Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
Stop… grousing time!

UNITAR, the United Nations’ Institute for Teaching and Research, released this week their latest report update on e-waste trends, titled Global E-waste Monitor 2024.

They note how the rate of e-waste recycling is now being outpaced by e-waste generation by a factor of five, as consumers are consuming more per annum than ever before. They note the gap between what’s consumed and what’s being recycled is widening, it and appears to be worsening through at least 2030: at current trends, it will be closer to a factor of 6.5-to-one.

The report is abundant with infographics and can be easily prepared for teaching aids.

The executive summary, meanwhile, got my especial notice [emphases, both bold and bold-italic, mine]:

The report foresees a drop in the documented collection and recycling rate from 22.3% in 2022 to 20% by 2030 due to the widening difference in recycling efforts relative to the staggering growth of e-waste generation worldwide. Challenges contributing to the widening gap include technological progress, higher consumption, limited repair options, shorter product life cycles, society’s growing electronification, design shortcomings, and inadequate e-waste management infrastructure.

Rates of effective e-waste recycling, proportionally, run highest in Europe (42.8 per cent), followed by Oceania and, third, the Americas (30 per cent). Africa is lowest (0.7 per cent), but: a) the continent consumes roughly one-sixth what the Americas do and one-seventh what Europe do, despite being more populous; Africa’s low-recycle rate appears to be impacted further by organized crime activity shipping e-waste from other continents clandestinely [see report summary footnote]; and c) may be using electrical and electronic products for significantly longer than elsewhere (i.e., upcycling, maintaining, etc. — with truly dead equipment going straight to e-waste without much in the way of the quote-unquote “urban mining” of reclaiming precious and rare earth metals embedded in e-waste.) The latter is inferred; the former two are unambiguous.

Regulars on the EIM forum have been pretty good at driving home this persistent issue, many times over, of Apple engineering Macs to be increasingly more difficult to service and repair since at least the premiere of the Retina MacBook Pros — with Apple delivering a general defence on how most components within are recyclable and also tightly integrated with current designs (which yes, reveal the product of some thirty-plus years’ experience of designing and engineering laptops and also reconfiguring laptop components to create desktop Macs like the Mac mini, Mac Studio, and iMac).

And yet — that Apple also pair otherwise-repairable components within, cryptographically, contradicts the sincerity of their defence. This isn’t a revelation. That other companies — competitors — frequently follow Apple’s lead to compete directly, we’ve been witnessing a decrease in repairable devices not only with Apple, but also with laptop, all-in-one, and mobile products made by Apple competitors. This is also not news.

The cryptographic component, in spite of the questionable claim this makes Macs less appealing to steal, doesn’t really hold water when even trivial parts like hall-effect sensors, keyboard assemblies, and displays don’t have any meaningful relationship with the personal data stored on, say, a MacBook Air. Moreover, were those components not paired cryptographically, Macs would not be much more appealing, as a theft would require a new logic board. Salvageable parts might be worth something, but this is only the case when Apple, by contract, have vendors which supply components (like LG’s and Samgung’s displays) to agree not to sell those replacement parts on the repair/third-party market, in perpetuity — even after an Apple product is “obsoleted”.

To no one’s surprise around here, I’m posting this from one of the scores of Mac models which Apple designate as “obsoleted”. It’s also one of the many obsoleted models which can run a patched versions of the current three macOS builds: my steadfast late 2011 13-inch MBP. Others on here have had remarkbale results running even less powerful, less-appointed Macs from the same era on the currently-supported macOS builds.

That community patching projects to side-step Apple’s official terminus got underway, in earnest, back in 2016, from Sierra to present day (with earlier work to get Mountain Lion on Lion-capped systems meriting honourable mention), highlights the problematic of Apple obsoleting OSes once one build drops from the “supported ‘trinity’” and obsoleting models at the very moment no jurisdiction on the planet holds them liable for continuing parts availability and service support (i.e., California, France and, I think, one other nation-state).

