iPhone X Is the latest wave of attacks on iPhones and iPhone byers orchestrated?

[macfacts]

I wish you luck in your goal to get Apple to listen to you and make a phone that suits your needs. Two questions: 1) What would have the ideal X looked like to you, as in what are the ideal specs and features of such a phone? and 2) Does this mean we can look forward to you popping in to all X discussions in the future to bash on it so that Apple will listen to you?

My ideal "iPhone x" would be no iPhone 8 and the iPhone X taking that spot including the price point.

 

[Shanghaichica]

My ideal "iPhone x" would be no iPhone 8 and the iPhone X taking that spot including the price point.

So the 8 plus being the most expensive?

 

[macfacts]

So the 8 plus being the most expensive?

No. If people want a plus model, they can get the iPhone 7 plus. Apple still sells that.

 

[Shanghaichica]

No. If people want a plus model, they can get the iPhone 7 plus. Apple still sells that.

Oh I see. So the X being the only release this year.

The X could be priced the same as the 8 plus. They could still have the 8 plus and the 8 but they should be cheaper than they are. Perhaps the X should have been priced around the same as the note 8. The plus the same as the S8 plus and the 8 a hundred £/$ cheaper.

 

[thesaint024]

My ideal "iPhone x" would be no iPhone 8 and the iPhone X taking that spot including the price point.

This is what is generally assumed, but rarely admitted. The outrage is about the price. Valid grievance about the higher price point, but why must you and others complain about other things about the X when it's clearly not the real complaint. You just want the X at the 8+'s price point. It might actually happen, wouldn't be a total surprise.

 

[Shanghaichica]

This is what is generally assumed, but rarely admitted. The outrage is about the price. Valid grievance about the higher price point, but why must you and others complain about other things about the X when it's clearly not the real complaint. You just want the X at the 8+'s price point. It might actually happen, wouldn't be a total surprise.

The reason why I think the X should have been priced at the plus price point is in relation to other products on the market.

Anyhow regardless of what I think I still bought the X.

 

[BigDO]

And as much as that is your opinion, I see your post as a lot of hyperbole and you're trying to project Apple as some evil corporation that is trying manipulate every consumer.

It's called choices, if you don't like what you see, no one can force anyone to purchase Apple products, you have options.

I don't really deal in hyperbole, but yes, it is my opinion, based on the observations of the past few years. And yes, I do think they are very much manipulating their dominant position in the premium segment, and leveraging it to increase margins while simultaneously decreasing the value provided to their customer. They are becoming a fashion brand rather than a technical leader.

Of course Apple or anyone else can force anyone to buy their products. That's a moot argument. Consumers buy products on a balance of benefit and opportunity cost, and it's completely possible to buy something and criticize it at the same time as not being as good as it can be for profit/strategic purposes rather than technical limitations.

 

[Puddled]

Attacking opinion is one thing. Its it criticism and is vital for healthy debate.
Attacking people for having an opinion in the first place is totally different and is censorship by any other name.

The opening post is pretty much the latter and given its content and context, it is rather ironic.

All opinions are valid.

 

[44267547]

I do think they are very much manipulating their dominant position in the premium segment, and leveraging it to increase margins while simultaneously decreasing the value provided to their customer. They are becoming a fashion brand rather than a technical leader.

Decreasing the value to the customer? Feel free to elaborate on that, because I don't see how they're decreasing any value based on what? The quality/service of the products has always been the standard in the tech industry. Just for the record In this discussion, I don't want to interject any 'iOS deficiency arguments' or "Gates." Because those are not applicable to everybody else's situation and are a minority on a tech forum.

I see Apple setting the standard and representing the company that they today with two things they take pride in, (1) The product they put out and (2) The service behind the product. There is a reason they're almost the first trillion dollar company in the world. That's called success anyway you measure it.

Of course Apple or anyone else can force anyone to buy their products. That's a moot argument.

