Is External NVME ssd fast enough for 4k editing?

[AppleMyI]

Sold my previous 5,1 Mac Pro to fund my 2019 MacBook Pro i9/16GB/512/560x in July to learn video editing with Final Cut Pro. I thought the 512GB base storage would be enough but found out after a few months that it wasn't. I still have my Crucial 1TB nvme from my Mac Pro, so I went and bought an external enclosure on amazon for $20 and I'm able to achieve 900mb/s writes via usb 3.1.

My other option is to sell this machine for about a $1,000 loss, to upgrade to a base model 16" since it comes with 1TB base storage, and micro center has a sale where they're selling the 16" for $2,569.99, basically $230 off, so I can offset my loss because of that.

However, I don't really want to sell this machine and most likely just save up and get an upgraded 16" i9/64GB/4TB/5500M 8GB, in a couple years. Basically, can I edit off my 900mb/s nvme ssd, without dropping frames, even though it's 2x slower than apple's ssd?


edit: spelling

 

[jrichards1408]

No unless it's connected to a thunderbolt interface controller. some of these so called nvme enclosures or ext drives use USB 3.1 interface which is slower than thunderbolt 3

 

[cambookpro]

~900MB/s should be more than fine. I’ve edited short 4K projects on external USB-C SSDs half that speed without much issue.

If you get serious with editing, you probably want a RAID for capacity and redundancy, but if it’s just for learning/personal projects it should be more than fine. I’d just chuck some media on it and see before contemplating spending hundreds upgrading the Mac.

 

[Sirmausalot]

You should not have your footage on an internal drive anyway. You can edit 4k from an external SSD or RAID HDDs.... Just use optimized media and you'll be fine. But get your library and other media off the computer. It doesn't belong there.

 

[Fishrrman]

OP:

The speeds you're getting now indicate that the enclosure you're using is USB3.1, gen2.
These typically yield read speeds around 950-960MBps.
Write speeds are in the 800's.
Nothing wrong with that for most folks, but for 4k, you might need "more".

You could take the nvme blade and put it into a thunderbolt3 enclosure, and get reads that will probably be in the 2,000MBps range, maybe even a little higher (depends on the blade itself). But these enclosures are harder to find, more expensive, and some seem a bit quirky with the Mac.

Another option:
Buy a Samsung X5 (NOT "t5) thunderbolt3 drive (ready-to-go).

How does the current drive/enclosure you have do for 4k editing now...?

 

[TheYellowAudi]

That sucks- sorry to hear that you happened to buy new in July. BUT to make you feel better, (as mentioned) if you're using TB3, your transfer (read/write) speeds will be plenty fast. I edit 4K video from Gopros, drones, Sony a7iii (100Mb/s bw) all day from a Samsung T5 1TB drive on a 2013 15" Mackbook Pro. (it's slow to render, but works fine) You'll have no issues editing from a Samsung 850.

Also, (just for the record) the base 16" starts at 512GB internal SSD as well. I just bought a 16"/i9/16GB/1TB/5500M this morning from B&H for $2599. (no tax, free shipping)

G/L!

 

[bsbeamer]

See these:

OWC Express 4M2 4-Slot M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure w/ Thunderbolt3 Ports with SoftRaid XT

The OWC Express 4M2 is designed with superior ease-of-use in mind. We worked with award-winning creatives and listened to the kudos they heaped onto the OWC ThunderBay mini, and we put all that shared knowledge to good use when we set out to build the next-gen Thunderbolt 3 multi-bay drive. The r...

www.amazon.com

HighPoint Technologies Highpoint RocketStor 6661A-NVMe Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe RAID Adapter

Compact, Portable NVMe RAID Storage for Thunderbolt 3 Connectivity: The RocketStor 6661A-NVMe allows you to add lightning-fast NVMe RAID Storage to any Thunderbolt 3 capable PC platform. Each RocketStor 6661A-NVMe solution supports up to four M.2 SSD's in RAID 0, 1, 5, 1/0 and single-drive config...

www.amazon.com

Also be aware that you can use an eGPU style expansion enclosure with a PCIe NVMe adapter. Something like the Sonnet M.2 4x4 works with them and I'm sure HighPoint 7101A does as well.

