It's like we're waiting for...

[aaronhead14]

It's like we're waiting for The Messiah or something. Seriously, why the heck is Apple taking so long to release a new freaking Mac Pro?? This situation is beyond ridiculous!
Tim, just make it already. It's really not that hard. Hackintoshers do it all the time. But I want a real Mac Pro!

 

[h9826790]

My feeling is that the Mac Pro line is dead. What we are waiting for is just our current MP unable to function any more, then we have to accept that we have no choice but downgrade to a notebook / desktop form factor notebook / iPad…

If we want a real upgrade, as you said, Hackintosh is the way to go.

 

[kennyisalive]

Ironically, the more people switch to a Windows Workstation, the sooner we'll see a Mac Pro refresh.

The only way these bastards will ever listen is if you start voting with your wallet

 

[h9826790]

Ironically, the more people switch to a Windows Workstation, the sooner we'll see a Mac Pro refresh.

The only way these bastards will ever listen is if you start voting with your wallet

Only if they still still care the Mac Pro's sales volume. IMO, Apple doesn't care anymore.

If more people switch to Android, they will release a better iPhone ASAP.

If more people switch to PC, they may release an iMac / Macbook sooner.

If more people switch to Hackintosh, most likely they will promote a new watch / headphone..., but not the Mac Pro.

 

[kschendel]

It's like we're waiting for The Messiah or something. Seriously, why the heck is Apple taking so long to release a new freaking Mac Pro??

If you want a real Mac Pro, you probably want one with real memory in it -- i.e. ECC -- which means Xeons.

Which Intel haven't updated yet.

 

[AidenShaw]

If you want a real Mac Pro, you probably want one with real memory in it -- i.e. ECC -- which means Xeons.

Which Intel haven't updated yet.

Apple is putting E5-v2 (Ivy Bridge) in the MP6,1. These were launched in Q3 of 2013.

In Q3 of 2014, Intel launched E5-v3 (Haswell).

In Q1 of 2016, Intel launched E5-v4 (Broadwell).

Intel's been updating, but Apple hasn't.

 

[kschendel]

I suppose both Haswell and Broadwell were advances, but neither one was all that compelling IMO. Kaby Lake isn't either, but the jump from Ivy Bridge to Kaby Lake would be enough to get me to spend money. (Or, in my case, the jump from Westmere to Kaby Lake.)

Yes, Intel's been updating, but they aren't keeping up and the updates are pretty darn half-hearted if you ask me.

I'm not absolving Apple, but this notion that Apple could put out a new Pro that would be Ever So Much Faster and Better If Only They Cared, is just ... overwrought.

(Interestingly, we see some of the same where's-my-new-design nonsense among the aviation fanboi crowd. There, of course, the reality stumbling block is engines.)

 

[beaker7]

I suppose both Haswell and Broadwell were advances, but neither one was all that compelling IMO. Kaby Lake isn't either, but the jump from Ivy Bridge to Kaby Lake would be enough to get me to spend money. (Or, in my case, the jump from Westmere to Kaby Lake.)

Yes, Intel's been updating, but they aren't keeping up and the updates are pretty darn half-hearted if you ask me.

I'm not absolving Apple, but this notion that Apple could put out a new Pro that would be Ever So Much Faster and Better If Only They Cared, is just ... overwrought.

(Interestingly, we see some of the same where's-my-new-design nonsense among the aviation fanboi crowd. There, of course, the reality stumbling block is engines.)

I've updated the CPUs on my workstations from v2, to v3, to v4 and the speed bump has been worth it each time.

If you're seriously still using Westmere though I don't expect you to care about performance.

 

[joebclash]

Yes, Intel's been updating, but they aren't keeping up and the updates are pretty darn half-hearted if you ask me...

If you consider Intel's updates half-hearted then what do you consider apple's non macpro update efforts? The ipad air 1 to ipad air 2 update doesn't seem major to me but apple still did it. This just shows apple has no interest in the mac pro market.

 

[aedigitaltv]

I've updated the CPUs on my workstations from v2, to v3, to v4 and the speed bump has been worth it each time.

On your 2013 Mac Pro's?

 

[Kcetech1]

On your 2013 Mac Pro's?

Probably like me, in our non Apple servers. we just board swapped some V2 to V4's ( boards, CPU, RAM. same chasis, drives, PSU etc ) and it was a nice 30-40% speed bump, maybe more.

the mobile V5's are nice little monsters too!!

 

[beaker7]

On your 2013 Mac Pro's?

no, of course not. Switched to windows workstations when Apple abandoned the pro market.

Do have a few Mac Pro's around for nostalgic purposes, including a 2013, but they go months without being used.

 

[JronMasteR]

It's just sad Apple abandoning the pro market. Which they did when they ditched the classic Mac Pro design.
In my view, those machines were amazing and was what most professionals wanted.

 

[aedigitaltv]

no, of course not. Switched to windows workstations when Apple abandoned the pro market.

Figured... just wanted to ask and make sure there was no way to upgrade the trash can CPU's after all the heat failures. Sad to see Apple looking at the pro market with "Rose Colored" glasses and not keeping up with current hardware offerings.

 

[now i see it]

Both the fanless G4 Cube & the fan cooled TrashCan were Steve's idea and both ended up having cooling issues. Perhaps Apple now has learned that you can't cram "high performance" into a minuscule enclosure and expect everything to be all hunky dory.

 

[AidenShaw]

Figured... just wanted to ask and make sure there was no way to upgrade the trash can CPU's after all the heat failures. Sad to see Apple looking at the pro market with "Rose Colored" glasses and not keeping up with current hardware offerings.