Not at all the point I was making. We all know we have options, but for those who constantly come on to a tech forum to complain and or gripe against Apple knowingly they will never abandon their Apple products, but the only want to voice their opinion to threaten as if they will leave Apple, then do so and take advantage of other manufacturers that offer differences from Apple. If

If Someone was not happy with change or the course that Apple has taken, it doesn't change the fact of what this company is, so you either accept Apple for who they are with continual support of their services and products or you move on to something else to prove your point, which most won't do, because they only act like they're going to leave Apple, but they never do. There are those who want to grudgingly berate Apple and yet use their products at the same time. That was my point.

 

[Fancuku]

To be honest the same can be said about the OP. A normal user does not go to such great lenghts to defend Apple on everything they do.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Decreasing the value to the customer? Feel free to elaborate on that, because I don't see how they're decreasing any value based on what?

Prior to the iPhone 6, each year the iPhone would cost the same amount & have new features. This meant the consumers were effectively getting a better deal each year. value = specs/price. With iPhone 6, Apple's started withholding features from the less expensive phone. With the iPhone X this has gone to the extreme. Instead of releasing a phone for everyone, they are trying to squeeze as much money as possible from their costumers with more expensive phones.

 

[boltjames]

Yes there is. Apple choose to make key changes to their development & marketing process with the iPhone X. They were hoping people were willing to pay a super premium for the iPhone X. The poor sales and our criticism is the way we notify Apple that we do not support the decisions they made. It's the process by which Apple will make better phones in the future.

Poor sales? Of what? iPhone X?

At 35 MILLION units of a $1250 product, that's $43.7 BILLION dollars in revenue.

As a point of reference, that is the same revenue that Amazon did all of last year's fourth quarter. Across thousands of items. Across millions of transactions. One luxury smartphone, most expensive ever produced, bigger than Amazon.

In only 6 weeks of availability, the iPhone X has undoubtedly become the most successful consumer electronic product of all time. Boy, is it selling badly. LOL.

 

[44267547]

Instead of releasing a phone for everyone, they are trying to squeeze as much money as possible from their costumers with more expensive phones.

Yet, you're making it sound like you have no options in their iPhone lineup. Apple has one of the largest iPhone lineup's they have ever had before with iPhones priced at different tiers with various price points. The iPhone X is not for everybody, and it doesn't have to be for everybody, and there are other options. Nor does the iPhone X have appeal to everybody even if they could afford it.

Why does one iPhone have to be able to be for 'everyone'? There's so much diversity with what somebody wants in an iPhone, do you really think one iPhone because its priced at a much higher dollar that has to be for everyone? That seems to be more of an overgeneralization on your behalf.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Yet, you're making it sound like you have no options in their iPhone lineup. Apple has one of the largest iPhone lineup's they have ever had before with iPhones priced at different tiers with various price points. The iPhone X is not for everybody, and it doesn't have to be for everybody, and there are other options. Nor does the iPhone X have appeal to everybody even if they could afford it.

Why does one iPhone have to be able to be for 'everyone'? There's so much diversity with what somebody wants in an iPhone, do you really think one iPhone because its priced at a much higher dollar that has to be for everyone? That seems to be more of an overgeneralization on your behalf.

So you agree that Apple has changed from a 1 iPhone for everyone and it just works company to a many phones at different price points, with features withheld, to force upsells to the more expensive units?

 

[boltjames]

Prior to the iPhone 6, each year the iPhone would cost the same amount & have new features. This meant the consumers were effectively getting a better deal each year. value = specs/price. With iPhone 6, Apple's started withholding features from the less expensive phone. With the iPhone X this has gone to the extreme. Instead of releasing a phone for everyone, they are trying to squeeze as much money as possible from their costumers with more expensive phones.