The problematic is it accelerates consumption and e-waste generation, and coaxes (some rather large) competitors to follow.

I’m aware the quiet part of Apple’s loud, “our products are almost entirely recyclable” and “our products are cryptographically secure”, is: “shareholders who have so healthily benefited from iDevice and App Store fee revenue would revolt at our commitment to sell fewer Macs, iPads, etc. per annum, were we to design them to last, be serviceable for far longer, and also to have current OS support for years, even into a second decade. So we don’t, and we won’t — unless regulators compel us to. Should that improbable fate actually happen, we’ll manage a workaround for it.”

I’m probably going to start referring to this more often as compelled consumption — in that once an Apple consumer is brought within the walled garden (does anything actually grow in there?) and finds themselves compelled to upgrade their hardware as Apple dictates as the price of not being pushed out, they get left with scant choice beyond either acquiesing or, more disruptively, dropping the commitment and disrupting their productivity as they migrate from the garden’s thorny bounds to somewhere else.

So yah. I know this post is singing to a small choir. Reviewing evidence-based findings of e-waste getting (predictably) worse and not mitigating has me, again, side-eyeing the multi-trillion-dollar corporation which once engineered a reasonably modular, parts-replacebale, highly extensible unibody MacBook Pro whose form factor was succesful enough to be kept available for sale for eight years. I’m also aware some of the unibody and rMBP designers and engineers left Apple to join start-up frame.work to create a modular-based system for laptops premised on the same aluminium unibody foundation.

Said corporation now reject that objective, and their sway compels other major tech companies follow in kind if they wish to be competitive.

Between that and the community of folks continuing to use early Intel Macs (and, yes, even Hackintoshes) and finding it’s not especially cumbersome to set up and use, idk, Sonoma on a mid-2007 iMac (with Penryn CPU upgrade) and to do so nearly as smoothly as running earlier macOS/OS X builds on the same? I’m marking my disappointment — in vain, like a train — once more.

And so it goes. :|

Maybe a useful discussion might come of this, idk. But th report is a good read-through if you have the moment. Cheers.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
As long as people are willing to keep paying without asking questions, or at least while handwaving the problem away this will continue.

A long time ago, well before the EIM subforum, I was disappointed to learn that Apple had gone to a unibody construction of their Macs. At the time, having been quite a few years into reviving older Macs, swapping parts, etc I was not happy to see the new trend towards less user accessible repairs.

Most of my PC years were spent modifying and building computers and Apple has slowly been denying users that ability and eventually clamping it down with 'security'. Admittedly, my problem with this stems from lack of access instead of an environmental concern, but in both instances it's just wrong.

A big part of my enjoyment of computers and other tech is in modifying it and expanding it. Sometimes that shows you where the limits are and sometimes it shows you that you're not even close. But I'm not into giving money to a company that denies me.

I have no loyalty to Apple or to any other company. From 2003 to now I have bought Apple products because they work for me, not because I am loyal to the brand. And as I've said many times before, at a certain point, it appears I will be switching back to PCs and probably Linux - at least for however long Linux continues to allow access. But, building PCs is still a thing, even if the old way Windows used to function isn't anymore.

There won't be any ceremony - I'll just leave. Apple doesn't own me (and I am NOT saying it owns you or anyone else reading this) and I owe them nothing. My exit strategy with my iPhone has already been acted on once before and it worked without an issue. I don't see any problems swapping computers.
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
As long as people are willing to keep paying without asking questions, or at least while handwaving the problem away this will continue.

🙃

A long time ago, well before the EIM subforum, I was disappointed to learn that Apple had gone to a unibody construction of their Macs. At the time, having been quite a few years into reviving older Macs, swapping parts, etc I was not happy to see the new trend towards less user accessible repairs.

It’s interesting you mention that.

