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iTunes 10.5 - Cocoa or Carbon?

ErikGrim

ErikGrim

macrumors 604
Original poster
Jun 20, 2003
6,547
5,183
Brisbane, Australia
iTunes 10.5 is a headscratcher. It runs in 64 bit, yet has the same god awful Carbon-like faux UI. Now with even fauxer Lion scrollbars. Complete without elastics and an insanely low framerate. I can literally see the steps in the fade out animation when I stop scrolling. (New SSD iMac BTW in case you think my system is at fault).

Can anyone explain these discrepancies? (First one to pipe up with "it's beta" gets the lead pipe).
 
ErikGrim said:
iTunes 10.5 is a headscratcher. It runs in 64 bit, yet has the same god awful Carbon-like faux UI. Now with even fauxer Lion scrollbars. Complete without elastics and an insanely low framerate. I can literally see the steps in the fade out animation when I stop scrolling. (New SSD iMac BTW in case you think my system is at fault).

Can anyone explain these discrepancies? (First one to pipe up with "it's beta" gets the lead pipe).
Click to expand...

Looks fine on my Early 2008 MacBook Pro.
 
robbieduncan said:
Can ou provide a screenshot of this? I've seen it stated multiple times but mine certainly is not running in 64 bit mode (as confirmed Activity Monitor).
Click to expand...

Mine runs 64bit.
 

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robbieduncan said:
Can ou provide a screenshot of this? I've seen it stated multiple times but mine certainly is not running in 64 bit mode (as confirmed Activity Monitor).
Click to expand...
There you go.
 

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robbieduncan said:
Are you guys running Snow Leopard or Lion? I am slightly confused as to why the version I downloaded from the iOS developer site is only 32 bit :confused:

In the Finder info window mine claims to be "iTunes 10.5b27". Are yours the same?
Click to expand...

Same build, running in DP4. If you notice this thread is in the Lion section.
 
bizzle said:
Same build, running in DP4. If you notice this thread is in the Lion section.
Click to expand...

Oops: did not notice as I came in via the Forum Spy :eek:

The lipo results are quite interesting:

Code: 
unknown-58-b0-35-73-32-00:MacOS robbie$ lipo -info iTunes 
Architectures in the fat file: iTunes are: ppc i386 x86_64

So clearly this version is 64-bit compatible but will not run as 64-bit on an older OS (I don't even get the "Open in 32-bit mode" option in the info window in the Finder).

The "Application priority" key in the Info.plist correctly has 64 bit before 32 bit but the "Minimum system versions, per-architecture" key indicated 64-bit mode is for 10.7 only (see attachment). This would indicate that there is a framework that is in 10.7 or is 64-bit in 10.7 that is not there in 10.6...
 

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Yes, it works as 64-bit only in Lion. I have it installed on both 10.6 and 10.7. In SL is 32 bit.
The curious thing is iTunes seems to be the only (?) Apple app which is still updated to run on G4 and G5 Macs. Is there another one?
 
Last edited:
To get back to the original question it would still seem to be Carbon (see screenshot). If you look at a pure Cocoa app (like Aperture) that Carbon key is not there.

So my conclusion is that Apple has enabled 64-bit Carbon in Lion and all that work Adobe and Microsoft did porting their huge Carbon UI codebases to Cocoa was a bit of a waste!
 

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Beavix said:
Yes, it works as 64-bit only in Lion. I have it installed on both 10.6 and 10.7. In SL is 32 bit.
The curious thing is iTunes seems to be the only (?) Apple app which is still updated to run on G4 and G5 Macs. Is there another one?
Click to expand...

Safari and Quicktime have PPC support still because of Leopard.
 
I think this might be one reason they don't want Core Solos or Core duos to work with this... so that the apps can be true 64-bit.

Just a thought...
 
robbieduncan said:
To get back to the original question it would still seem to be Carbon (see screenshot). If you look at a pure Cocoa app (like Aperture) that Carbon key is not there.

So my conclusion is that Apple has enabled 64-bit Carbon in Lion and all that work Adobe and Microsoft did porting their huge Carbon UI codebases to Cocoa was a bit of a waste!
Click to expand...

Is Adobe going to be pissed or what? :p
 
Does this beta version of iTunes have a fullscreen mode? (I figured I would have heard mention of it if it did.)
 
Wirelessly posted (iPod touch 2nd gen: Mozilla/5.0 (iPod; U; CPU iPhone OS 4_2_1 like Mac OS X; fr-fr) AppleWebKit/533.17.9 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/5.0.2 Mobile/8C148 Safari/6533.18.5)

kirky29 said:
NameUndecided said:
Does this beta version of iTunes have a fullscreen mode? (I figured I would have heard mention of it if it did.)
Click to expand...

Yep, it does.
They've also moved the traffic lights back to the top.
Click to expand...

Meh. I actually liked them on the side, it took less vertical space.
 
Maybe it's because it's paired with Lion DP4, but it runs very smoothly for me. A lot better than 10.2.2 did. :p

But I do not doubt what you are referring to is true in some cases.
 
Cromulent said:
What's wrong with it?
Click to expand...
For me it scrolling performs poorly and use a lot more CPU tan in Snow Leopard.
Actually, the issue might be that the window contents redraw at each incremental step, whereas it's more lazy in 10.6, drawing just the rectangle that become visible. Not sure if it's an intentional change, something that will be fixed, or a tradeoff they had to make, but my Macbook isn't too happy with that.
 
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