gets the number that the iPhone generated for the card you added - otherwise it wouldn't be printed on the receipt. What is to keep the merchant from reusing the debit/credit card number that the merchant receives? Does the 3 digit security code change with each transaction?
Click to expand...

Are you saying that the whole Apple Pay card number gets printed on the receipt? In the UK, it's just the last 4 digits.
 
hajime said:
What about from real personal experience?
Click to expand...

I've bought stuff from AliExpress using Apple Pay. I created a private account using one of the fake Apple generated email addresses and have made 3-4 purchases w/Apple Pay. Zero issues.

You add your credit or debit card information into the Wallet App and it uses those. You don't add money to Apple Pay unless you're using Apple Cash card for payments. You can add money to that if you want.
 
Read

Apple Pay security and privacy overview – Apple Support (AU)

See how your Apple Pay personal and payment information and transaction data is protected.
support.apple.com support.apple.com


TLDR - when you set up and use applepay, your bank and apple negotiate one time numbers that link back to your account. The merchant never gets your real credit card number, and the negotiated secret used to perform the transaction is a one time use code.

They can't re use the code because it is only valid for one transaction.



After you’ve authenticated your transaction, the Secure Element will provide your Device Account Number and a transaction-specific dynamic security code to the store’s point of sale terminal along with additional information needed to complete the transaction. Again, neither Apple nor your device will send your actual payment card number. Before they approve the payment, your bank, card issuer or payment network can verify your payment information by checking the dynamic security code to make sure that it’s unique and tied to your device.
Click to expand...
 
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throAU said:
Read

Apple Pay security and privacy overview – Apple Support (AU)

See how your Apple Pay personal and payment information and transaction data is protected.
support.apple.com support.apple.com


TLDR - when you set up and use applepay, your bank and apple negotiate one time numbers that link back to your account. The merchant never gets your real credit card number, and the negotiated secret used to perform the transaction is a one time use code.

They can't re use the code because it is only valid for one transaction.
Click to expand...
Thank you very much! Being that credit card skimmers are easy to implement and effective in their use, banks need to come up with this type of thing to render card skimmers useless.
 
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I use Apple Pay for any transactions that I can, whether it’s groceries, cvs, fast food, the dollar store, you name it. For other places that don’t accept Apple Pay, I use a prepaid card that I can lock/unlock, and can quickly add money when I’m about to make another transaction so that the card will have no funds until the next transaction.
 
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Iwavvns said:
Thank you very much! Being that credit card skimmers are easy to implement and effective in their use, banks need to come up with this type of thing to render card skimmers useless.
Click to expand...

Yup.

ApplePay is, like it or not a lot more secure than either using a credit card normally or using SamsungPay or Google Wallet. Also, as I understand it, unlike Google Wallet the transaction history doesn't go to Apple (or Google) for everything you buy; it stays local to device (which is a bit of a bummer as things I buy on my Mac don't show in my iPhone apple pay history, etc.) - it is between the Secure Enclave on your Apple device, your bank and the merchant - and the merchant (or card skimmer) never sees your real credit card info. They just get a one time token for that specific purchase that is not re-playable.

1739784703169.jpeg
 
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throAU said:
Yup.

ApplePay is, like it or not a lot more secure than either using a credit card normally or using SamsungPay or Google Wallet. Also, as I understand it, unlike Google Wallet the transaction history doesn't go to Apple (or Google) for everything you buy; it stays local to device (which is a bit of a bummer as things I buy on my Mac don't show in my iPhone apple pay history, etc.) - it is between the Secure Enclave on your Apple device, your bank and the merchant - and the merchant (or card skimmer) never sees your real credit card info. They just get a one time token for that specific purchase that is not re-playable.

View attachment 2483030
Click to expand...
Banks need to do this.. it would make stolen debit/credit card numbers useless, and that would cut down on physical card theft and skimmers. Until then, I will keep using Apple Pay and leave my debit/credit cards at home in a drawer.
 
To add to what @throAU provided, and apologies if they already posted this and I missed it, Wallet and merchants do get the real last four digits of the real card. I dug into this back in the summer.

If you look into the security guide and the APIs for Pay, the last four digits are available to use for display purposes. Can see it in the Wallet app under [card] > [Three Dots] > Card Details > Card Information
 
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