When I saw my first unibody in person (a late ’08 MacBook in December 2008, at a photography store, of all places), I was horrified: first, by the spread-form keyboard from the black/white MacBook and A1243 keyboard; and second, realizing that also meant changing to a different localized keyboard meant replacing the top case.

(I really, really did not like the spread-key keyboard concept. I did acclimate to it, but it has remained always one step beneath the aluminium PB/MBP keys and iBook keys, with the PB/MBP keys being the tip-top, low-profile Apple keyboard ever. I sometimes wondered why those keys couldn’t have been spun off to a standalone keyboard, but maybe one ended up existing in another multiverse.)

Most of my PC years were spent modifying and building computers and Apple has slowly been denying users that ability and eventually clamping it down with 'security'. Admittedly, my problem with this stems from lack of access instead of an environmental concern, but in both instances it's just wrong.

I concur. Both points have merit, even as priority may vary according to the user.

I conjecture there’s a kind of nihilism, maybe even a cynicism which goes into releasing, absent the CPU/GPU, a marginally inferior successor product, then selling its superficial, but composite package (“the product”) as a great leap forward — yet eliding all mention of how supporting elements within, to elevate past models to a valued place among longtime Apple, users was stripped out, locked down, glued shut, non-replaceable-if-damaged, and not going to last as long owing to a hard wall on official system support. It’s an ugly way to think through an product idea.

Apparently, some of Apple’s own laptop designers reached a place where they were, like, “This is going in a direction I’d rather not facilitate.” Then they joined frame.work.

A big part of my enjoyment of computers and other tech is in modifying it and expanding it. Sometimes that shows you where the limits are and sometimes it shows you that you're not even close. But I'm not into giving money to a company that denies me.

Absolutely! The wonder and beauty of modification, self-repair, and expansion is the learning experience which ushered generations of people to better understand how the thing they used actually worked (and how to make it even better).

I have no loyalty to Apple or to any other company. From 2003 to now I have bought Apple products because they work for me, not because I am loyal to the brand. And as I've said many times before, at a certain point, it appears I will be switching back to PCs and probably Linux - at least for however long Linux continues to allow access. But, building PCs is still a thing, even if the old way Windows used to function isn't anymore.

Along with a withering desire for brand loyalty, much less conspicuous brand loyalty (something I just don’t like to do), my interest in tinkering with a linux distro feels more appealing as time moves on. My hope is I’ll finally make that migration in full, leaving me to just focus on the generic commodity of the technology going into the system I daily drive and on the work itself once that computer is assembled and running.

I get this is an atypical way of doing things for many, but I’m also not neurotypical and never have learnt something by starting on page one and proceeding in linear form to the next page.


There won't be any ceremony - I'll just leave. Apple doesn't own me (and I am NOT saying it owns you or anyone else reading this) and I owe them nothing. My exit strategy with my iPhone has already been acted on once before and it worked without an issue. I don't see any problems swapping computers.

Indeed. Indeed.
 
Last edited:

Supermallet

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2014
1,984
2,199
Stuff like this is why I’m paying attention to Asahi Linux for Apple Silicon. If there ever comes a time I feel I need to move away from Mac, I’m hoping I’ll be able to pivot to Linux on the same hardware I’m already using. Figuring out how to replace my phone would be tougher as I’m adamant about not using devices so reliant on Google software and services.
 

swamprock

macrumors 65816
Aug 2, 2015
1,266
1,839
Michigan
Stuff like this is why I’m paying attention to Asahi Linux for Apple Silicon. If there ever comes a time I feel I need to move away from Mac, I’m hoping I’ll be able to pivot to Linux on the same hardware I’m already using. Figuring out how to replace my phone would be tougher as I’m adamant about not using devices so reliant on Google software and services.

I'm still awaiting a good Linux phone... patiently...
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
It's really a wasteland if you don't want Apple or Google to power your phone.