There is so much wrong with this post I don't know where to begin. Let's start here:

The iPhone you used to get for $0 or $99 with a two year contract was only $0 or $99 because your carrier absorbed the cost for you. AT&T, Verizon, Sprint, T-Mobile, whoever you used for your cellular service took a major hit to their bottom line to acquire you as a customer. That's the way it was 5-10 years ago. Major cellular providers, battling each other, all trying to become the biggest, all driving up their stock prices, all willing to bleed $500 or $800 for the hardware to lock you up to their network for two years. These were called subsidies.

Those days are now over. Carriers have their consumers, only a few change over each year, AT&T and Verizon won, and they no longer are going to pay $500 or more to keep your business. As a result, the loss of these subsidies means that you now need to pay the real price of an iPhone.

Your whole anti-Apple theory is based on anger towards the wrong company. Apple is still making the phone that used to cost $0 in the SE, they are still making the phone that used to cost $99 in the 7. Your carrier, whoever it is, they're the ones who screwed you over compared to 5-10 years ago because they're not paying for the hardware anymore, that free ride is over. Atop the budget SE and older 7, Apple released two premium phones in the 8 and the X to appeal to high-end customers who want something a bit better. No harm there.

So go yell at your wireless carrier in their forum. Apple has done nothing wrong.

 

[44267547]

to force upsells to the more expensive units?

Number one, you didn't answer any other questions that were are asked of you prior.

"Force up-sell" is an over exaggerated term that is not applicable to everyone who makes the conscious decision of which phone works for them or does not. They upgrade to what they want based on suits them financially, not what they need.

However, replying to your remark, Apple doesn't have to be a one phone company and why should they? They have other offerings in their lineup that some consumers may or may not care about certain features, which leads me to question do consumers even utilize all the features that an iPhone has? Doubtful.

 

[The-Real-Deal82]

So you agree that Apple has changed from a 1 iPhone for everyone and it just works company to a many phones at different price points, with features withheld, to force upsells to the more expensive units?

I think Apple have always withheld features in order to stretch them across different releases. You’ve got the likes of Samsung who flood their devices with new and innovative features, much of which die a death as consumers rarely use them. Apple watch the competition closely and use them as marketing research to see what is popular and then development the more popular aspects to which they often do it better.

It can be frustrating for us and as the smartphone market is slowing down, Apple will either feel the pressure to start innovating again or they will stagger even more to try and maintain profits.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Number one, you didn't answer any other questions that were are asked of you prior.

"Force up-sell" is an over exaggerated term that is not applicable to everyone who makes the conscious decision of which phone works for them or does not. They upgrade to what they want based on suits them financially, not what they need.

However, replying to your remark, Apple doesn't have to be a one phone company and why should they? They have other offerings in their lineup that some consumers may or may not care about certain features, which leads me to question do consumers even utilize all the features that an iPhone has? Doubtful.

YES OR NO. HAS APPLE CHANGED FROM A 1 PHONE COMPANY TO A MANY PHONE COMPANY?

And up-sell is not an exaggeration. They withheld features like 1080P display from the iPhone 8 when all the competition is 1080P or higher at the same price point.

I think Apple have always withheld features in order to stretch them across different releases.

Prior to iPhone 6, all new iPhones had the same specs.

 

[Shanghaichica]

YES OR NO. HAS APPLE CHANGED FROM A 1 PHONE COMPANY TO A MANY PHONE COMPANY?

And up-sell is not an exaggeration. They withheld features like 1080P display from the iPhone 8 when all the competition is 1080P or higher at the same price point.



Prior to iPhone 6, all new iPhones had the same specs.

At 4.7 inches the phone doesn’t need 1080p. It would be wasted.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

At 4.7 inches the phone doesn’t need 1080p. It would be wasted.

You are dodging the question. If you want to lie to yourself by deflecting the point, okay so be it but I'll face reality which is that Apple has changed a lot in the last 3 years.

 

[44267547]

YES OR NO. HAS APPLE CHANGED FROM A 1 PHONE COMPANY TO A MANY PHONE COMPANY?