Sonnet SSD M.2 4x4 PCIe Card [Thunderbolt Compatible]

Sonnet SSD M.2 4x4 PCIe Card [Thunderbolt Compatible]

www.amazon.com

HighPoint 4-Port M.2 SSD7101A PCIe Gen3 NVMe RAID Controller for Windows, Mac & Linux Systems.

Unlock the true performance of NVMe SSD's: the SSD7101A-1 is capable of delivering performance over 8X faster than onboard NVMe solutions, & over 40X faster than SATA SSD's. The unique architecture provides dedicated PCIe 3.0 X4 (32GB/s) bandwidth for each M.2 SSD, & unlocks the true performance ...

www.amazon.com

Also see these:

Sonnet Echo Express SE1 Thunderbolt 3 Expansion Chassis (Echo-EXP-SE!-T3)

Are you in the market for a new computer? It's amazing how much processing power the latest ultra-light notebooks, small form factor computers, and all-in-one desktop computers pack in such small and thin enclosures. But, thinness comes with a cost-there's nowhere for you to install PCIE cards fo...

www.amazon.com

Echo Express III-D Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe Card Expansion System - Sonnet

Desktop 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 adapter box with 3 slots. Supports full-length PCIe cards with auxiliary power.

www.sonnettech.com

Highpoint RocketStor 6661A Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe 3.0 Expansion Chassis

Ultra-compact & portable Thunderbolt 3 PCIe expansion chassis - transform your notebook into a compact media workstation! the RocketStor 6661A allows you to quickly add any PCIe X4, X8 or X16 card to your Thunderbolt 3 capable computing platform; such as media capture, Ethernet, fiber channel, or...

www.amazon.com

 

[AppleMyI]

Extremely appreciative of all the advice from you guys!

You should not have your footage on an internal drive anyway. You can edit 4k from an external SSD or RAID HDDs.... Just use optimized media and you'll be fine. But get your library and other media off the computer. It doesn't belong there.

could you please elaborate why?

OP:

The speeds you're getting now indicate that the enclosure you're using is USB3.1, gen2.
These typically yield read speeds around 950-960MBps.
Write speeds are in the 800's.
Nothing wrong with that for most folks, but for 4k, you might need "more".

You could take the nvme blade and put it into a thunderbolt3 enclosure, and get reads that will probably be in the 2,000MBps range, maybe even a little higher (depends on the blade itself). But these enclosures are harder to find, more expensive, and some seem a bit quirky with the Mac.

Another option:
Buy a Samsung X5 (NOT "t5) thunderbolt3 drive (ready-to-go).

How does the current drive/enclosure you have do for 4k editing now...?

I looked at the Samsung x5 a few months ago and the price just made me want to sell my MacBook and just upgrade to a new one, hence why I'm asking this question. The external enclosure is okay but the render's are a bit slow compare to if I edit off of internal, but it's not super bad. I just don't want to velcro my nvme onto the back of my laptop how I see some people do with their Samsung t5's.

That sucks- sorry to hear that you happened to buy new in July. BUT to make you feel better, (as mentioned) if you're using TB3, your transfer (read/write) speeds will be plenty fast. I edit 4K video from Gopros, drones, Sony a7iii (100Mb/s bw) all day from a Samsung T5 1TB drive on a 2013 15" Mackbook Pro. (it's slow to render, but works fine) You'll have no issues editing from a Samsung 850.

Also, (just for the record) the base 16" starts at 512GB internal SSD as well. I just bought a 16"/i9/16GB/1TB/5500M this morning from B&H for $2599. (no tax, free shipping)

G/L!