It raises the question of why we want a society which is dependent on smartphones with all-glass UIs, to the point of it being a basic requirement of functioning in this civil society.

Their convenience proposition, proposed in ’07 with the iPhone, has much larger, long-tail costs overshadowing those benefits — some of which are only just becoming clearer, particularly so since 2020.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,270
5,677
London, UK
It's really a wasteland if you don't want Apple or Google to power your phone.

There are basic, low-cost cellular phones that allow you to escape their grip but the smartphone market is an entirely different matter, of course. Although I have an iPhone (which I purchased cheap, faulty and I repaired it), I object to their price and in the case of Android, I object to the covert cost that comes with using a product that's so heavily intertwined with Google.

This documentary about the practices of Google (and Facebook) was particularly eye-opening. Ironically, we're able to view it using a subsidiary of Google...


It raises the question of why we want a society which is dependent on smartphones with all-glass UIs, to the point of it being a basic requirement of functioning in this civil society.

Their convenience proposition, proposed in ’07 with the iPhone, has much larger, long-tail costs overshadowing those benefits — some of which are only just becoming clearer, particularly so since 2020.

This week, a family member visited me and frantically asked if I could repair their iPhone. I determined that it had reached the point of no return and instead, I purchased a brand new smartphone for them. They were extremely anxious that without a working handset they'd miss impending calls asking them to attend a series of hospital appointments which were being offered literally at the final hour and which required immediate confirmation of availability because of the small window involved.

24 years ago, people were bemused that I didn't own a cellular phone - today that would be nigh-on impossible.
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
24 years ago, people were bemused that I didn't own a cellular phone - today that would be nigh-on impossible.

Twenty-four years ago, I tried out a mobile phone for the first time — not to replace my land line, but to be able to phone outbound when I wasn’t at home and couldn’t get back home for a long while.

I had it for about a year. It came in useful on Tuesday, the 11th of September, as I was barely in my home from maybe an hour after the second tower came down to sometime well after midnight. I had stopped at least five or six different places as the day dragged on.

I gave a mobile phone a second try about two years later. Again, I had a land line and wasn’t replacing it. It came in useful for the briefest of calls to set up a place to meet friends and, also, on a single, cross-country road trip long planned.

When I began uni, that’s when it was clear the means to have a land line and a mobile phone was going to be a challenge, as by then (2005), people used mobile phones for T9-styled texting to, again, set up where and when to meet up with people on campus. Also, the housing in which I lived was no longer wired for a land line. So that basically upended the paradigm, whether I wanted it or not.

Even after iPhone (2007) and Android (2008) arrived, I declined ans stuck to “candy bar” handsets and BlackBerry-messenging handsets (this is Canada, after all). Only when 2011 rolled around, and my last BlackBerry candy bar phone began having issues, did I — under calamity of distress (sorry, gratuitous hyperbole) — did I concede the “smartphone” age was not one I could avoid much longer, as more services locally began pushing into always-on, always-around apps. The compromise I made was the Android device I got featured a portrait-sliding physical keyboard. The slow processor in it notwithstanding, it was probably the last phone I actually “liked” — much less tolerated voluntarily.

What heartens me, even if it’s just a flash in the pan, are Gen Z and Gen Alpha folks “discovering” the land line experience for the first (and also the full-duplex voice calls which land lines afforded). It may be too little, too late, but it does suggest that people who’ve only ever had the mobile paradigm from before they could even talk want to grow beyond that, as one does when coming into their own.

Also, when trying to describe how phone calls were different and why we preferred them in the age of land line-to-land line calling, it’s something they can’t begin to grasp until that “a-ha” moment of “oh wow, I can hear and speak at the same time, like on a video call, but without dropped packets or on-the-fly down-sampling to low-bitrate codecs!”

There really was no optional aspect of the glass phone once 2FA became a required thing for, basically, the core functions of daily life — banking being one of the big ones.

