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It's official-No NVIDIA in the new MacPro

E

erigas

macrumors regular
Original poster
Apr 6, 2011
104
52
Atlanta GA
"Regarding the Mac Pro, Estes says NVIDIA is “very robustly in the mac market, and disappointed that we didn’t get the design with the new Mac Pro.” It is true that NVIDIA graphics are used in other Mac product lines, from the MacBook Pro to the iMac — and these are the lines that are selling for Apple."

From the article of the new K6000 quadro card in fx guide.
http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/nvidias-new-quadro-k6000/
 
erigas said:
"Regarding the Mac Pro, Estes says NVIDIA is “very robustly in the mac market, and disappointed that we didn’t get the design with the new Mac Pro.” It is true that NVIDIA graphics are used in other Mac product lines, from the MacBook Pro to the iMac — and these are the lines that are selling for Apple."

From the article of the new K6000 quadro card in fx guide.
http://www.fxguide.com/quicktakes/nvidias-new-quadro-k6000/
Click to expand...

I Believe they will get in eventually ... probably even by launch by making press statements like this so won't judge till its out.

Apple is favoring OpenCL heavily where AMD is king by a long way currently
 
And the iTube locks down even further. :mad:

KBS756 said:
I Believe they will get in eventually ... probably even by launch by making press statements like this so won't judge till its out.
Click to expand...

It takes some seriously wishful thinking to believe Nvidia will be available the Mac Pro by launch time right after reading an article where an Nvidia exec says they aren't in the Mac Pro.
 
Perhaps I don't understand the limitations as well as you all, but couldn't they mean that NVIDIA isn't in the base configuration?
 
ToomeyND said:
Perhaps I don't understand the limitations as well as you all, but couldn't they mean that NVIDIA isn't in the base configuration?
Click to expand...

Unlikely. Based on that quote and Apple documentation so far, it seems like it'll be AMD only for now.
 
High end pro graphic cards like the Quadro are a specialized niche market, especially the top $$$$ model. Why should they start a whole new production line for a tiny subset of a niche market.

They'll wait a couple of years and see if the nMP sells enough to justify the R&D and retooling investment. In the mean time they make plenty of money selling standard PCIe graphic cards to HP, DELL, BOXX, Lenovo and all the custom builder out there.
 
tuxon86 said:
High end pro graphic cards like the Quadro are a specialized niche market, especially the top $$$$ model. Why should they start a whole new production line for a tiny subset of a niche market.

They'll wait a couple of years and see if the nMP sells enough to justify the R&D and retooling investment. In the mean time they make plenty of money selling standard PCIe graphic cards to HP, DELL, BOXX, Lenovo and all the custom builder out there.
Click to expand...


Well they could just license the tech to Apple.
 
KBS756 said:
... Apple is favoring OpenCL heavily where AMD is king by a long way currently
Click to expand...
I would have liked to try my OpenCL code on AMD's GCN architecture, but I don't know that I'll be doing that any time soon!; see:

I just (<2wks ago) replaced a 5870 Mac Edition with a used GTX 570 off of ebay ... and the kernel that took over >40ms to compute on the 5870 calculates in just under 5ms on the 570. I mean, Moses on a moped!; stupid stunning fast.

... and I had spent so many hours optimizing for the 5870, including vectorizing to float4s . . . to then have it quite thoroughly blown out of the water by a card at 26% of the cost....

When the nMP comes out, I'll rent one to do some timing checks! [I can now (with the 570) do full HD (1920x1080) at 60fps, which is plenty for now, but some day more/bigger screens may be desirable.]
 
tuxon86 said:
Considering apple reputation to screw their business partners, i don't think nvidia would go for that.
Click to expand...

Don't forget about Apple's ongoing feud with Adobe!
Probably no coincidence that Nvidia is not in the nMP. Adobe using CUDA, "harnessing the power of the graphics processing unit (GPU)" was a game changer.
Nvidia just got caught in the middle of the feud! :(
 
A standard PCI-e graphics card won't fit in the new Mac Pro so it would require Nvidia to make a very specialised product. Presumably there will be Thunderbolt expander boxes providing PCI-e slots for he new Mac Pro just like the current Cubix boxes.
 
OS6-OSX said:
Don't forget about Apple's ongoing feud with Adobe!
Probably no coincidence that Nvidia is not in the nMP. Adobe using CUDA, "harnessing the power of the graphics processing unit (GPU)" was a game changer.
Nvidia just got caught in the middle of the feud! :(
Click to expand...

Of course it isn't a coincidence. AMD have to get OpenCL out there with better support and viability and it is in software/solution vendors interest to break NVIDIA's dominance. Apple are likely getting heavy discounts on the GPU solution for the new Mac Pro because of this where NVIDIA aren't willing to go; just as it is with the game console market. Adobe are also heavily backing Open CL now for the same reasons, but they have a lot less sway over the market due to just being a software company.
 
OS6-OSX said:
Don't forget about Steve's ongoing feud with Adobe!
Probably no coincidence that Nvidia is not in the nMP. Adobe using CUDA, "harnessing the power of the graphics processing unit (GPU)" was a game changer.
Nvidia just got caught in the middle of the feud! :(
Click to expand...

FTFY

I think AMD cut them a deal and they went with it, there's probably not any more to the story.
 
Last edited:
GermanyChris said:
I think AMD cut them a deal and they went with it, there's probably not any more tho the story.
Click to expand...