Have there been an unusual rate of CPU failures on the MP6,1? I thought that the GPUs have had a horrible failure rate, but didn't know about CPU failures.

Intel CPUs are pretty good about throttling back if temperatures get too high.

 

[aedigitaltv]

Have there been an unusual rate of CPU failures on the MP6,1? I thought that the GPUs have had a horrible failure rate, but didn't know about CPU failures.

Intel CPUs are pretty good about throttling back if temperatures get too high.

Correct, more GPU failure then CPU. When exporting 4K files out of Premiere, the CPU's will peg out in the activity monitor and probably overheat the GPU's introducing lines into the exported files. Strange thing, when you do the same test in FCPX, the CPU's don't get pegged out and heat up the nMP GPU's as bad and introduce lines into the exported 4K files.

 

[itdk92]

Have there been an unusual rate of CPU failures on the MP6,1? I thought that the GPUs have had a horrible failure rate, but didn't know about CPU failures.

Intel CPUs are pretty good about throttling back if temperatures get too high.

I can tell you that a friend of a friend confirms a higher-than-usual rate of GPU failures in the nMP, especially D500 and D700s.

We discussed about it last week.

Didn't even hear about CPU failures though.

 

[aedigitaltv]

Going through another D700 GPU failure right now on one of our edit systems. Had the GPU's replaced by Apple a few months ago, so figured it would last till the next hardware update. NOT!!

 

[itdk92]

Going through another D700 GPU failure right now on one of our edit systems. Had the GPU's replaced by Apple a few months ago, so figured it would last till the next hardware update. NOT!!

Yeah it's very bad..

I thought you were using 5.1s though?

 

[AidenShaw]

Correct, more GPU failure then CPU. When exporting 4K files out of Premiere, the CPU's will peg out in the activity monitor and probably overheat the GPU's introducing lines into the exported files. Strange thing, when you do the same test in FCPX, the CPU's don't get pegged out and heat up the nMP GPU's as bad and introduce lines into the exported 4K files.

That doesn't sound like a CPU issue. (Replacing the CPUs won't fix it.)

It sounds like an overall system cooling issue - where a CPU operating within its normal parameters causes the GPUs to fail because of bad thermal design.

An Apple/ATI problem, not an Intel problem.

 

[aaronhead14]

I suppose both Haswell and Broadwell were advances, but neither one was all that compelling IMO. Kaby Lake isn't either, but the jump from Ivy Bridge to Kaby Lake would be enough to get me to spend money. (Or, in my case, the jump from Westmere to Kaby Lake.)

Yes, Intel's been updating, but they aren't keeping up and the updates are pretty darn half-hearted if you ask me.

I'm not absolving Apple, but this notion that Apple could put out a new Pro that would be Ever So Much Faster and Better If Only They Cared, is just ... overwrought.

(Interestingly, we see some of the same where's-my-new-design nonsense among the aviation fanboi crowd. There, of course, the reality stumbling block is engines.)

No, it's not "overwrought." Let's pretend for a minute that there weren't any CPU upgrades over the past 4 years (even though there have been). A GPU upgrade, at the very least, is something Mac Pro users have been longing for. Those stupid D300s and D700s are essentially unusable for 2017's filmmaking workflows. Color grading 8K R3Ds on dual D700s? HAH! Such a joke!

 

[aedigitaltv]

Yeah it's very bad..

I thought you were using 5.1s though?

Have both types of systems deployed. 5,1's have GTX980ti's in them to get Premiere to run smoother. Don't have the export issues on the 5,1's thankfully, but they are getting long in the tooth with each OS and Adobe update. Have had failures on nMP's with both D500's and D700's. Apple replaced the GPU's and Ram Risers under warranty, but still failing again and again.

 

[flyinmac]

While each generation of CPU updates might not have been huge gains over the prior generations, it isn't good business to skip implementation of the new generations.

As pointed out, the difference between 4 generations can be huge. The incremental steps of each generation being implemented helps to keep the machines relevant.

Otherwise, you end up with a machine that has skipped 2 or 3 generations, and is now way behind where it should be.

There would be less complaints if the nMac Pro were only waiting on Kant Lake. At least then it wouldn't be 4 years obsolete and it would still be a significant improvement over the 2013 model.

And at the very least, incremental increases provide the opportunity to tweak the design of the machine to improve things like reliability, thermal problems, etc.

Instead, 4 years later, we still have the original 2013 design defects in brand new units being shipped.

 

[itdk92]

While each generation of CPU updates might not have been huge gains over the prior generations, it isn't good business to skip implementation of the new generations.

As pointed out, the difference between 4 generations can be huge. The incremental steps of each generation being implemented helps to keep the machines relevant.

Otherwise, you end up with a machine that has skipped 2 or 3 generations, and is now way behind where it should be.

There would be less complaints if the nMac Pro were only waiting on Kant Lake. At least then it wouldn't be 4 years obsolete and it would still be a significant improvement over the 2013 model.

And at the very least, incremental increases provide the opportunity to tweak the design of the machine to improve things like reliability, thermal problems, etc.

Instead, 4 years later, we still have the original 2013 design defects in brand new units being shipped.

But everything considered, there are actually a very small handful of people who need more than a 12 core 3.46Ghz westmere.

How many people more than a 12 core ivy bridge?

Does the new chip versions run better?

Obviously.

But *how much* do we need them?

How much extra time is wasted because of the these old westmere amd ivy bridge?

How much money is this extra time worth??

Or is this just one of our ego-kind-of upgrade? <--- Yes, I am provoking here