I am left so, so disappointed.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
Figuring out how to replace my phone would be tougher as I’m adamant about not using devices so reliant on Google software and services.
Google software and services are what allowed me to use my iPhone 5 with my PowerBook G4. I've given Google the minimal amount of info required, but the convenience of their services being cross platform still allows me to use my iPhone without being bound to Apple and forced to upgrade.

I am as wary of Apple however as others are of Google. If people truly believe that Apple will not one day put the shareholders above the customer they are in for it. I won't be shocked or surprised when that happens.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
It raises the question of why we want a society which is dependent on smartphones with all-glass UIs, to the point of it being a basic requirement of functioning in this civil society.

Their convenience proposition, proposed in ’07 with the iPhone, has much larger, long-tail costs overshadowing those benefits — some of which are only just becoming clearer, particularly so since 2020.
Most people don't like to think. It requires energy that is either better served elsewhere or that they don't want to expend. It's better to let others do the thinking for them. This is why Apple always trumpets security and trust. You can believe them! /s

People who let others do their thinking for them have many excuses for this, none of those being an actual reason. But that's what it comes down to. They do not wish to think. They want to be told. It makes life easier.

Herd mentality.
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
Most people don't like to think.

For my entire life, I have never understood why so many people end up like that.

It requires energy that is either better served elsewhere or that they don't want to expend.

The latter. Always the latter.

It's better to let others do the thinking for them. This is why Apple always trumpets security and trust. You can believe them! /s

People who let others do their thinking for them have many excuses for this, none of those being an actual reason. But that's what it comes down to. They do not wish to think. They want to be told. It makes life easier.

Milgram’s 37.


Herd mentality.

::sigh:: ::resigned exhale and making a lazy-sounding raspberry::
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
Twenty-four years ago, I tried out a mobile phone for the first time — not to replace my land line, but to be able to phone outbound when I wasn’t at home and couldn’t get back home for a long while.

I had it for about a year. It came in useful on Tuesday, the 11th of September, as I was barely in my home from maybe an hour after the second tower came down to sometime well after midnight. I had stopped at least five or six different places as the day dragged on.

I gave a mobile phone a second try about two years later. Again, I had a land line and wasn’t replacing it. It came in useful for the briefest of calls to set up a place to meet friends and, also, on a single, cross-country road trip long planned.

When I began uni, that’s when it was clear the means to have a land line and a mobile phone was going to be a challenge, as by then (2005), people used mobile phones for T9-styled texting to, again, set up where and when to meet up with people on campus. Also, the housing in which I lived was no longer wired for a land line. So that basically upended the paradigm, whether I wanted it or not.

Even after iPhone (2007) and Android (2008) arrived, I declined ans stuck to “candy bar” handsets and BlackBerry-messenging handsets (this is Canada, after all). Only when 2011 rolled around, and my last BlackBerry candy bar phone began having issues, did I — under calamity of distress (sorry, gratuitous hyperbole) — did I concede the “smartphone” age was not one I could avoid much longer, as more services locally began pushing into always-on, always-around apps. The compromise I made was the Android device I got featured a portrait-sliding physical keyboard. The slow processor in it notwithstanding, it was probably the last phone I actually “liked” — much less tolerated voluntarily.

What heartens me, even if it’s just a flash in the pan, are Gen Z and Gen Alpha folks “discovering” the land line experience for the first (and also the full-duplex voice calls which land lines afforded). It may be too little, too late, but it does suggest that people who’ve only ever had the mobile paradigm from before they could even talk want to grow beyond that, as one does when coming into their own.

Also, when trying to describe how phone calls were different and why we preferred them in the age of land line-to-land line calling, it’s something they can’t begin to grasp until that “a-ha” moment of “oh wow, I can hear and speak at the same time, like on a video call, but without dropped packets or on-the-fly down-sampling to low-bitrate codecs!”