The base model i9 actually has 1TB base storage, and the deal from micro center for the i9 is actually better than B&H's (check my screenshot). thanks tho

See these:

OWC Express 4M2 4-Slot M.2 NVMe SSD Enclosure w/ Thunderbolt3 Ports with SoftRaid XT

The OWC Express 4M2 is designed with superior ease-of-use in mind. We worked with award-winning creatives and listened to the kudos they heaped onto the OWC ThunderBay mini, and we put all that shared knowledge to good use when we set out to build the next-gen Thunderbolt 3 multi-bay drive. The r...

www.amazon.com

HighPoint Technologies Highpoint RocketStor 6661A-NVMe Thunderbolt 3 to NVMe RAID Adapter

Compact, Portable NVMe RAID Storage for Thunderbolt 3 Connectivity: The RocketStor 6661A-NVMe allows you to add lightning-fast NVMe RAID Storage to any Thunderbolt 3 capable PC platform. Each RocketStor 6661A-NVMe solution supports up to four M.2 SSD's in RAID 0, 1, 5, 1/0 and single-drive config...

www.amazon.com

Also be aware that you can use an eGPU style expansion enclosure with a PCIe NVMe adapter. Something like the Sonnet M.2 4x4 works with them and I'm sure HighPoint 7101A does as well.

Sonnet SSD M.2 4x4 PCIe Card [Thunderbolt Compatible]

Sonnet SSD M.2 4x4 PCIe Card [Thunderbolt Compatible]

www.amazon.com

HighPoint 4-Port M.2 SSD7101A PCIe Gen3 NVMe RAID Controller for Windows, Mac & Linux Systems.

Unlock the true performance of NVMe SSD's: the SSD7101A-1 is capable of delivering performance over 8X faster than onboard NVMe solutions, & over 40X faster than SATA SSD's. The unique architecture provides dedicated PCIe 3.0 X4 (32GB/s) bandwidth for each M.2 SSD, & unlocks the true performance ...

www.amazon.com

Also see these:

Sonnet Echo Express SE1 Thunderbolt 3 Expansion Chassis (Echo-EXP-SE!-T3)

Are you in the market for a new computer? It's amazing how much processing power the latest ultra-light notebooks, small form factor computers, and all-in-one desktop computers pack in such small and thin enclosures. But, thinness comes with a cost-there's nowhere for you to install PCIE cards fo...

www.amazon.com

Echo Express III-D Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe Card Expansion System - Sonnet

Desktop 40Gbps Thunderbolt 3 adapter box with 3 slots. Supports full-length PCIe cards with auxiliary power.

www.sonnettech.com

Highpoint RocketStor 6661A Thunderbolt 3 to PCIe 3.0 Expansion Chassis

Ultra-compact & portable Thunderbolt 3 PCIe expansion chassis - transform your notebook into a compact media workstation! the RocketStor 6661A allows you to quickly add any PCIe X4, X8 or X16 card to your Thunderbolt 3 capable computing platform; such as media capture, Ethernet, fiber channel, or...

www.amazon.com

wow, although these are great solutions, the price makes me want to just bite the bullet and upgrade to a 16"...

 

[Ifti]

You'll want to move to ThunderBolt 3. Im able to edit 4K video natively - ie no proxy media etc.

I use this as my main editing drive.
Easily edits 4K and 8K files in FCPX, no problems at all. Saturates the speeds that the TB3 interface can provide. In other words, you won't get any faster through TB3!

For a portable unit these work nicely:

If you are stuck with USB-C, this is the best drive I've come across:

I've just picked up the new 2TB Glyph Atom Pro as well, which is the ThunderBolt 3 version of the above AtomRAID. Its stonking fast - and its better the then Samsung X5 as sustained speeds. ie, it doesn't seem to have the throttling issue the X5 has (The Samsung X5 starts off super fast but as it warms up it throttles speeds, sometimes drastically, in order to keep the SSD cool. Speeds can drop down a LOT at some points when the drive gets hot while rendering etc)
Will be reviewing the Glyph Atom Pro very soon......

For my usual workflows, I stick with the ThunderBlade for desktop use, and will be using the Atom Pro for mobile use...

 

[AppleMyI]

What about something like this?

https://www.amazon.com/WAVLINK-Certified-Thunderbolt-Enclosure-External/dp/B07YB4DDRB/ref=sr_1_5

Much appreciated for all the suggestions, they're just a lot more expensive than I thought they would be.

 

[bsbeamer]

TB3 enclosures for NVMe are more expensive than USB-C and much faster.

Never used that one, but heatsink looks decent enough to maybe trust it. PAY ATTENTION to the thickness requirements. Might only be good for one sided blades.