And up-sell is not an exaggeration. They withheld features like 1080P display from the iPhone 8 when all the competition is 1080P or higher at the same price.

Again, you have not answered any questions asked of you from the prior past two post(s) and yet you deflect to the bolded in your own post? Blatantly obvious, however; Part of discussion is actually answering the questions to move forward in a discussion, which you seemingly consistently avoid.

Referencing the bolded in your post, hasn't that been iterated three different times now? And I think it's fairly evident Apple isn't just a 'One phone company', And for third time, why should they be? Diversifying is crucial in the sense of offering more than one in a sense that might meet everybody's expectations differently. The concept to grasp this in a world where price points are crucial, Apple doesn't 'need' to offer one phone.
[doublepost=1514374055][/doublepost]

You are dodging the question.

Ironically, you have been doing the same thing for the last six posts in this thread. You move The goal posts to fit your own Narrative, yet you don't answer any other other questions from other members. It's a matter of simple discussion that you seemingly don't want acknowledge any others opinions, except for your own viewpoints on Apple, but any retorts are apparently ignored.

 

[ToroidalZeus]

Again, you have not answered any questions asked of you from the prior past two post(s) and yet you deflect to the bolded in your own post? Blatantly obvious, however; Part of discussion is actually answering the questions to move forward in a discussion, which you seemingly consistently avoid.

Referencing the bolded in your post, hasn't that been iterated three different times now? And I think it's fairly evident Apple isn't just a 'One phone company', And for third time, why should they be? Diversifying is crucial in the sense of offering more than one in a sense that might meet everybody's expectations differently. The concept to grasp this in a world where price points are crucial, Apple doesn't 'need' to offer one phone.
[doublepost=1514374055][/doublepost]

Ironically, you have been doing the same thing for the last six posts in this thread. You move The goal posts to fit your own Narrative, yet you don't answer any other other questions from other members.

In post #62 I explained how Apple has reduced value to the customer by changing from a 1 iPhone for everyone to a multiple phone with features withheld for up-sell company.

In post #64 you initiated a straw-man argument by stating, "Why does one iPhone have to be able to be for 'everyone'?"

In post #65 I reaffirmed my original statement which is that Apple went from 1 iPhone to many phones with features withheld.

etc.

I am stopping you from committing straw-man arguments by keeping the discussion on topic. The core problem is you cannot admit I am right because that would force you to admit that you were wrong. You have no intention of ever admitting that I am correct because it contradicts your viewpoint. So you will keep initiating straw-man arguments to deflect my point. I've been on the internet since 1995, I know how trolls think.

 

[maflynn]

We are witnessing how social media can be abused to influence entire elections, why would this be any different? Am I being paranoid here?

Nope this is all apple's doing yet, the feeding frenzy is partly due to people hating to see an organization continially succeed. Just look at how people hated the Yankees back when they were winning all the superbowls or the Patriots winning the world series or vice versa

Seriously it seems like human nature to start rooting against the dominant player in a given field. Apple isn't helping itself with the missteps that occurred in 2017

 

[boltjames]

I know how trolls think.

First thing you’ve said that makes any sense.

 

[Shanghaichica]

In post #62 I explained how Apple has reduced value to the customer by changing from a 1 iPhone for everyone to a multiple phone with features withheld for up-sell company.

In post #64 you initiated a straw-man argument by stating, "Why does one iPhone have to be able to be for 'everyone'?"

In post #65 I reaffirmed my original statement which is that Apple went from 1 iPhone to many phones with features withheld.

etc.

I am stopping you from committing straw-man arguments by keeping the discussion on topic. The core problem is you cannot admit I am right because that would force you to admit that you were wrong. You have no intention of ever admitting that I am correct because it contradicts your viewpoint. So you will keep initiating straw-man arguments to deflect my point. I've been on the internet since 1995, I know how trolls think.

I find more value in knowing that I have a range of phones to choose from. Rather than it being a one size fits all.