There really was no optional aspect of the glass phone once 2FA became a required thing for, basically, the core functions of daily life — banking being one of the big ones.

I am left so, so disappointed.
I think we ditched our landline around 2004 or 2005. I saw no sense in paying Qwest $50 a month when I was paying for two lines (my wife and I) on cellular. We could be reached anywhere, didn't have to keep replacing digital answering machines and since we had different numbers neither of us were dealing with calls for each other. And best of all, bill collectors could be sent directly to VM.

Having grown up with landlines, I can understand your viewpoint - but this is not anything I ever wish to go back to. My kids are Gen-Z, but they seem mainly to deal with messaging and do extremely little to no calling. My daughter would probably try to knife you if you told her she couldn't text and had to make a landline call.

I get the current desire out there for flip phones and simpler technology and distraction free working, etc, etc. I'm just never going to participate. I got connected in 1984 and that's why of those 'over my dead body' kind of things before I'll ever let go.

No offense in any of that to you, just my opinion on this is all.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
For my entire life, I have never understood why so many people end up like that.
Laziness. Plus, if someone else makes the choice for you and the choice is wrong, you can rain down righteous fire from heaven upon them and feel justified in doing so.

As opposed to a negative feeling of having made the wrong choice yourself.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Scepticalscribe

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
Laziness.

I mean to say: I have never understood that world view, that vantage, from the very outset of my basic self-awareness as a toddler.

Why that’s the case for me is something I’ll never be able to confirm definitively, but no doubt my picking up I was different in several ways from most kids around me (and, well, most adults whilst I was still a kid) probably attuned my brain forcefully and promptly with a realization of knowing I would have to sort of wend through life’s questions and topics on my own.

No mould of me survives. It was destroyed the minute I was born.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,270
5,677
London, UK
Google software and services are what allowed me to use my iPhone 5 with my PowerBook G4. I've given Google the minimal amount of info required, but the convenience of their services being cross platform still allows me to use my iPhone without being bound to Apple and forced to upgrade.

Can you elaborate about this please? I'd like to know more about this set up and how it works for you.

I am as wary of Apple however as others are of Google. If people truly believe that Apple will not one day put the shareholders above the customer they are in for it. I won't be shocked or surprised when that happens.

Given the very angle of @B S Magnet opening post, Apple's direction of late and the news snippet that I saw on TV this evening that the DOJ is considering anti-trust action against them, it appears that this has already come to pass.
 
Last edited:

Amethyst1

macrumors G3
Oct 28, 2015
9,829
12,246
There are basic, low-cost cellular phones that allow you to escape their grip [...]
And basic high-cost cellular phones that allow you to give the smartphone experience, but not its cost, the finger. "I can literally afford not owning a smartphone."

in the case of Android, I object to the covert cost that comes with using a product that's so heavily intertwined with Google.
If you're referring to constantly bleeding data to the mothership, an AOSP-distro like LineageOS (or even Replicant) without Gapps and an alternative "app store" may be worth checking out. It's a shame none of the alternatives out there are "true" alternatives in terms of app availability.
 
Last edited:

Supermallet

macrumors 68000
Sep 19, 2014
1,984
2,199
Google software and services are what allowed me to use my iPhone 5 with my PowerBook G4. I've given Google the minimal amount of info required, but the convenience of their services being cross platform still allows me to use my iPhone without being bound to Apple and forced to upgrade.

I am as wary of Apple however as others are of Google. If people truly believe that Apple will not one day put the shareholders above the customer they are in for it. I won't be shocked or surprised when that happens.
I won’t be shocked or surprised when it happens, but I know that Google is already nefarious, which is worse than Apple being only potentially nefarious. However I have no illusions that at some point I will want or need to switch from Apple and when that time comes I hope there is a viable alternative for smartphones aside from Google.
 

B S Magnet

macrumors 603
Original poster
And basic high-cost cellular phones that allow you to give the smartphone experience, but not its cost, the finger. "I can literally afford not owning a smartphone."