On a personal level, that case texture would irritate me after a day and would never buy it.

 

[Ifti]

TB3 enclosures for NVMe are more expensive than USB-C and much faster.

Never used that one, but heatsink looks decent enough to maybe trust it. PAY ATTENTION to the thickness requirements. Might only be good for one sided blades.

On a personal level, that case texture would irritate me after a day and would never buy it.

Agree with this. If the entire unit was aluminium rather then plastic I would have been more confident - these SSDs can get really hot!
Also agree with the texture - would irritate me too!!

 

[mick2]

could you please elaborate why?

...

I looked at the Samsung x5 a few months ago and the price just made me want to sell my MacBook and just upgrade to a new one, hence why I'm asking this question.

The 'why?' is for the very reason you made the OP in the first place. As you've discovered, 4k video takes a bucket load of storage space; internal SSD storage is very expensive and cannot be easily expanded. External drives are portable and infintely expandable; when you run out of space you just buy more. Use your internal SSD as a scratch working area if you're needing to maximise i/o speed.

The entire pro video world keeps their apps on their internal SSD and keeps their working media on external drives / clusters. When you're done for the day on location, you put the footage on an external drive and hand it over to the client. Most people I know in this business spend way more on storage each year than they do on laptops.

As for rendering speed and your 2019 15 vs 16, as another poster has commented, people are editing and rendering 4k on location on machines from 4 or 5 years ago; sure, a run will take a few mins longer than it could with the latest and greatest but so what? If rendering speed was such an issue on a specific job you wouldnt be using an ultra thin laptop to do it in the first place.

The point of all this is, no-one expects to store all their media on their internal SSD, and don't sweat the differences in rendering specs between the 2 models you mention. Your current machine will do what you need just fine.

 

[bsbeamer]

The majority posted above is true, except for the client copy of footage. It really seems more rare that they walk away with expensive NVMe or really any SSD on site. When they do, it needs to be returned next day kind of thing and they’re paying a premium in some fashion

The majority have everything organized onto a spinning HDD of some kind/capacity for their copy. Usually cloned to an identical for secondary backup in addition to the originals and wherever SSD/RAID the project will reside. It’s pretty common to meet at the hotel the next AM to hand this off since none of them want to wait around, or FedEx.

 

[mick2]

^ our standard MO is to clone a 2nd copy for the client after wrap each day onto an SSD/NVME that they then keep; 40% of the time the client supplies the external SSD/NVME, 50% of the time we supply footage to editing on a new T/X5 and bill it at cost-plus-faff-factor, the remaining 10% of the time we upload onto some sort of advanced / encrypted / 10Gig yadda-yadda RAID cluster (eg Disney do this).

As a proportion of our day rate, T5 / X5 costs are negligable.

 

[bsbeamer]

Sounds 100% reasonable. As long as they’re paying, I’d meet/exceed whatever their needs are. Wish upload speeds were better to utilize MASV more often.

 

[mick2]

Sounds 100% reasonable. As long as they’re paying, I’d meet/exceed whatever their needs are. Wish upload speeds were better to utilize MASV more often.

I hear that; its clearly the way it'll all be done in the near(ish) future. But currently, particularly in the UK where distances are small, when you need upload speed nothing beats a bloke on a 500cc bike with an X5 in his panniers...

 

[turbineseaplane]

The 'why?' is for the very reason you made the OP in the first place. As you've discovered, 4k video takes a bucket load of storage space; internal SSD storage is very expensive and cannot be easily expanded.

Just to be fair - Apple has chosen to make it this way.

There's no reason whatsoever they couldn't have a socketed connection (or 2) in there on a 16" machine so we could pop in more/newer NVMe drives. (we all know the real rea$on$)

Pretty frustrating artificially imposed limitation on the highest end Pro laptop they offer.

 

[jrichards1408]

Just to be fair - Apple has chosen to make it this way.

There's no reason whatsoever they couldn't have a socketed connection (or 2) in there on a 16" machine so we could pop in more/newer NVMe drives. (we all know the real rea$on$)

Pretty frustrating artificially imposed limitation on the highest end Pro laptop they offer.

Glad I don't rely in osx