That's definitely part of it. Also AMD accomplishes more with less silicon and less heat, as long as you have optimized drivers and graphics code at least. This is possibly advantageous with their thermal core solution.

Finally as others have said the biggest reason is probably CUDA which Apple will never support.
 
Umbongo said:
Of course it isn't a coincidence. AMD have to get OpenCL out there with better support and viability and it is in software/solution vendors interest to break NVIDIA's dominance. Apple are likely getting heavy discounts on the GPU solution for the new Mac Pro because of this where NVIDIA aren't willing to go; just as it is with the game console market. Adobe are also heavily backing Open CL now for the same reasons, but they have a lot less sway over the market due to just being a software company.
Click to expand...

I know that you are correct in using plural verbs with "Apple", "NVIDIA", etc.

But it is jarring to my ear! My own opinion, for what it is worth, is that a noun like "Apple" can be used in BOTH the plural and singular sense. As a plural, it means a large conglomerate of people. As a singular noun, it means a large monolithic corporation.

But then, you are from England, and I am from the US. We just borrowed your language ...
 
Photovore said:
I would have liked to try my OpenCL code on AMD's GCN architecture, but I don't know that I'll be doing that any time soon!; see:

I just (<2wks ago) replaced a 5870 Mac Edition with a used GTX 570 off of ebay ... and the kernel that took over >40ms to compute on the 5870 calculates in just under 5ms on the 570. I mean, Moses on a moped!; stupid stunning fast.

... and I had spent so many hours optimizing for the 5870, including vectorizing to float4s . . . to then have it quite thoroughly blown out of the water by a card at 26% of the cost....

When the nMP comes out, I'll rent one to do some timing checks! [I can now (with the 570) do full HD (1920x1080) at 60fps, which is plenty for now, but some day more/bigger screens may be desirable.]
Click to expand...

5870 is one of the older generations of AMD cards which were based on the VLIW instruction set; 7000 series and the current FirePro Series are based on the GCN architecture so they are much stronger in compute.
 
DawgBone said:
I know that you are correct in using plural verbs with "Apple", "NVIDIA", etc.

But it is jarring to my ear! My own opinion, for what it is worth, is that a noun like "Apple" can be used in BOTH the plural and singular sense. As a plural, it means a large conglomerate of people. As a singular noun, it means a large monolithic corporation.

But then, you are from England, and I am from the US. We just borrowed your language ...
Click to expand...
What is "Wendy's" hamburgers in the US is "Wendy" in the UK, just to toss in another twist....
 
ArchAndroid said:
5870 is one of the older generations of AMD cards which were based on the VLIW instruction set; 7000 series and the current FirePro Series are based on the GCN architecture so they are much stronger in compute.
Click to expand...
Uhuh! I just wonder how much, and would rather rent than buy, just to see -- however, as the 570 can do full HD I think I'm set for now. (i)

I was stunned by getting ~9x perf out of the 570 vs the 5870; I had hoped for ~3x, based upon luxmark benches.... (and, by reported FLOPs, it should have been 10x as fast as the 330M in my laptop [same manufacturer, nVidia] ... but, it's 30x!, and ~9x the AMD card).

(i) for now, while I have to run every show myself, I'm set with my MP 4,1 and the 570. However, when this becomes a product that a sound man can run, I'll have to be able to spec a "standard" system that's sufficient, and the nMP it is, I think -- just wanna get my own numbers as obviously I can't rely on either reported theoretical FLOPs or luxmark benches! (I did try to select the ones most representative of the kind of computation I'm doing, but there's no comparison to benching your own code....)

*** I have NOT EDITED this post. I HAVE TRIED THREE TIMES to reply to DawgBone, and EACH REPLY to that other, OR EVEN a BRAND NEW POST, gets attached to THIS POST as an edit!!!!!??????? ***

Will try again to reply to the earlier post later. REALLY WEIRD!

ya know what?; I'm gonna reply to DawgBone's post above. I am NOT EDITING this post. You will see what happens....

----------

[EDIT: WHAT FOLLOWS IS ***NOT*** AN EDIT. IT IS A REPLY TO A POST ABOVE.]
DawgBone said:
I'm confused, P ...
Click to expand...
Same yellow sign, same cartoon smiling face with the red hair, but instead of "Wendy's" it says "Wendy" . . . .
 
ToomeyND said:
Perhaps I don't understand the limitations as well as you all, but couldn't they mean that NVIDIA isn't in the base configuration?
Click to expand...

erigas said:
"Regarding the Mac Pro, Estes says NVIDIA is “very robustly in the mac market, and disappointed that we didn’t get the design with the new Mac Pro.” It is true that NVIDIA graphics are used in other Mac product lines, from the MacBook Pro to the iMac — and these are the lines that are selling for Apple."
Click to expand...

After having read the linked article, my feeling was, that it is possible that Estes could have meant exactly that - that nVidia would have gladly been the base offering...

But hey, maybe we're all reading too much into a heavily cut snippet from an interview, in an article focusing on an utterly different matter...

RGDS,
 
Apple don't want CUDA to survive. They want OpenCL to take off, so that their math processing is CPU/GPU agnostic, and the same code runs and makes use of the GPU in Haswell/etc, AMD or Nvidia just as well. So that they can't be screwed by Nvidia, and they don't end up dependent on a technology that maybe doesn't evolve as fast as they may like.

Nvidia can get on the bandwagon as well or become irrelevant.
 
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