The premiumization of products is a physical manifestation of the economic driver facilitating the gentrification of public spaces. There is an insidiousness to it — namely, the contemporary rejection of the everyday, the quotidian, the functional. These can all come in an effective, thoughtful manner, and do so affordably and accessibly.

The trouble, as with the premiumization of city real estate space and premium start-ups, is the nature of who’s dumping their investments into the launches: they want high-yield, large returns. Starting by going upmarket, to make more per unit (or parcel), is preferred over making many but yielding a smaller share per unit.

This wouldn’t be so troublesome were it not for the planned obsolescence tactic propagating over to nearly every durable good which should last for much, much longer — not unlike a well-made film SLR camera from 50 or 75 years ago. Good quality and good design can have a higher entry to pay, but those should also be able to last for a good, long while.


If you're referring to constantly bleeding data to the mothership, an AOSP-distro like LineageOS (or even Replicant) without Gapps and an alternative "app store" may be worth checking out. It's a shame none of the alternatives out there are "true" alternatives in terms of app availability.

This is what I use: Lineage OS, receiving monthly security updates, for a long-unsupported model and make of phone. It’s slow by 2024 standards, but I also don’t use a browser on it very often (I will always be partial to browsers on a computer screen). I only wish Fairphone had been available around North America these last five years, because that would have been my replacement.
 

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
Can you elaborate about this please? I'd like to know more about this set up and how it works for you.
So not ALL of my services are Google, but it started that way.

2012 and Apple cuts off iTunes syncing with lightning based iPhones. And I have (then) a brand new iPhone 5 with a lightning port. I was all ready to jump fully into the Apple ecosystem and Apple cut me off.

At the time I had Entourage 2008 on my Macs. But I couldn't sync contacts or calendars between my phone and my PowerBook. That got everything started.

Entourage 2008 synced with the system, but the system wouldn't sync with Google. Eventually, through trial and error over the course of a couple of years and various freebie apps (and a bunch of, ahem, Googling) I got it all working. I also discovered that the default for accounts on the iPhone (contacts, email, calendars, and so on) is 'On my iPhone'. Which was one of the reasons syncing to my PowerBook never worked. You can pull from that - only push to the device, or at least that's how it worked then.

Here's how it all breaks down. For almost every Apple offering, Google has an app/service. So, I use those in the following way:

Calendars - Google Calendar
Contacts - Google Contacts
Books - Google Books (I have stuff in there, I just don't read it much as it's basically all reference stuff)
Notes - Google Keep
Maps - Google Maps

All of this is linked to my Google Account. I have Gmail too, but I rarely use it. So, if on any device that does not have my account set up all I need to do is go to, calendar.google.com, keep.google.com, contacts.google.com, etc. Login and everything is right there. If I want it permanent, just add the apps or accounts and login. Doesn't matter what device.

Google Photos is one service though I do NOT use - or at least seriously. I was with Dropbox before Google Photos and Dropbox handles other files too. With automatic upload from the Camera Roll my photos go to all my Macs. And I use Dropbox instead of Files for that reason. Anything on Dropbox is accessible to anything that can load or run Dropbox.

All mail accounts on my phone are IMAP. So, just a matter of adding my email account to any device. Bang, all my email right there. I already had email accounts (multiple accounts) when I got my first iCloud account so there's never been any reason to use my iCloud mail for much.

Lastly, I have a 2TB sub with iCloud for convenience (not backup). I just want the convenience of restoring everything from one source. I don't need to, but it's nice to have. Everything is primarily stored elsewhere.

Since my Macs are backed up nightly and weekly, that includes the Dropbox folder. So anything in the Camera Roll that gets uploaded to Dropbox gets backed up again in a sparse disk image - both on my NAS for daily and up to Dropbox itself on weekends.

Here's my NAS for nightly backups:

Screen Shot 2024-03-21 at 16.54.10.jpg

And the Backups folder inside my Dropbox folder on my MacPro. I have this folder hidden to all other Macs/PCs that use the Dropbox app, because I don't need them downloading gigs of sparseimages to their own drives. I use the MP for restores so only it needs to have access to that folder on Dropbox. Backups from all other Macs/PCs are done to this folder by sharing the drive it's on (from the MP) and those happen on weekends.

Screen Shot 2024-03-21 at 16.55.50.jpg

All this comes down to this. If you hand me a new device, I just add accounts and apps. By doing so all my email, contacts, calendars, notes, books, iMessages and photos come rolling into the device. When I went to my Pixel, it was simply a matter of the transfer app in the setup getting stuff like messages. Since all the accounts were Google/Dropbox that stuff just was 'there' when I added the accounts.

That's the same exact way I came back to iOS when I got my iPhone 11PM in 2021. Added accounts, photos from Dropbox, transfer app took care of messages.

Finally, nothing important is ever left on my phone. It's either sent up to Dropbox or transferred directly. For sensitive stuff, there is no record because I talk to people in person. As I am fond of saying, my device could be wiped and everything would be restorable. In fact, I had to do just that when replacing my 11PM in May 2022. iCloud didn't restore all my photos. I had to go to all my backups. Photos are accessible on my RAID drive because periodically I dump all the photos from the Dropbox Camera Uploads folder into it.

Screen Shot 2024-03-21 at 16.58.34.jpg
 
Last edited:

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,270
5,677
London, UK
Thanks for the break down @eyoungren! I knew it would be interesting. :)

My family member whose iPhone died on them recently had said that they'd been unable to access their GMAIL account using the Mail app since 2022/23. From what you've described, would they have been able to do so with the GMAIL app instead?
 
Last edited:

eyoungren

macrumors Penryn
Aug 31, 2011
29,662
28,437
Thanks for the break down @eyoungren! I knew it would it be interesting. :)

My family member whose iPhone died on them recently had said that they'd been unable to access their GMAIL account using the Mail app since 2022/23. From what you've described, would they have been able to do so with the GMAIL app instead?
That's…difficult to answer. I can get the Gmail app on to my iPhone 6 Plus running iOS 12, but Google will not allow me to add the account. On my 6s Plus (iOS 15) and my 11PM I can still use Gmail in the Mail app.

I just really don't use Gmail (for personal use) so I'm not up on all the account security hoops Google makes you jump through. My employer does use Gmail, but with our own domain so not sure how that works either. Again, no problems with it on iOS 15/iOS 17.
 

TheShortTimer

macrumors 68040
Mar 27, 2017
3,270
5,677
London, UK
That's…difficult to answer. I can get the Gmail app on to my iPhone 6 Plus running iOS 12, but Google will not allow me to add the account. On my 6s Plus (iOS 15) and my 11PM I can still use Gmail in the Mail app.

I just really don't use Gmail (for personal use) so I'm not up on all the account security hoops Google makes you jump through. My employer does use Gmail, but with our own domain so not sure how that works either. Again, no problems with it on iOS 15/iOS 17.

Understood. :)

I'll have to dig out my iPhone 6 (I can't remember its iOS) and play around with Gmail and see what happens.
 
  • Like
Reactions: Amethyst1

splifingate

macrumors 68000
Nov 27, 2013
1,922
1,711
ATL
I mean to say: I have never understood that world view, that vantage, from the very outset of my basic self-awareness as a toddler.

Why that’s the case for me is something I’ll never be able to confirm definitively, but no doubt my picking up I was different in several ways from most kids around me (and, well, most adults whilst I was still a kid) probably attuned my brain forcefully and promptly with a realization of knowing I would have to sort of wend through life’s questions and topics on my own.

No mould of me survives. It was destroyed the minute I was born.

"They broke the mould before they made you." :)
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.